do touts actually operate this way?

EXTRAPOLATER

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Not sure if this is old, as well, Jack, but I suppose that my studies in ethics have me fascinated by corruption and dishonesty wherever they may appear. Besides, some prospective serious gamblers may want to take heed of what follows.

I have never used a tout and never would. I admit to having considered it, however, during seasons that I'm not very good at (e.g. NBA). I don't think I'd ever consider selling my picks, either, for a number of reasons. Trying to put my baseball system into a book but that's another matter.

Anyway, some information that I recently came across suggests to me the following assertion, if I'm understanding things right. Let me know if it's true. No surprise will be forthcoming from me either way.

Assertion: Touts (people who sell their picks) are working in collusion with sportsbooks in order to feed people "losers."

Need to qualify this. By definition, it would be just as difficult to pick "losers" as it is to pick "winners." For any collusion to be taking place, the books must be feeding these touts with sides that they want action on, either to balance out their incoming bets or for some other reason (taking sides themselves, perhaps, with Hendrix-knows-what type of "inside" information).

I actually can't see this being very lucrative for any participants but, again, it would not surprise me.

I've heard that some touts give some contacts one side and some another, which could also very well be true.

I mentioned corruption and dishonesty. I guess in this case it would be the touts advertising that they will supply picks with value--"winners," of course--but merely provide misleading and incomplete information. A bullshit scam, really. Books would be only secondarily responsible, in my opinion.

Somebody commented that "this is a dirty business."
I don't believe that.
I believe that both sides--gamblers and books--can conduct their business in an ethical manner. Touts are another story. No doubt some are legit. I would hesitate to guess what percentage of them qualfy for the gates of integrity.

If you need a tout then you should probably stick to the stock market.
'nuff said.
 
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Doubledown21

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Ask Raymond he is in the business. Maybe he will give a full confession and repent for his sins.
 

marine

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While it might be the "sexy" thing to think.... touts giving their clients sure losers and collecting a nice rakeback from the book for it... it just can't hold much water.

One of the reasons is, the tout doesn't know where you are making your bet. Yes, that tout may have a deal with Bookie XYZ to get 15% of your losses handed back to him... but your tout doesn't control where you bet, and it is entirely possible (and very likely) that you don't wager where he has his rakeback program.

Also, the book would have to know that you (the wagerer) are receiving picks from tout abc, in order to give that tout the appropriate kickback. Now, you say the book would know because you probably signed up to that bookie thru some sort of affiliate link... but you sign up for a book before you sign up for a tout. so that just doesn't make sense.

Yes, there are probably some instances of this happening.. but it'd be fairly hard to do.

I think it's safe to say that Raymond was just looking for an easy excuse to justify his abysmal record.
 

MadJack

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While it might be the "sexy" thing to think.... touts giving their clients sure losers and collecting a nice rakeback from the book for it... it just can't hold much water.

One of the reasons is, the tout doesn't know where you are making your bet. Yes, that tout may have a deal with Bookie XYZ to get 15% of your losses handed back to him... but your tout doesn't control where you bet, and it is entirely possible (and very likely) that you don't wager where he has his rakeback program.

Also, the book would have to know that you (the wagerer) are receiving picks from tout abc, in order to give that tout the appropriate kickback. Now, you say the book would know because you probably signed up to that bookie thru some sort of affiliate link... but you sign up for a book before you sign up for a tout. so that just doesn't make sense.

Yes, there are probably some instances of this happening.. but it'd be fairly hard to do.

I think it's safe to say that Raymond was just looking for an easy excuse to justify his abysmal record.

exactly

not to mention, it's just as hard to pick losers as it is to pick winners. no different at all.
 

EXTRAPOLATER

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Some good points, marine.
As mentioned, I can't see this being very lucrative.
Not sure if I was reading into what I read elsewhere or what.
Don't want to dredge up dumpster'ed shiite but a certain story about a sportsbooks offer to a service provider sounded like evidence for the assertion in question.

If I do ever, somehow, over the next million years, get this book finished on gambling then I'd probably be wise to include a short section on touts, so I'm interested in the matter for this reason and others.

Thanks for the responses.
I'm sure as shit not trying to simulate any more bullshit discussons.
My bad if it becomes such.
 

SixFive

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I think touts just try to be sensational and get you hooked. The losses are never mentioned, but the wins are talked up constantly. I don't think there's any collusion with books to give out losers either.

Inside information would be knowing that Donahy is reffing or that Deion Lee is shaving. Other than that, there's no inside information.
 

marine

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Now, there are kickback/rakeback programs. Take the incident I think yer referring too with a sportsbook swooning to get Madjacks on an affiliate program...

What would happen is if you sign up thru that book thru this site, your account would be linked to madjacks... then, over time, madjacks would get a percentage of your losses as payment for referring you to them.

Now, this would require madjack to have a financial interest in your wagers losing, and if he was a real slimeball, he could be giving out free picks (and would only give out losers) in order to to hope you lose more and get him more money in his back pocket.
Even then, he'd have to be a greedy sumb*tch to do that. The average sportsbettor is going to lose 50% of their wagers anyway... why kill that golden goose in an effort for a few pennies more?


Note: this situation would only work if you are the owner of the site, or your name was linked to the referral sign up code.

If you're joe nobody coming to this site and posting picks... it doesn't benefit you at all to post losers because you aren't going to be getting any kind of rakeback.
 

countinguy

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It is not easier to pick losers than winners, but the percentages sway to the losing side the more games bet per day u make, it is very hard to win 10 bets, but easier to win 1 or 2 if that makes any sense. That is one reason the book don't give a chit which side u pick, but love action junkies.
 

yyz

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:mj07: nah, me either. i'm damn good at picking losers :mj07:

False.

Most gamblers think that way, I believe. I think most honest gamblers win and lose between 45-55% of their plays over the long haul.

It's how poorly we manage our money that ruins us, and gives us the illusion of picking more losers than winners.
 
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