Universal Health Care

saint

Go Heels
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Thats whats wrong, the ones at the top getting the billions and billions from this industry wont go for CHANGE. I always wonder If a country that has half the resources that we do can grow their citizens older, live longer along with having less health care problems through out life why cant we? Its not about smart doctors and prices of education, there are 3rd world countries have doctors that use this national or universal health care system..and are dispensing the same medicines and treatments damn near free that we are using here for hundreds and thousands of dollars.

Because Americans by and large are fat, lazy, non-exercising, fast food eating, smoking, drinking bastards. Compare diabetes rates in the USA to a 3rd world country, the burden to the healthcare system, cost of meds to treat, etc etc.

I agree it's broken at the top but like everything else in our country it HAS to begin with personal responsibility!!! I think almost 25% of our children are OBESE! I mean, 1 of 4 kids are obese. This is setting them up for a life of medical problems. Something that can be avoided by putting down the video games, cooking instead of getting McDs and getting them outside. But that takes parenting, something most people these days aren't willing to do.
 

THE KOD

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Obama pushes centers as one focus of health reform
. By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON, March 2 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama has been vague about details of his healthcare reform efforts, but he provided a hint on Monday of one direction he could take -- community health centers.

As he announced the nominations of his two top health executives, Obama highlighted the allocation of $155 million to 126 community health centers as part of the $787 billion economic stimulus package.

"These health centers will expand access to care by helping people in need -- many with no health insurance -- obtain access to comprehensive primary and preventive health care services," Obama told a news conference.

"That helps relieve the burden on emergency rooms across the country, which have become primary care clinics for too many who lack coverage -- often at taxpayer expense."

The Health and Human Services Department said the money would create 5,500 new jobs and help provide health care to an estimated 750,000 low-income Americans.

Gary Pickens, chief research officer for the Healthcare business of Thomson Reuters, a division of Thomson Reuters Corp (TRI.TO) (TRI.N) (TRIL.L) (TRIN.O), agreed the centers relieve overburdened hospitals.

"Hospitals currently have overcrowded emergency departments and would probably prefer to see care given in more appropriate settings for conditions that don't require hospitalization," Pickens said in a telephone interview.

One of the repeated criticisms of the U.S. healthcare system is that patients are often sent to emergency departments for routine care if, for instance, their physician's office is closed or if they do not have health insurance.

Costs in emergency rooms are much higher than in a clinic, and politicians who oppose any kind of a move towards nationalized healthcare support the idea of using retail and community clinics to fill in some of the gaps.

"Over the next two years, a total of $2 billion in Recovery Act funding will be invested in Community Health Centers to support renovations and repairs, investments in health information technology, and critically needed health care services," HHS said in a statement.

It said one out of 19 American uses federal government funded health clinic for primary healthcare -- and such clinics treated 16 million people in 2008, including dental and mental health care.

"Nearly forty percent of patients treated have no health insurance and one-third are children," HHS said.

Obama named Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius to head HHS on Monday and former Clinton Medicare official Nancy DeParle as the head of a new White House office of health reform. He plans a healthcare summit of lawmakers, lobbyists and industry on Thursday.
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Damn I must be some kind of a soothsayer.

Fawking Obama must be reading my threads here at Madjacks.

I may charge him for that shit in the future.
 

hedgehog

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I am a pessimistic SOB, but I still find this to be bullshit. EVERYONE isn't motivated exclusively by money. There are lots of smart folks who are called into a variety of professions. Some people actually want to be doctors to HELP people.


I am not trying to be overly sentimental, but don't you have ANY faith in people?

I will agree with you, even though I do not have much faith in people, most have an agenda
 

hedgehog

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Because Americans by and large are fat, lazy, non-exercising, fast food eating, smoking, drinking bastards. Compare diabetes rates in the USA to a 3rd world country, the burden to the healthcare system, cost of meds to treat, etc etc.

I agree it's broken at the top but like everything else in our country it HAS to begin with personal responsibility!!! I think almost 25% of our children are OBESE! I mean, 1 of 4 kids are obese. This is setting them up for a life of medical problems. Something that can be avoided by putting down the video games, cooking instead of getting McDs and getting them outside. But that takes parenting, something most people these days aren't willing to do.

wow, you are right again, there are some lazy bastards in this country that want everything handed to them, ie Obama supporters
 

THE KOD

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Doctors who treat this new disease must first convince their patients that they are sick and need to take one or more expensive drugs for the rest of their lives, drugs that require regular checkups and blood tests. But such doctors do not work in a vacuum--their efforts to convert healthy people into patients are bolstered by the full weight of the US government, the media and the medical establishment, agencies that have worked in concert to disseminate the cholesterol dogma and convince the population that high cholesterol is the forerunner of heart disease and possibly other diseases as well.

Who suffers from hypercholesterolemia? Peruse the medical literature of 25 or 30 years ago and you?ll get the following answer: any middle-aged man whose cholesterol is over 240 with other risk factors, such as smoking or overweight. After the Cholesterol Consensus Conference in 1984, the parameters changed; anyone (male or female) with cholesterol over 200 could receive the dreaded diagnosis and a prescription for pills. Recently that number has been moved down to 180. If you have had a heart attack, you get to take cholesterol-lowering medicines even if your cholesterol is already very low--after all, you have committed the sin of having a heart attack so your cholesterol must therefore be too high. The penance is a lifetime of cholesterol-lowering medications along with a boring lowfat diet. But why wait until you have a heart attack? Since we all labor under the stigma of original sin, we are all candidates for treatment. Current edicts stipulate cholesterol testing and treatment for young adults and even children.
................................................................

sound familiar
 

SKEETER1

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Wow Saint could not have said it better myself....I am not going to pay for others healthcare..get a damn job and get your own healthcare...PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. Why should I suffer when I went to college and got a degree, but your bum azz was to lasy to make something out of your life and expect that I owe you something. I only owe you a kick in the azz becasue I am paying for your welfare check as well as your healthcare. STOP looking for handouts...not all of us are successful but I will be damned if I will live off the govt. when I an capable of getting 2 jobs at whatever pay to support my family. Dont punish (As many call them the rich) for being successful saying you didn't have the opportunity to go to college to whatever.....get a freakin loan like I did and make your dream come true. I didn't become successful and make the $$ I do to support your lazy azzes who care to do nothing in your life.
 
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Turk 58

THE TURK
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Man you said it f this lazy people who we take care of. I work my ass off to provide health care for my family,and i pay out the ass for it. When i started my company up I would work all week and pick up trash on other contractor job sites on the weekends to make ends meet. No one gave me shit
 

dr. freeze

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I am a pessimistic SOB, but I still find this to be bullshit. EVERYONE isn't motivated exclusively by money. There are lots of smart folks who are called into a variety of professions. Some people actually want to be doctors to HELP people.


I am not trying to be overly sentimental, but don't you have ANY faith in people?

Here is what motivates 90% of the people who go into medicine:

The ability to WORK HARD and make good money and act independently and WITH AUTONOMY. You take away all 4 of those things with socialized medicine. ALL FOUR.

Your hard work is not rewarded.
You do not get paid for working extra hard.
You have some stupid bureaucrat making decisions.
You have red tape up your you know what.

That is a recipe for disaster and you will see a loss of good physicians who will all retire along with a loss of good people going into it. In addition, there will be less incentive to work hard as you will get overtaxed and underpaid with some moron bureaucrat with their 4 year degree in social studies telling you what to do and how to do it.

Access to good medicine will be GONE. Vanished.

It will DESTROY this country. People are motivated to achieve and like to be rewarded and appreciated for their efforts. Doctors are no different than anyone else. How many of you all would work 80 hours for free and throw away your 20's and early 30's for NOTHING.

The first of you to raise your hand I will call you HYPOCRITE unless you work down at the soupline for free 40 hours/week after you get off work.

Communism/Socialism SUCKS and doesn't work. Introducing it into medicine in America will have RUINOUS consequences.
 

dr. freeze

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So, perhaps, a completely new way of conducting healthcare in this country and making it easier financially for people to get an education could possibly make it better for doctors and patients, and certainly less expensive for both? And perhaps less profits for pharma companies, and insurance companies?

Listen, making it "easier" to get an education for doctors will lead to "worse" doctors.

Making it "cheaper" to go into medicine does nothing to make it "cheaper" to the public as that bill is just passed along through some other channel.

Making it less profitable for insurance companies and pharm companies? Are you kidding? Why do we want people to be "poorer"? Do you want to make the market "less profitable"? I want them to MAXIMIZE THEIR PROFITS so that our economy gets rolling again. Very few physicians work for these companies anyway -- well less than 2%.
 

dr. freeze

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How do u propose we insure the 47 million uninsured ????

First 20 million of those 47 million are illegal.

Second, we should encourage them to WORK and pay for it themselves. That is what this country is built on. Self-reliance -- if you can't get insurance working your 35 hour week job, work 70 hours and quit paying for cable television, your cigarettes, and junk food. Maybe your insurance won't cost so much either as you find yourself able to breathe better and lose 40 pounds.

Thirdly, I can't think of one physician who doesn't write off bills of those who can't pay. Hospitals do this too. However, this country needs to get back to what made it strong -- self-reliance and hard work. Not many ever got ahead working 40 hour weeks. Time to saddle up and be responsible. Reward the responsible and penalize those who aren't. At the same time we are already offering plenty of compassion to those who can't pay. They get free care.

Enter responsibility and consequences and maybe you will find a 90% reduction of the current people on the welfare rolls. Maybe you won't find welfare moms having octuplets if their are not financial incentives to do so courtesy big government. As Reagan said, Big government is not the solution it is the problem. It creates a culture of dependency which enables people to become mentally unhealthy and make poor decisions which we all have to pay for. You give people incentive to not work while eliminating consequences of bad decisions.

The American system works and it is the ONLY system that works. But it is in trouble because the Grasshoppers are starting to outnumber and overwhelm the Ants. We have the best care in the history of the world and the poorest of the poor receive it. The richest of the rich will be put in line while they wait to die in Socialized medicine. Only politicians and those with connections will get decent health care. You can count on that.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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First 20 million of those 47 million are illegal.
Second, we should encourage them to WORK and pay for it themselves. That is what this country is built on. Self-reliance -- if you can't get insurance working your 35 hour week job, work 70 hours and quit paying for cable television, your cigarettes, and junk food. Maybe your insurance won't cost so much either as you find yourself able to breathe better and lose 40 pounds.

Thirdly, I can't think of one physician who doesn't write off bills of those who can't pay. Hospitals do this too. However, this country needs to get back to what made it strong -- self-reliance and hard work. Not many ever got ahead working 40 hour weeks. Time to saddle up and be responsible. Reward the responsible and penalize those who aren't. At the same time we are already offering plenty of compassion to those who can't pay. They get free care.

Enter responsibility and consequences and maybe you will find a 90% reduction of the current people on the welfare rolls. Maybe you won't find welfare moms having octuplets if their are not financial incentives to do so courtesy big government. As Reagan said, Big government is not the solution it is the problem. It creates a culture of dependency which enables people to become mentally unhealthy and make poor decisions which we all have to pay for. You give people incentive to not work while eliminating consequences of bad decisions.

The American system works and it is the ONLY system that works. But it is in trouble because the Grasshoppers are starting to outnumber and overwhelm the Ants. We have the best care in the history of the world and the poorest of the poor receive it. The richest of the rich will be put in line while they wait to die in Socialized medicine. Only politicians and those with connections will get decent health care. You can count on that.

Then tack on those on Medicaid that are covered but not on insured list.

By the way--Medicaid (insurance ran by gov)is what is driving all the states budgets into deficits which O is bailing out--then they tell public (and some believe) that by expanding gov control over entire population instead of just a few that are already bankrupting us--that it is the answer- and wouldn't compound the existing problem.

You might ask yourselves if they can't run small operation of gov ran healthcare--how could they run national.
 

THE KOD

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By the way--Medicaid (insurance ran by gov)

You might ask yourselves if they can't run small operation of gov ran healthcare--how could they run national.

.........................................................

medicaid is a small operation :142smilie

damn you cant make this shit up
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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is small compared to universal healthcare

-but probably in your environmet that they may seem like the majority--

I also see in dissusion forum per you post--
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358977&page=2

"I sold everything I had in stocks this morning right before it tanked under 7000 headed to 5000
fawk the stock market.
I got to find a safer place to put my money"


-that it only took 2 months for you to get that "Tony Robbins"--hope/change buyers remorse I warned you about.
:)
 

The Sponge

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This health care system Obama is seeking is a choice so why don't all u right wingers keep what u have and go sit on the sidelines. Im gonna go for the nice affordable one the politicians use. all this doom and gloom yet we are the only western industralize nation with out it. You righties always bring up Canada as the devil of the health care industry and then i talk to a Canadian and they laugh at our system. Take a poll with the Canadians and see if they rather have our system. It will be 100 percent hell no. What Obama is offering will help small business as well as big businesses like the car companies. You would think u righties would love that part since u hang on the tip of all the CEO's of the country.
 

Sun Tzu

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This health care system Obama is seeking is a choice so why don't all u right wingers keep what u have and go sit on the sidelines. Im gonna go for the nice affordable one the politicians use. all this doom and gloom yet we are the only western industralize nation with out it. You righties always bring up Canada as the devil of the health care industry and then i talk to a Canadian and they laugh at our system. Take a poll with the Canadians and see if they rather have our system. It will be 100 percent hell no. What Obama is offering will help small business as well as big businesses like the car companies. You would think u righties would love that part since u hang on the tip of all the CEO's of the country.

Will I have a choice whether my taxes pay for it?
 

THE KOD

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is small compared to universal healthcare

-but probably in your environmet that they may seem like the majority--

I also see in dissusion forum per you post--
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358977&page=2

"I sold everything I had in stocks this morning right before it tanked under 7000 headed to 5000
fawk the stock market.
I got to find a safer place to put my money"


-that it only took 2 months for you to get that "Tony Robbins"--hope/change buyers remorse I warned you about.
:)
..........................................................

it has nothing to do with Obama

I got screwed in the dot.com stock crash also.

Obama wasnt anywhere near that one
 

bubbas1

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This health care system Obama is seeking is a choice so why don't all u right wingers keep what u have and go sit on the sidelines. Im gonna go for the nice affordable one the politicians use. all this doom and gloom yet we are the only western industralize nation with out it. You righties always bring up Canada as the devil of the health care industry and then i talk to a Canadian and they laugh at our system. Take a poll with the Canadians and see if they rather have our system. It will be 100 percent hell no. What Obama is offering will help small business as well as big businesses like the car companies. You would think u righties would love that part since u hang on the tip of all the CEO's of the country.

And exactly how much more do Canadians pay in taxes for universal coverage??? How much more are you willing to pay? If you are on the govt tit already I can see why you wouldnt care about the cost.

Once the govt gets universal healthcare they will be able to enforce more rules to "protect" you from yourself. Two areas I know of for Canada are..snowmobile speed limit..35mph:rolleyes: and mandatory helmet laws...:rolleyes: . I will be more than willing to keep paying my own way so the govt dosent have a say in how they think I should be living. If you are weak and need the govt to take you by the hand then by all means keep rooting for universal health care.
 

The Sponge

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And exactly how much more do Canadians pay in taxes for universal coverage??? How much more are you willing to pay? If you are on the govt tit already I can see why you wouldnt care about the cost.

Once the govt gets universal healthcare they will be able to enforce more rules to "protect" you from yourself. Two areas I know of for Canada are..snowmobile speed limit..35mph:rolleyes: and mandatory helmet laws...:rolleyes: . I will be more than willing to keep paying my own way so the govt dosent have a say in how they think I should be living. If you are weak and need the govt to take you by the hand then by all means keep rooting for universal health care.


Ill ask again why is it every time i ask a Canadian if they would rather have our system intead of their own they roll on the floor with laughter? :shrug:
You would think by the sound of ur post that they would love to get rid of theirs and take mine. Since the pharmaceuticals and the Insurance companies will spend billions and billions to fill people minds up with garbage to shoot this down, i can see what u are saying. Where do u guys get this garbage about the Gov't is gonna run it and make decisions before the doctors? Boy there are some doozy's out there that are down right laughable. The big bad Gov't is gonna take over everything and we are gonna become there patients. Im looking for affordable health care and not worrying that someday my whole net worth will be pissed away from a health crisis
 
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