Universal Health Care

[saint]

Where do u guys get this garbage about the Gov't is gonna run it and make decisions before the doctors? Boy there are some doozy's out there that are down right laughable. The big bad Gov't is gonna take over everything and we are gonna become there patients.

The state governments of some states mandate a database for prescriptions. One main motivation is to track druggies who shop around from office to office trying to get Rxs. On the surface, this is a good thing. However, when I see a patient who has some painful work done, I go to write an Rx for tylenol with codeine, the pharmacist calls me and says since this patient's name is on their list he can't fill it. Whether or not the patient is a drug seeker doesn't matter. He was in pain from procedures we did and needed them at this time.

The government just dictated what I could, and in this case couldn't, prescribe.

Sponge medical record database will be monitored by a government appointed watchdog group per Obama. They will look at doctor's prescribing habits and if they decide "it's not efficient" they will dictate what they can and can't prescribe. All from looking at a computer file and going against the physicians knowledge of the actual person behind the record.

 

[bubbas1]

Ill ask again why is it every time i ask a Canadian if they would rather have our system intead of their own they roll on the floor with laughter? :shrug:
You would think by the sound of ur post that they would love to get rid of theirs and take mine. Since the pharmaceuticals and the Insurance companies will spend billions and billions to fill people minds up with garbage to shoot this down, i can see what u are saying. Where do u guys get this garbage about the Gov't is gonna run it and make decisions before the doctors? Boy there are some doozy's out there that are down right laughable. The big bad Gov't is gonna take over everything and we are gonna become there patients. Im looking for affordable health care and not worrying that someday my whole net worth will be pissed away from a health crisis

If Canadians like there system...more power to them. The problem with the US govt is I cant think of one major program (SSI, Medicare, etc) that they havent screwed up. Granted its our own fault for continually voting the same people in office time after time. Why should I trust them to be any different in universal health care? If I am paying my own way I have more say in how I think I should live. If its a govt run program I believe they will want to try to change that because "they" are paying for it. I can see them now...because costs for medical is so high we believe you shouldnt be able to do xyz.

I dont understand how people think it will be cheaper for universal coverage. I dont know if the govt would dictate to the doctors on how they should treat you. I just dont want to give them the chance to find out.

 

[dr. freeze]

Where do u guys get this garbage about the Gov't is gonna run it and make decisions before the doctors?

This already happens in the VA health system run by the federal government. Fortunately, when a veteran with some degree of an inquisitory nature realizes this, they go to the private hospitals to get quality care. It also happens in hundreds of county hospitals across the country. It is also well documented in other countries. I sit in many a conference where we hear about these horrible pharmaceutical drugs you talk about which are PROVEN to help patients but are NOT ALLOWED in other countries state run health care plans because of budget problems. Some government official will cling to 1 paper with horribly thought out conclusions in the face of hundreds others with opposite conclusions just to save $$ all at the expense of FREEDOM for the patient. Fortunately, the people who can afford it (the rich) in other countries can still come to the US to receive proper care.

Today in America, the poorest of the poor are given these same options and if they can't pay for it, health institutions and professionals eat the bill. If you want to be a naive patient and just go to your government run institution like your buddies in Canada go ahead, you are at the mercy of the system. You are the prototypical product of a Marxist state.

Please do not speak further unless you know what you are talking about.

 

[The Sponge]

This already happens in the VA health system run by the federal government. Fortunately, when a veteran with some degree of an inquisitory nature realizes this, they go to the private hospitals to get quality care. It also happens in hundreds of county hospitals across the country. It is also well documented in other countries. I sit in many a conference where we hear about these horrible pharmaceutical drugs you talk about which are PROVEN to help patients but are NOT ALLOWED in other countries state run health care plans because of budget problems. Some government official will cling to 1 paper with horribly thought out conclusions in the face of hundreds others with opposite conclusions just to save $$ all at the expense of FREEDOM for the patient. Fortunately, the people who can afford it (the rich) in other countries can still come to the US to receive proper care.

Today in America, the poorest of the poor are given these same options and if they can't pay for it, health institutions and professionals eat the bill. If you want to be a naive patient and just go to your government run institution like your buddies in Canada go ahead, you are at the mercy of the system. You are the prototypical product of a Marxist state.

Please do not speak further unless you know what you are talking about.

yeah i got ur bullshit and i especially like the a part about how rich people come running over here to our country for care. Imagine that. Rich people running to a country that isn't even in the top ten in good care. What are we around 35 now? The way u righties make it sound u would think the doctor would make the diagnosis and then Obama and his staff will decide on the treatment. Wait a minute there is a place right here that basically does it. Doc diagnosis and Insurance companies tell them how to go about it. Great greedy lovely system we have now.

 

[djv]

Number 7 were rated. And I see on C Span CEO's from three of our best. John Hopkins, Mayo System, Stanford U say it's time. They believe a first rate system that will save cost, protect against mistakes can happen. And with fewer mistakes fewer law suits will accur.

 

[The Sponge]

Number 7 were rated. And I see on C Span CEO's from three of our best. John Hopkins, Mayo System, Stanford U say it's time. They believe a first rate system that will save cost, protect against mistakes can happen. And with fewer mistakes fewer law suits will accur.

Should we listen to them DJ or listen to Freeze who probably graduated from Liberty college.

 

[SKEETER1]

No matter where Freeze graduated from doesn't matter....atleast he graduated and took out loans to pay for his college edu.( and is paying them bk) and isn't looking for a handout. From my understanding Freeze I believe your a DR by now. I sense alittle jealousy since the majority of rep are well educated and the majority of Dems do not have a hs school degree. THAT IS A FACT. LOOK IT UP! ! ! !

 

[The Sponge]

No matter where Freeze graduated from doesn't matter....atleast he graduated and took out loans to pay for his college edu.( and is paying them bk) and isn't looking for a handout. From my understanding Freeze I believe your a DR by now. I sense alittle jealousy since the majority of rep are well educated and the majority of Dems do not have a hs school degree. THAT IS A FACT. LOOK IT UP! ! ! !

Pricelesss. U mean some of those educated ones who fall for talking points over and over again like you? The ones who blame every problem in the world on welfare people but when u bring up bank bailouts they cower in the corner? You don't think taking those loans out were not, in a way, a handout? You rightwingers are great in denouncing programs to help people but when it suits u, ur hand goes out faster then a beggar on a street corner.U cry like little girls if the taxs rates roll back on the wealthy but u sure as hell won't refuse ur middle class tax break. How many credits did u get in Hypocrisy 101?

 

[djv]

Ouch, but I must say

 

[SKEETER1]

Sponge....atleast we are paying bk our loans and the welfare people just keep taking and never pay bk. Let me ask the welfare azzholes to pay me bk in my taxes, for their lazy azzes who wont go look for a job. The only ones I see cowering in a corner is the ones I pass going to work when they are huddled in a corner waiting for the soup kitchen to open. It doesnt matter where you get your edu. from or if its from a 101 class, it shows me people are attempting to educate themselves. Sponge I take it you did not go to college which is perfectly fine but to those of us who did or who are in college, dont blame us for attempting to better prepare ourselves mentally and finacially. You can never go wrong educating yourself. Their are many probs in the world but welfare and illegals to name a few I will NOT put up with....thats laziness and wanting others to support you.

 

[The Sponge]

Sponge....atleast we are paying bk our loans and the welfare people just keep taking and never pay bk. Let me ask the welfare azzholes to pay me bk in my taxes, for their lazy azzes who wont go look for a job. The only ones I see cowering in a corner is the ones I pass going to work when they are huddled in a corner waiting for the soup kitchen to open. It doesnt matter where you get your edu. from or if its from a 101 class, it shows me people are attempting to educate themselves. Sponge I take it you did not go to college which is perfectly fine but to those of us who did or who are in college, dont blame us for attempting to better prepare ourselves mentally and finacially. You can never go wrong educating yourself. Their are many probs in the world but welfare and illegals to name a few I will NOT put up with....thats laziness and wanting others to support you.

How do u know those people on the corner are collecting welfare? Do u walk up and card them or sum shit like that? Do u realize there are actually people who should get welfare? As for ur loans? They are handouts just like when i got a loan to help my business. I took the handout that let me run the business. Yes we pay it back but we both couldn't do what we wanted to do without the helping hand. I really don't get worked up about welfare people like most of u righties. Im more worried about were the real big money is going. (or stolen).

 

[saint]

The ones who blame every problem in the world on welfare people but when u bring up bank bailouts they cower in the corner? You don't think taking those loans out were not, in a way, a handout?

Handouts are free. You don't have to repay handouts.

People who acquire student loans pay for the privilege. It's called interest you schmuck. It's a loan. So basically by your definition unless you have zero responsibility to any loan whatsoever, you are getting a handout. So by sponge's definition 99.9999% of Americans get handouts.

Getting a refund without ever having paid income tax, and having no responsibility to repay it is a handout. You're a moran.

 

[gardenweasel]

 

[Terryray]

I've met a few Canadians who report that the universal health care up there really means "universal access to the government controlled waiting lists for health care".

Mark Steyn, a Canadian journalist, wrote that "if you have government health care, you not only annex a huge chunk of the economy, you also destroy a huge chunk of individual liberty. You fundamentally change the relationship between the citizen and the state into something closer to that of junkie and pusher, and you make it very difficult ever to change back."

 

[MadJack]

I've met a few Canadians who report that the universal health care up there really means "universal access to the government controlled waiting lists for health care".

Mark Steyn, a Canadian journalist, wrote that "if you have government health care, you not only annex a huge chunk of the economy, you also destroy a huge chunk of individual liberty. You fundamentally change the relationship between the citizen and the state into something closer to that of junkie and pusher, and you make it very difficult ever to change back."

i've heard the same thing. they sometimes have to wait on a possible emergency operation.

here, they're ready for anything, RIGHT NOW.

a couple years ago when my doc told me i should have a colonoscopy and i agree to have it done, he wanted me scheduled for the NEXT DAY! WAT?! :scared

i'm not convinced that they have the quality health care like we have here.

JMO TIA

 

[The Sponge]

i've heard the same thing. they sometimes have to wait on a possible emergency operation.

here, they're ready for anything, RIGHT NOW.

a couple years ago when my doc told me i should have a colonoscopy and i agree to have it done, he wanted me scheduled for the NEXT DAY! WAT?! :scared

i'm not convinced that they have the quality health care like we have here.

JMO TIA

If the 50 million people who don't have health care now have health care i bet we have to wait then. sometimes i would rather wait a month then that brutal three hour wait in a doctors office :142smilie One time i waited 2 hrs then they put me in the small waiting room which took another 45 minutes. The doctor takes my blood pressure and says" Your blood pressure is high do u know why? I said could it have anything to do with that three hour wait? He wasn't to amused.

 

[The Sponge]

Handouts are free. You don't have to repay handouts.

People who acquire student loans pay for the privilege. It's called interest you schmuck. It's a loan. So basically by your definition unless you have zero responsibility to any loan whatsoever, you are getting a handout. So by sponge's definition 99.9999% of Americans get handouts.

Getting a refund without ever having paid income tax, and having no responsibility to repay it is a handout. You're a moran.

Its still a helping hand and for a guy who cries like a girl about personal responsibility then u should have use ur own money instead of the gov't since u have such a big mouth.

 

[djv]

It,s coming no matter what we think. The reason it did not in the 90's was business was not for it. Now small and large business including jaycees are pushing for it. It's no longer just a Dem/Reb thing. And the Reb know it and wont stand in the way in fear of more losses.

 

[THE KOD]

Commentary: War on drugs is insaneStory Highlights

Jack Cafferty: We spend enormous sums to enforce the laws against drugs

Mexican cartels have set up operations in 230 American cities, he says

Cafferty: Enforcement doesn't stop Americans from finding ways to get drugs

He says there are many other uses for the billions we spend in war on drugs

By Jack Cafferty
Special to CNN

Jack Cafferty says America's effort to prohibit illegal drugs doesn't work and should be rethought.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Here's something to think about:

How many police officers and sheriff's deputies are involved in investigating and solving crimes involving illegal drugs? And arresting and transporting and interrogating and jailing the suspects?

How many prosecutors and their staffs spend time prosecuting drug cases? How many defense lawyers spend their time defending drug suspects?

How many hours of courtroom time are devoted to drug trials? How many judges, bailiffs, courtroom security officers, stenographers, etc., spend their time on drug trials?

How many prison cells are filled with drug offenders? And how many corrections officers does it take to guard them? How much food do these convicts consume?

And when they get out, how many parole and probation officers does it take to supervise their release? And how many ex-offenders turn right around and do it again?

So how's this war on drugs going?

Someone described insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time. That's a perfect description of the war on drugs.

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In Depth: Commentaries
The United States is the largest illegal drug market in the world. Americans want their weed, crack, cocaine, heroin, whatever. And they're willing to pay big money to get it.

The drug suppliers are only too happy to oblige. The Mexican drug cartels now have operations in 230 American cities. That's 230 American cities!

And we're not just talking about border towns, but places such as Anchorage, Alaska; Boston, Massachusetts; Atlanta, Georgia; and Billings, Montana. They're everywhere. And they don't just bring drugs, but violence and crime as well -- lots of it at no extra charge.

They have been able to infiltrate those 230 cities because we have not bothered to secure our borders. In addition to illegal aliens who come here to work and avail themselves of our social programs, we have criminals from Mexico bringing drugs in, taking money and guns back, and recruiting American kids into their criminal enterprises while they're here. iReport.com: Is it time to legalize pot?

What do you suppose the total price tag is for this failed war on drugs? One senior Harvard economist estimates we spend $44 billion a year fighting the war on drugs. He says if they were legal, governments would realize about $33 billion a year in tax revenue. Net swing of $77 billion. Could we use that money today for something else? You bet your ass we could. Plus the cartels would be out of business. Instantly. Goodbye crime and violence.

If drugs were legalized, we could empty out a lot of our prison cells. People will use this stuff whether it's legal or not. Just like they do booze. And you could make the argument that in some cases alcohol is just as dangerous as some drugs. I know.

Like I said ... something to think about. It's time
................................................................

if they would stop the war on drugs we would have the money to take care of every person in the United States with health care benifts.

wtf

this hasnt worked, it dont work, try something else.

its billions and billions for what

 

[tig3rs]

The problem starts with the insurance companies. You would be shocked to see what the physicians make after insurance gets done.

General surgeons literally, and i mean literally, make a mere 50 bucks for taking out a gall bladder in some cases. It's to the point where most med students don't even consider certain fields. Do you want a 2nd or 3rd rate doc operating on your loved ones? I wouldn't.

Scott if doctor's were doing as well as you paint it then why would 60% not recommend it to someone interested? Things are getting so bad they are having a hard time getting med students to consider general practice. How about 16 years of school and 300k in loans to come out seeing 100 patients a day and making 120k. It's just not worth it. Scott you are once again clueless.

http://medheadlines.com/2008/11/19/us-doctors-disillusioned-60-wouldnt-recommend-medical-profession/

The post above mine pretty much summarizes things well.

and the insurance companies' problems begin and end with THE GOVERNMENT! MEDICARE & MEDICAID KILL HOSPITAL SYSTEMS AND DOCTORS! they underpay forcing doctors and hospitals to pass on those costs to actual paying customers and their insurance companies.

hospitals and doctors around the country have already begun refusing medicaid and medicare patients because IT COSTS THEM MONEY! if the government got its nose out of the business, everything would sort itself out, but god forbid the politicians don't have anything to hand out.

the problem started when health insurance got linked to employment and people became less prudent about visiting the doctor. when it's your cash paying for the appointment you think about it a little more. if we got off that system and everyone got to buy their own insurance, the MARKET WOULD BE OPEN AND PRICES WOULD DROP! (provided we get rid of medicaid and medicare--medicaid first, of course).

if you're not responsible enough to call up blue cross and plunk down your $ to cover you in case something really bad happens (and not just visit the doctor every time you twist your ankle or get a scratch on your hand) then you don't deserve to be taken care of. if you haven't saved money for a rainy day, or thought about the possibility that maybe one day you'd lose your job, or something bad might happen, that's your fault! not mine! the rest of the country shouldn't have to pay for your irresponsibility!

personal responsibility has vanished for half the country now that almost 50% of workers in this country pay ZERO income taxes!!! new york state's about to learn a lesson that when you jack up taxes on everyone, the people that can, LEAVE! right now in this country, the second highest corporate tax rate is driving corporations overseas and california's learning the same lesson as their population dropped last year because businesses and workers FLED from the punitive business environment!

the most feared words used to be "i'm from the US government and i'm here to help"

now people expect this government, one of the most wasteful in the world, to fix anything?! give me a break! it takes an hour to get a driver's license replaced! how do you think they'll be at running a hospital!

take your life in your own hands! stop depending on the messiah to put gas in your tank or to put a band-aid on your knee. no one's gonna help you but you! pick yourself up, get out there and do something productive! earn your keep!