2004 Futures

IE

Administrator
Forum Admin
Forum Member
Mar 15, 1999
95,440
223
63
march 9th B/P report on white sox...

march 9th B/P report on white sox...

Rub Some Dirt On It: At the beginning of Spring Training, Ozzie Guillen said that he expected his starting pitchers to be ready to throw complete games, as soon as Opening Day. No big deal, really. And if his pitchers aren't ready in one month's time to meet his challenge, "they better get another job."
It's an idle threat. The real concern is that he won't comprehend the difference between efficiency and machismo, and since the Sox don't have enough starters as it is, score for machismo. Four slots in the rotation are set. Mark Buehrle, Esteban Loaiza, Jon Garland, and Scott Schoeneweis are in place. The Sox should have at least four pitchers splitting time in the fifth slot, with Jon Rauch, Danny Wright, and Felix Diaz getting most of the calls. PECOTA doesn't like their chances, forecasting a 4.63 ERA for the group:


2004 PECOTA Mean Projection
IP ERA
Buehrle 202 4.42
Loaiza 201 3.93
Garland 149 4.76
Schoeneweis 72 4.55
Rauch 83 5.15
Wright 102 5.45
Diaz 62 4.84

That's 552 innings for their top three, with the other four accounting for only 319. The light load projected for them leaves Guillen about 130 innings short of the 1000 he'll need to get from his rotation. He's going to get those thousand innings come hell or high water, but to do it he's going to have to push both ends of his rotation, the front end so it doesn't burn his bullpen when the crummier pitchers take their turns, the back end past the point of diminishing returns.

Last year, White Sox starters had an ERA of 4.17 and a Support Neutral winning percentage of .543, 5th best in the American League. Together, Bartolo Colon and Loaiza were nearly 15 games over .500 in their Support-Neutral record, and because of them last year's rotation was by far the best Jerry Manuel had in his six years as Sox manager.


Year SNW SNL SNPct. AdjRA SNVA Ranking in AL
2003 62.4 52.5 .543 4.49 5th
2002 53.1 59.7 .471 5.24 10th
2001 53.5 58 .480 5.13 8th
2000 55.1 54.3 .504 5.33 6th
1999 51.3 61.7 .454 5.86 worst
1998 47.0 66.5 .414 5.89 worst

Even if we assume Loaiza repeats and Buehrle holds steady, Guillen will have to substitute Colon's 242 innings with 242 innings of Wright, Rauch, Diaz, and TBA.

If Guillen plans to work his bullpen less than Manuel did and, as he promises, still protect his starting pitchers, it'll be a feat. Manuel asked only 418 innings out of his bullpen last year, the third year in a row he used them for less than 500.


Year Staff Innings Thrown by Bullpen
2003 1431 29%
2002 1423 33%
2001 1433.3 35%

Only two teams had fewer bullpen innings in 2003, and only one used relievers for less than 400 (the Yankees got 396). In terms of Adjusted Runs Prevented, Manuel's bullpens ranked last, 5th, 6th, 7th, 6th, and, last year, 6th again. Guillen is looking at more of the same. As a group, Damaso Marte, Kelly Wunsch, Billy Koch, Jon Adkins, and Cliff Politte have a projected ERA of 4.21, which would make them a lot like Sox bullpens of recent vintage. But here, too, the innings are short. PECOTA projects these five relievers to account for 297 innings.

Where will Guillen get the rest of his innings? If those projections prove out, he'll have to get more than 100 innings - maybe a lot more - in the pen from Wright (5.45), Rauch (5.15), Diaz (4.84), and Gary Majewski(4.92). They'll all have to perform at the top quartile of their PECOTA to keep the bullpen at 4.21. And let's not forget Shingo Takatsu, the import from Japan whose PECOTA projection is so bad we almost have to disregard it:


IP H BB K HR ERA
25 40 11 19 12 10.44

Clay Davenport did a different projection, using Takatsu's weighted performance from 2000 to 2003, and this one came out more charitably:


IP H BB K HR ERA
38.7 42 19 20 5 5.06

It's an improvement, but for a best case scenario it's fugging scary, especially when you consider that Takatsu's strikeout rate has declined in each of the last four years, from 5.8 to 4.3.

With a rickety relief corps and a short rotation, Guillen faces a Hobson's choice: surrender the title in favor of the future, or push his pitchers to the breaking point on the hope that 85 wins will get them to playoffs. He wasn't brought in to restart the development cycle, so, to bring us back to the initial question, the smart money's on machismo. And someone else to win the Central.
 

JT

Degenerate
Forum Member
Mar 28, 2000
3,592
81
48
60
Ventura, Ca.
Marra, you are correct. Clumsy comment on my part.
IE, I was thinking of suscribing to Baseball Prospectus Premium this year. I take it you are already and would you highly recommend it for any baseball handicapper? Bought the book before and enjoyed it and cruise the site once in awhile.
As for Dodger Stadium, it has been 3 years now for me but unless it has taken a real steep turn for the worse it never struck me as a dump. Of course alot of new parks these days may make it seem run down by comparison. :shrug:
 

THE HITMAN

Registered User
Forum Member
Dec 18, 2001
2,899
3
0
HOLLYWOOD, FL
Hi Bleed, thanks for the write ups. I was reeeeeeally young, but my fave Dodger teams were 55-56 (Gilliam, Reese , Snider, Furillo, Hodges, Robinson, Campanella, Amoros, Newcombe era) I loved watching them take it to the Yankees. And later , of course, with Koufax & Drysdale.

I have played CLEVE U 73.5 +112 and MONT U 73.5 +102. I am looking at TAMPA U 69, but I am not in love with the -120 to -130 that I need to lay . Also looking at PHIL U the 92 Even at OLYMPIC.

Do You have any comments on any of the above ?

I like to play mostly unders,due to the injury factors. Injuries can strike and take games away from a projected total , but none can usually be added (other than free agent pickups etc.) as the present roster is represented in the given number. I also try to find wet weather area teams without a dome. This is usually good for a chance of a game or two not being played, especially if the team is at at the bottom of the standings and make up game(s) may not necessarily be played. There is a risk here, however, as most payoffs are for 160 games minimum. You can be in on an over and lose it if you don't get the 160 games in. So, you have 2 games two work with, so to speak. It is rare for any team to play less than 160. Also, sticking with the lower echelon team theory..............they are more apt to ship players out towards the end of the season, not acquire them. And, they will use more of their expanded rosters in September.
I realize a seasoned vet like you realizes all of this, but maybe there is a new guy or two who can benefit by it..........Any edge you can get, right?

GL, THE HITMAN
 
Last edited:

BleedDodgerBlue

Admin
Forum Member
Feb 12, 2004
7,383
82
0
49
los angeles
Hey hitman, i'll try to respond to some of your questions in the post. I too agree that there can be a lot of value in unders as far as futures go for mlb team totals. Injuries do play an enormous part. My book uses 160 games. I wouldn't put too much credence into hoping a team won't play that number because wet or domed or not if a make-up game needs to be played for playoff purposes it will be. It's impossible to try and guess how that affects this. But yes any edge you can get.

As for your bets that you already placed i agree with cleveland. They will be improved, and they are in a weak division, but asking them to win 74 games is a lot. They won 68 games last year and asking them to win 6 more might be a stretch. They are in a weak division and thats why I like the white sox over personally. I think Detroit is obviously improved and that balances out by the twins probably weakening. They are still such a young team its asking alot of them. The outfield of bradley, gerut and lawton wont put fear in anyone. Look at their starting pitching....take away jose jimenez and bob wickman and not one pitcher has more than 5 years big league experience. The only thing keeping me from hopping on this wagon with you is the division they are in.

The montreal pick of yours i'm not sold on for one reason. Looking at that line-up I would join you if they played every game up in canada. But they don't. I think this year that stadium down in peurto rico or jamaica or wherever out of the country it is will be the biggest homefield advantage in all of bases. I don't have their record down their last year and i'm too lazy to look it up right now, but ask all the teams that have gone down their. They hate it. Long flights, customs, change of diet, etc. I don't care what they say publically to make baseball sound good, players hate travelling there. They aren't going to club med and this will play into the expos hands. you know the old addage that every team wins and loses 60 games in a season and there isn't anything they can do about it. Its what they do with the other 42 that make the season. I think getting teams coming to them in the dominican will help them more this year. For this reason, i personally would avoid this bet.

i know im rambling now, so i'll hit the other ones u asked

tampa bay- nice improved team, but they are going to be the bitch of that division. There is no way they finish above any of the other teams...yanks, r sox, bjay, oreos. They won 63 last year and now asking them to win 6 more when every team in that division made drastic improvements. The only reason i won't bet it is because i have too much respect for pinella. He definitely gets the most out of his players and crazy stuff happens in bases.

phillies- i wouldn't touch this future with free money. Somehow all philadelphia teams in all sports always have so much promise and rarely live up to it. But really looking at this roster, this team is stacked. Atlanta will NOT win this division. I think its a race between the phillies and the marlins with an edge going to the phils. On paper this may be the best team in the nl. they are really balanced. starters of milwood, myers, wolf, and padilla are solid. Their biggest problem is middle relief, but then again so is most of the teams in the bigs. They really gave themselves a chance getting wagner HUGE aquisition. If he's healthy he's right there with gags and smoltz. Love thome, and they got a nice outfielf of abreau, burrel, and byrd, and glanville is a nice platoon type pinch hitter. I personally would stay away from this one, this team looks good, but then again you never know with injuries.

Hope this helped some, good luck to you in your wagers.
 
Last edited:

THE HITMAN

Registered User
Forum Member
Dec 18, 2001
2,899
3
0
HOLLYWOOD, FL
Thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts,guy. GL to you, also. If I can borrow some space in your thread, I welcome any one else'sother comments on my plays.
I pulled the trigger on the TAMPA U today. For just about the same reasons you listed. Simply, too much improvement in the other teams in the division and asking them to win 7 more than last year to beat me seems like alot to me. Didn't like to lay the vig on it, tho.
I am really up in the air about the PHIL wager. Having a hard time punching the enter icon on it. Maybe I will find another team to possibly replace them and will give a harder look at the CINN U.
THE HITMAN
 
Last edited:
Bet on MyBookie
Top