Abortion Poll

[dr. freeze]

my position lies on implantation.....which happens 10-11 days after sex....

so if raped, a woman has that many days to prevent implantation which can easily be managed by a pill....thus preventing implantation....the embryo is at this stage (10-11 days) has evolved from pluripotent -- meaning i could take any one of 8-16 cells which compose it and make a baby (but in actuality the cells do not all contribute towards the baby) -- to nonpluripotent -- meaning a harvested cell could not form a baby....


a woman has all kinds of choices...she can not have sex, use contraception with the idea that there still is a risk of pregnancy, and also can easily take care of any pregnancy after sex within days....

the argument boils down to this (as stated before)
1. The baby in the womb is a life
2. The baby in the womb is not a life

If you take a position and are wrong (in which it is one or the other and for the dense above it was assumed that this cannot be determined as 100% truth -- each side can only be credited with a certain amount of evidence)

So then which side would you NOT want to be wrong with?

This makes the decision crystal clear IMO....i simply would not want to assume position 2 and be wrong.....assuming position 1 and being wrong would still leave me with granting the woman plenty of choices...and if i correctly assume that women are rational creatures and capable of making responsible decisions -- then i can in good conscience hold to that position

 

[dr. freeze]

and saint....your definition of life as being able to not rely on the umbilical cord is ridiculous...

a guy on the OR table relies on his endotracheal tube to breathe

some folks live on ventilators....

etc. etc....they are not "unliving" in the same way a baby which needs the cord to exchange gases and nutrition is not unliving

 

[SixFive]

Very true. If one is truly a staunch believer that this is murder, then there can't be any exceptions. Period. Not rape. Not incest. Not damage to the fetus that will likely cause retardation. Not even 'danger to the mother'.

totally agree with this. I think right to lifers (consider me one of them) do themselves a disservice when they try to differentiate and produce exceptions.

I also agree with the statement above that abortions are usually done as a matter of convenience when people are not responsible for their own actions. Fewer than 1% of all pregnancies are a result of rape. Abortion is not a form of birth control. Condoms, "the pill", the big "V", Elaine's sponge, etc. are.

One of the few discussions on this topic I can ever remember that didn't resort to name calling after more than 2 posts. Good job!

 

[greg]

If a gal has the right to choose life or death for her child then the father should have the right to choose child support or not. The woman not only chooses life or death for the fathers child but also legal responsibility . I say give the father the right to choose also. Guys get the shaft as in no right to choose at all. In The Bible God says I knew you before you were formed, For thou didst knit me together in my mothers womb... Thine eyes have beheld my unformed substance; in thy book were written ,every one of them, the days that were ordained for me when as yet there was not one of them. Well God seems concerned about the preborn human life , I prefer to side with God on this issue rather than naral, now, p.p. rosie o, cybil S.. whoopee g...ect.

 

[kickserv]

shocking how this thread caused a debate......

 

[loungelizard]

Well put Greg... :iagree:

 

[pirate fan]

I think the only choice is whether to have sex or not. Killing the life inside a women is just wrong. I have talked with my wife and two daughters and tols them in case of rape or whatever, we would have the baby and keep it as it is part of them, not totally the rapist. Marco, we all pay taxes and they all go to things we don't support, war, welfare, condoms in schools, whatever. I would also like to see congress redo their pensions according to all the voters that give them this power. Will it ever happen?:shrug: doubt it.

 

[kosar]

my position lies on implantation.....which happens 10-11 days after sex....

so if raped, a woman has that many days to prevent implantation which can easily be managed by a pill

Then I assume you wouldn't have a problem with any woman, raped or not, 'preventing implantation' within 11 days of sex?

 

[TBONEZ0295]

What about the female crack/herion junky who stands on a corner homeless , hungry and high as a kite who is pregnant?????

DAWG- do you have any idea what happens to the babies who are brought into the sytem imediately after birth?????

I do honey............. My mother volenteers at a state funded home for children who are abandoned. Its called Shelter for life and her volenteer program is called bundles of love..............Some were born with heroin and crack addictions and others with the HIV virus. Unfortunately they look for volenteers to hold these poor innocent children / babies so they can feel some love , because there mothers abandoned them and who wants to adopt a child addicted to drugs or that is going to die???? Do you know anyone????? Its a very very sad cituation. My feeling is if these mothers that carried full term decided to abort knowing they had aids or a drug addiction, wouldn't that be more human. I DEFINATELY THINK SO!

Something for you to think about for a minute!!!!!!!!!

As a woman if I were raped and became pregnant I WOULD RUN TO THE ABORTION CLINIC in a heart beat with out 1 second thought!!!!!!!!!

Just my opinion

 

[dawgball]

I respectfully disagree. Once again, murder is murder. I do not know anyone in this situation personally, but if that is all you want to do is throw out examples where you think it is humane to murder someone then that is your choice. Believe me, I have heard all of the situations. I just simply do not agree with legal murder.

I do have personal experience with the rape situation, and it has not changed my stance in the slightest. The girl/woman should not hold the baby accountable for the actions of a crime. It will not change the fact that it happened, and it will not make it go away. And killing that baby would not make you feel better...honey.

So a girl can get all cracked out, have sex with whomever she wants, then kill an innocent child and get a free pass? And we wonder why no one is accountable these days.

Your mother is a good woman to volunteer for such a needy cause. My heart goes out to her.

So you go out and RUN to the abortion clinic. That will be on your conscience for all your days.

 

[TossingSalads]

So Dawgball you must be against the Death penalty then?

 

[dawgball]

Very much so.

 

[ozball]

Same question to Dr Freeze on that one...

It is a paradox in our society that tha most adamant "Pro-life" exponents are also often the loudest defenders of the death penalty....Death row inmates would seem to be past that critical implantation stage...

ozball

good to hear that dawg

 

[dawgball]

I agree, oz, that it is odd that some are for killing babies but not criminals and vice versa. My stance is simply that I respect human life.

Just like aborting the baby will not make the rape go away, killing the criminal will not make the crime committed go away. If your mother was killed, she is not coming back if a guy gets fried. And, IMO, it will not make you feel better.

 

[TossingSalads]

Thanks Dawgball.

That is one thing I can never understand.

 

[Marco]

Personally I consider myself pro-choice and pro-death penalty.....

If my mother got killed, yes, she is not coming back if a guy gets fried......but then again if a guy gets fried nobody else's mother dies either......

Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer, and John Wayne Gacy's streaks are over.....nobody else's mother/father/sister/brother dies from thier treachery and victims can sleep better knowing revenge is not going to be doled out by a dead guy....

First thing these guys try to plea bargain is to not seek the death penalty.......usually in return for an early guilty plea or complete cooperation or something of that nature......

I think the death penalty is a viable punishment but should be used in cases where the evidence is overwhelming that the accused is the guilty party......

 

[SixFive]

Same question to Dr Freeze on that one...

It is a paradox in our society that tha most adamant "Pro-life" exponents are also often the loudest defenders of the death penalty....Death row inmates would seem to be past that critical implantation stage...

It's more of a paradox that so many of the pro-choice (pro death for babies) folks are against the death penalty. Go figure, lets kill the innocent unborn and protect the serial killers and rapists. Makes sense to me! Tossing Salads, ozball, etc, are you against the death penalty, same question back to you.

Tbonez, those are sad examples, but let's take it a step further. How about the elderly and infirm who are out of their minds, incontinent, and totally dependent on another's care. Should we go ahead and just roll their wheelchairs into the crematory? Heck, they won't know the difference, so why not, right?

 

[TossingSalads]

Both parties are stupid for tieing themselves to such issues.

 

[ctownguy]

Tossing that's the first intelligent thing you have posted that I have seen:iagree:

 

[TossingSalads]

Come on Ctown my Republican Convention Program was pretty witty.