Another Obama War

Lumi

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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Another Obama War[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Recently by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.: Is QE3 Ahead?[/FONT]


Following the US-lobbied UN authorization of military murder in Libya, the death-dealing regime of Colonel Gaddafi said immediately that it would stop all killing. That put Obama?s war on hold, for a little while. The crazy Colonel has learned a thing or two about American foreign policy. If you pretend to favor the stated goals of the empire and comply with its stated dictates, you can otherwise do what every government in the world is structured to do: stay in power at all costs.

Gaddafi learned this lesson about a decade ago, when, with much fanfare, he announced that he would stop his nuclear weapons program and join the war on terror. The US then decided to rank him and his regime among the world?s good guys, and proceeded to hold him up as an example of wise statesmanship. Then he proceeded to dig in more deeply and tighten his despotic control over his citizens, all with the implied blessing of the US.

But this time it may not work. For weeks, American officials have been decrying Gaddafi?s bloody attacks on his people, but does the US really have a problem with dictatorship of his sort? This fact is unknown to Americans, but in the Middle East, and in Arab nations in particular, American commercial interests are regarded as a force for liberation but not the US government. The US has been the key to the power of Middle East dictatorships for decades, among which are Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Yemen. I leave aside the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iaqi civilians to liberate them.

So it is something of a joke that the US would push a war against Libya in order to save that country from dictatorship. More likely, the real issue here is the same one that inspired the wars against Iraq: the ownership and control of the oil. And even if freedom were the driving motivation, when in modern history has war ever actually brought that to people? All war by nation states today ends in massive civilian deaths, destruction of infrastructure, political upheaval without end (see Afghanistan and Iraq), vast expense, and bitterness all around.

War will not achieve its claimed objective. It might even end up entrenching Gaddafi?s power. But let?s say that he ends up dead, like Saddam Hussein. What then? The new government will be handpicked by the victor, and never gain any credibility, just as in Iraq. People resent foreign conquerors even more than local despots, and this resentment is not a good foundation for a future of liberty.

President Obama probably looks at the prospect of war rather lustily, just as Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, et al. did before him. But this time, there is a problem. The US simply cannot afford to be seen as attacking yet another Muslim country, though that is what it is doing, at a time when all the world knows that US foreign policy is primarily based on whipping up anti-Islamic feelings the world over, and taking over the oil.

For this reason, the Obama administration must seek the cover of the UN and the cooperation of other Arab states. England and France have been reliable, but not Germany and not other Arab states, so the operation could end up more tricky than he initially supposed.

Let?s just pretend for a moment that the US government really does want to free the people of Libya from a wicked man. What is the right way to go about it? There is the assassination option, which I oppose but which would nonetheless be a much better choice than war. What of the US?s legendary CIA hitmen that can take down anyone on the planet following a few orders from on high? Where are they now?

Recall that in the last days before the last war on Iraq, a spokesman for Saddam actually did propose a duel between Bush or Cheney and Saddam or his vice president. It was not an unserious suggestion. This would have been a much better option for both Iraq and America, but then the government doesn?t really get what it wants out of war, which is a chance to blow things up, spend gobs of money, whip up the population in war frenzy, and inspire another bout of nationalistic hysteria that helps consolidate power for the war-making regime.

Is it possible to both oppose Gaddafi and oppose a war on Gaddafi? Absolutely. This is a position that all Americans should adopt. In the same way, it is possible to oppose the Obama administration but also oppose having a foreign army oust him in order to liberate us.

In the early days of the protests in Libya against Gaddafi, the protesters held up signs opposing any foreign intervention. This is still the right approach. There should be no war, no blockades, no impositions of a "no-fly zone," or anything else. The US has been a supporter and backer of Gaddafi for a decade. That damage is already done. Going to war would only compound it.

For the sake of freedom and human rights, we must say no to war. We must also say no to all forms of foreign intervention that support dictatorships until they become too politically embarrassing to Washington, D.C.

March 19, 2011
 

Lumi

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American Dictatorship

American Dictatorship

American Dictatorship
by Jacob G. Hornberger

Would someone please tell me what limits constrain President Obama in foreign affairs?

A dictator is a government ruler with omnipotent powers, one who has no constitutional or legislative constraints on his powers. Operating through his military, paramilitary, intelligence, and police forces, he can do whatever he chooses to do. He can use his forces, which loyally follow his orders, to attack, arrest, spy, kidnap, torture, rape, abuse, or kill. It?s that principle ? omnipotent power on the part of the ruler ? that defines the dictatorships in the Middle East. It?s what defines dictatorship, period.

Yet, doesn?t President Obama exercise omnipotent powers in foreign affairs? Operating through his military and paramilitary forces, which loyally follow his commands, the president has the power to invade and occupy any nation on earth. He has the power to kidnap any person in the world and send him to prison camps located in various parts of the world. Or he can send prisoners to foreign dictatorships with orders to secure information or a confession through torture. He can spy on and monitor people overseas. He can impose sanctions and embargoes on recalcitrant foreign regimes, even if such measures kill thousands of innocent people in the process.

All this the president can do on his own initiative. In foreign affairs, President Obama can do whatever he wants, and he has the most powerful and loyal military and paramilitary forces in history to carry out his commands.

Of course, the president doesn?t do these things personally, but no dictator personally carries out or enforces his own dictates. That?s what thousands of bureaucratic personnel, including those in the military, are all about. They exist to faithfully and loyally carry out the orders of their boss. That?s the purpose of the U.S. military, the NSA, and the CIA: to serve the president by loyally and obediently carrying out whatever orders he issues.

Consider Libya, for example, another country that has never attacked the United States. The president will soon order his military to attack the Libyan regime of Muammar Gaddafi, killing countless Libyans in the process.

The military will faithfully and loyally carry out the president?s orders and ask Americans to ?support the troops? in the president?s war against the Libyans. Not one single officer or enlisted man will refuse the president?s orders because they all know what will happen if they do. Those who refuse will be arrested, imprisoned, tortured, abused, and severely punished by their superior officers.

Military personnel will convince themselves that by following the president?s orders, they are fulfilling their oath to support and defend the Constitution, protecting ?national security,? and defending the rights and freedoms of the American people.

I repeat: What constitutional and legislative constraints exist on the president?s powers in foreign affairs? Aren?t such powers as omnipotent as those exercised by the biggest dictators in history?

Is an American dictator in foreign affairs what our American ancestors envisioned when they brought the federal government into existence with the Constitution?

On the contrary, their aim was the precise opposite. That?s why the Constitution delegated the power to declare war to Congress, not the president. The Framers made it so the president was prohibited from waging war without first securing a declaration of war from Congress.

Our American ancestors also sent a powerful message to the president with the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments: that he is prohibited from searching people?s homes, businesses, and personal effects without a judicially issued warrant based on probable cause; that he is prohibited from imposing cruel and unusual punishments on people; that he is prohibited from denying due process of law to anyone; and that he is prohibited from denying anyone the right to a jury trial and to a speedy trial.

In other words, our ancestors envisioned a president whose powers were limited, not only on a domestic basis ? that is, not only here within the United States ? but also on a foreign basis. They opposed dictatorship, period.

The president as dictator in foreign affairs has come into existence as part and parcel of the turn that the U.S. government took toward empire. That was when America abandoned its role as a limited-government, constitutional republic. That was when U.S. presidents began ignoring constitutional restraints on power in foreign affairs. That was when the courts began declining to enforce the Constitution in foreign affairs. That was when the American people began deferring to the authority of the president, the Pentagon, the CIA, and the NSA.

In his Fourth of July speech to Congress, John Quincy Adams foretold what would happen to America should she become an empire: ?The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. She might become the dictatress of the world.?

What?s the solution for presidential dictatorship in foreign affairs? The solution is obvious: a dismantling of America?s military empire and a restoration of a limited-government constitutional republic, along with strict constitutional and legislative constraints on the power of the president, together with an independent judiciary with the courage and fortitude willing to enforce them. Most important, as our ancestors taught us, the solution necessitates an aroused citizenry whose hearts and minds are aflame with the principles and spirit of liberty.
__
Jacob Hornberger is founder and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation.
 

THE KOD

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Glad to see Obama wait until France and Great B
stood up to participate.

The real reason the US is in this with Libya is that the CIA found out that Ghaddfi issued the orders to down the plane so many years ago. Not sure how they pinned that down.

But with that in the open its pretty easy to attack and destroy this fawking despot.

So we fire 100 cruise missles yesterday. The cruise missles come in at 1 million or so a pop.

Thats 100 million out of the taxpayers pockets .

AW its just money.

The war machine must go on.
 
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THE KOD

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Former Libyan Justice Minister Mustafa Mohamed Abud al Jeleil, who has broken with Gaddafi and declared himself the head of a caretaker opposition government, was quoted on February 23 as saying Gaddafi himself ordered the Lockerbie bombing.

Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, a Libyan, was sentenced to life in prison in 2001 for his part in blowing up Pan Am 103 but was released by the Scottish government in 2009 when he was judged by doctors to be terminally ill.

A US federal law enforcement official told Reuters that US charges against Megrahi and a second Libyan for the Lockerbie attack remain active and ?the investigation into the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 remains open
.................................................................

Hard to let that shit pass.

Bomb that fawker until his eyes bleed.
 

Trench

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Glad to see Obama wait until France and Great B
stood up to participate.

The real reason the US is in this with Libya is that the CIA found out that Ghaddfi issued the orders to down the plane so many years ago. Not sure how they pinned that down.

But with that in the open its pretty easy to attack and destroy this fawking despot.

So we fire 100 cruise missles yesterday. The cruise missles come in at 1 million or so a pop.

Thats 100 million out of the taxpayers pockets .

AW its just money.

The war machine must go on.
The KOD is back!

Hey, cut Obama some slack. He's been busy picking his NCAA brackets and doing fundraisers. You expect him show some leadership on the world stage too?
 

THE KOD

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The KOD is back!

Hey, cut Obama some slack. He's been busy picking his NCAA brackets and doing fundraisers. You expect him show some leadership on the world stage too?
.........................................................

got to disagree

I think Obama is a great leader and a fine President

Remember it wasnt so long ago when we had a President that was getting his dick sucked in the oval office. That took up a few years in the media.

Give me Obama with his basketball interest any day.

Middle east if a very difficult nut to crack. This could take many years. But we are going in the right direction.

I had to laugh when Saudi Arabia was asked to supply military support to the Libya rebels. Thats too close to home as the King is next to deal with this. They are handing out billions in a effort to get the ppl under control. :142smilie After all they are shitting on gold toilets, why not share some of that money building houses and raising welfare money given out.

When you really think about this it is a bad thing for a goverment to turn and kill their own ppl

But we can go back in our own country to Kent State where students were killed over protests.

And its not too far a stretch to see the teabaggers go bazerk and starting riots in a city and shooting at police or throwing rocks.

You dont think the US would not wipe out some citizens to quell that riot ?

So then could Libya and the middle east send war planes to impose a no fly zone over New York ?

this is one crazy world.
 

Trench

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.........................................................

got to disagree

I think Obama is a great leader and a fine President

Remember it wasnt so long ago when we had a President that was getting his dick sucked in the oval office. That took up a few years in the media.

Give me Obama with his basketball interest any day.
Sorry Scotty, I wanted to believe in the guy and did for a long time but I can't remember the last crisis or situation where Obama actually showed any leadership.

But I have no problem with his interest in hoops. Just givin' him some crap. ;)
 

Skulnik

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I think the Basketball Bracket thing is BORDERLINE RACIST, i'm suprised the P/C crowd hasn't picked up on it.

Barrack Obama is Black, so he must LOVE Basketball.

Just sayin.


:nono:
 

Trampled Underfoot

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While I don't agree with the decision, it is funny to see all the right wing nut jobs going nuts over this. War is your thing neo-con dick suckers. So many fuck sheep in this country blinded by party. Over and over again they trip over their own hypocrisies.
 

ryson

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Does Obama have to give the Nobel Peace Prize back?

"The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009
The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

Oslo, October 9, 2009"
 

Trench

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I think the Basketball Bracket thing is BORDERLINE RACIST, i'm suprised the P/C crowd hasn't picked up on it.

Barrack Obama is Black, so he must LOVE Basketball.

Just sayin.


:nono:
You're a discredit to nerds everywhere, Skulnik. :142slap:
 

Lumi

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<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Mwv655uA_Gw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

1:35 to 1:40 :142smilie
 

Skulnik

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While I don't agree with the decision, it is funny to see all the right wing nut jobs going nuts over this. War is your thing neo-con dick suckers. So many fuck sheep in this country blinded by party. Over and over again they trip over their own hypocrisies.

T U, have you seen this VIDEO?


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cwqh4wQPoQk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:nono:
 

Trampled Underfoot

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T U, have you seen this VIDEO?


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cwqh4wQPoQk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:nono:

Do you not understand the meaning of my post?
 
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