That is one BEAUTIFUL graph... why not just get yourself up in the higher incomes, and you won't have a bitch....
See, some of us do vote in our best interests, believe it or not....
Another question for d&M
- Thread starter Duff Miver
- Start date
That is one BEAUTIFUL graph... why not just get yourself up in the higher incomes, and you won't have a bitch....
See, some of us do vote in our best interests, believe it or not....
1. I don't work for an insurance company.
2. The recission issue is WAY overblown. Appropriate when people don't tell the truth in the application process - and this happens a lot. AND a number of companies had dispicable recission practices that were not fair - that is for sure.
3. It is more than $10B per year - only 6 years of benefits - remember the trick they used?
4. The cost is WAY more than $10B per year - you are forgetting all the tax increases that were included as offsets. And the cuts to Medicare that occurred.
You'll see individual market prices jump 30-40% due to guaranteed issue in 2014. This is the conensus of a number of actuaries I talked to. Part of this is due to the coverage that Obama is mandating (very rich coverage). The other part is all the pent up demand that will drive average claims through the roof.
Who is Obama gonna blame then? Docs? Hospitals? Maybe he'll look in the mirror and realize he should have left well enough alone, and he screwed up the whole system?
I'm not a believer that anyone should get free goods and services without working to pay for them. And that includes health goods and services.
If we are going to give subsidies, the government should require something in return - maybe hours each month for community service for example. Seems like a very fair tradeoff to me.
Last edited:
The recission issue is WAY overblown until it happens to you, a family member or a friend.
Even if the $109 billion CBO figure doesn't account for the 10-6 issue, 109 divided by 6 is $18.1 billion per year.
So all the Tea-Bagger hyperbole over healthcare reform for the past 3 years has been over $10.9 - $18.1 billion per year in spending. The Pentagon spends $80 billion per year just on research and development of new weapons. To fight who... rogue terrorists and third world dictators like Osama Bin Laden and Mohmar Qadaffi??
Until you "fiscal conservatives" want to begin discussing defense cuts, you have zero credibility on the subject of "fiscal solvency".
Btw... that $80 billion the Pentagon spends evey year is just on R&D. They spend another $140 billion a year on procurement of those weapons.
Last edited:
- Feb 26, 2001
- 13,593
- 164
- 63
Exactly. I am tired of these moral pieces of shit like doggie wanting to take food out of the single mom's mouth down the street so we can go kill more brown people around the world. I pray everyday there really is a hell for people like him.
I have not pored over the Affordable Healthcare Act.
I do not think the math makes sense - how we are going to extend coverage to 30 million+ more people and save money? Looking over ANY government plan, they usually cost more than they initially say they will and do less.
Would I like to see everyone have affordable health coverage? Yes -
Do I think it should be 'free'? No - to a lot of people 'free' removes all value from it.
As a society, we have a duty to provide for the less fortunate - to a point - but I do not want a nanny state in America.
I have an acquaintance who is a general physician. He says one more 'doc fix' and he is out of business.
And, he is not a 'wealthy' physician just trying to maintain his exorbitant income.
I do not think the math makes sense - how we are going to extend coverage to 30 million+ more people and save money? Looking over ANY government plan, they usually cost more than they initially say they will and do less.
Would I like to see everyone have affordable health coverage? Yes -
Do I think it should be 'free'? No - to a lot of people 'free' removes all value from it.
As a society, we have a duty to provide for the less fortunate - to a point - but I do not want a nanny state in America.
I have an acquaintance who is a general physician. He says one more 'doc fix' and he is out of business.
And, he is not a 'wealthy' physician just trying to maintain his exorbitant income.
I couldn't disagree more with this statement.
The entreprenuerial spirit is born of the middle-class. The vast majority of business startups have always been the result of middle-class people (and to a lesser degree, lower-class people) who had an idea and built a business from their garage or their kitchen table. When was the last time Poindexter or Muffy created a business? They have no incentive to do anything but live off the wealth their middle-class grandfather or great-grandfather created.
Putting money in the hands of the middle-class is exactly what creates jobs in this country. Always has been.
hmmm....
Last time Poindexter created a business?
Let's see.....anyone know of a guy named Mark Zuckerberg? Went to Harvard and created something but I can't quite put my finger on it.....
Anyway - the comment that give a middle class person $1000 and it will be spent in a week whereas the rich will just hoard it? Someone said something along those lines....what does the middle class guy spend the $1000 on in a week? Service jobs - he goes to a bar or a restaurant or gets his oil changed, etc.
Remove the wealthy from this economy and see how many jobs get created. All I am saying.
The "rich get richer" statement is true. How do they keep getting richer? By hoarding their money?
Last time Poindexter created a business?
Let's see.....anyone know of a guy named Mark Zuckerberg? Went to Harvard and created something but I can't quite put my finger on it.....
Anyway - the comment that give a middle class person $1000 and it will be spent in a week whereas the rich will just hoard it? Someone said something along those lines....what does the middle class guy spend the $1000 on in a week? Service jobs - he goes to a bar or a restaurant or gets his oil changed, etc.
Remove the wealthy from this economy and see how many jobs get created. All I am saying.
The "rich get richer" statement is true. How do they keep getting richer? By hoarding their money?
That CEO from Ford that gave himself a 56 million dollar bonus. How much of that 56 million do you think will see the light of day in our lifetime? Multiply that dead money by millions of these CEO types and you might begin to see the problem.
Now if you give that money t the workers, they will buy things and in turn get the economy going again. It will never start with all the money sitting in the coffers of the overly rich.
How much risk does a Goldman VP have? What has HE put up for multi-million salary and bonuses?
For that matter what does any banker put up? Other people's money.
Big freaking risk.
What has Bill Ford put up? Money that Henry made ?
The CEO's of Exxon-Mobil, Chevron, Halliburton, Wal*Mart, etc? What risk have they taken? They put up nothing, take no risk. If the company prospers, they get tens or hundreds of millions. If they fuck up, they get a multi-million golden parachute.:shrug:
Last edited:
Muff:
I hate Goldman Sachs and investment bankers. I would not throw any one of them a rope if they were drowning.
Ford did not take a bailout during the financial crisis yet leveraged all their cash and assets to get loans. They had risk on the table, much more so than Government Motors.
I hate Goldman Sachs and investment bankers. I would not throw any one of them a rope if they were drowning.
Ford did not take a bailout during the financial crisis yet leveraged all their cash and assets to get loans. They had risk on the table, much more so than Government Motors.
You really think entrepreneurs take tax money and use it to start companies or do you think they borrow from friends and family and a local bank to start a company?
Zuckerberg went to a private prep jewish school - those aren't cheap - call him what you will but I do no think he was your 'middle-class' kid.
StevieD:
"millions of CEO's-" really? You think there are MILLIONS of CEO's in this country making $56 million bonuses?
NO - there are NOT.
These insane bonuses make the headlines but it is not the norm.
Zuckerberg went to a private prep jewish school - those aren't cheap - call him what you will but I do no think he was your 'middle-class' kid.
StevieD:
"millions of CEO's-" really? You think there are MILLIONS of CEO's in this country making $56 million bonuses?
NO - there are NOT.
These insane bonuses make the headlines but it is not the norm.
According to most neo-cons anyone with any big type of money started from nothing and are self made men. U would think they would have no problem with the inheritance tax since all these guys are super human and can make millions out of nothing. I wonder where 95 percent of them would be without the old money that was toss on their laps in the first place.
I think these crooks should be put in their place. This guy took $7,500 rebates for how many cars?
He shouild pay that back before he accepts one penny of a bonus.
There are way too many of these guys and these guys control more money that the bottome 50% that you worry so much about because they got a voucher for free milk or something.
I believe just two Ford execs took $100 million between themselves.
Government Motors, huh?
Without the GM & Chrysler bailouts, most of the parts suppliers would have failed and Ford likely would have failed as well. But who cares about auto workers, tire, steel, glass & parts manufacturers, tens of thousands of dealerships, and the untold number of other businesses that likely would have failed had the domestic auto makers been allowed to fail.
StevieD:
There are approximately 5000 CEO's of companies that can support the bloated pay scale.
There are approximately 5000 CEO's of companies that can support the bloated pay scale.
Trench:
I am against all bailouts and subsidies. Just who I am. I would have rather had the US economy fail than to see what we have done.
I blame the Goons on Wall Street in bed with the goons in DC. I have an article here that I will post when I find it. Makes my blood boil.
I am against all bailouts and subsidies. Just who I am. I would have rather had the US economy fail than to see what we have done.
I blame the Goons on Wall Street in bed with the goons in DC. I have an article here that I will post when I find it. Makes my blood boil.
