any thoughts on this bail out

DOGS THAT BARK

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WASHINGTON ? Federal bank regulators have rejected a request by banks and consumer advocates for a program to let lenders forgive huge portions of credit card debt.

The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency rejected the request for a special program that would allow as much as 40 percent of credit card debt to be forgiven for consumers who don't qualify for existing repayment plans.

An unusual alliance of financial industry interests and consumer advocates, represented by the Financial Services Roundtable and the Consumer Federation of America, made the request to the Treasury Department agency on Oct. 29. It demonstrated the urgency of the situation in a deepening economic crisis: consumers ? even those with strong credit records ? defaulting at high levels on their credit cards, while banks battered by the credit crisis bleed tens of billions from the losses.

An agency official said the government objects to allowing banks to defer losses for several years on the forgiven debt, as would occur in accounting by lenders under the special program.

The agency "does not consider any plan that defers the timely recognition of loss as prudent, and any such proposal cannot be viewed favorably by us," Timothy Long, senior deputy comptroller for bank supervision policy, said in a letter to the two groups dated Monday and made public Wednesday.

"The timely identification, reporting and management of credit losses, along with adequate loan-loss reserves and capital levels, provide the public with ... confidence" in the banking system, Long wrote.

The Financial Services Roundtable, which represents more than 100 large banks, brokerage firms and insurance companies, will "continue to look for ways to help consumers in these extraordinary times," said the group's senior vice president, Scott Talbott.

Travis Plunkett, legislative director of Consumer Federation, said that with the number of deeply indebted consumers growing dramatically, "we still hope to work with bank regulators or Congress to create an alternative" to bankruptcy for them.

Under the proposal, borrowers would be able to defer payment of income taxes they owe on the forgiven part of the credit card debt until after the remainder was paid off. The lenders could wait until then to book their losses on the forgiven debt.

The two groups hoped such a pilot program would become permanent and that as many as 50,000 people struggling with credit card debt would be involved. On an individual basis, the amount of debt to be forgiven would rise according to the severity of the borrower's financial situation, up to a maximum of 40 percent. Consumers would be allowed to pay back the remainder over several years.

The largest credit-card banks each set aside between $1 billion and $3.5 billion in the third quarter for losses on card loans as their profits plummeted.

The biggest credit card lenders include Discover Financial Services LLC, Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co., Capital One Financial Corp., American Express Co. and HSBC Holdings.

Credit card charge-off rates, balances written off as unpaid, rose to 6.8 percent in August, up 48 percent from a year earlier, according to Moody's Investors Service.

Americans are weighed down by about $900 billion in credit card debt, according to the latest available Federal Reserve figures.
 

StevieD

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Lets not forget that those that made ONE BILLION in pay and bonus had it taxed as CAPITAL GAINS...some paying only 14% taxes on that kind of money. Its no wonder the "hedge funds" exploded in growth. It was a gravy train. But you had to have a million bucks in the bank to get into a hedge fund...and they're "secret"...all this going on while the middle class disappears.
And so many strange investment tools..like Derivatives...that few seem to understand. Now it seems Fannie Mae, and Freddie need more billions to survive. Eight years of this lunacy and the United States is headed to being a BANANA REPUBLIC...Our forefathers warned us that our form of government could be destroyed if we didn't keep a watchful eye. Seems that Bush 41's "new world order" is here..thanks to sonny boy...that heard voices...he thought it was God talking to him...
SICKENING

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...



Fund Chiefs Back Oversight
Managers Tell Lawmakers They Would Give Data to Regulators

Fund Chiefs Back Oversight
Selling Them Short
"The systemic risks have grown larger, yet federal regulators have virtually no oversight of your industry," said Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which called the managers to testify. "And that's a potentially dangerous situation."

The hearing came as Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), ranking member on the Finance Committee, announced he would reintroduce legislation to require hedge funds to register with the Securities and Exchange Commission. No agency now has jurisdiction over the funds.

The five managers -- who were paid an average of more than $1 billion last year, according to the committee -- told the panel that hedge funds were not responsible for the current crisis, but said they would be willing to support transparency in the industry. Several said they believe that the funds create risk in the financial system.


"The entire regulatory framework needs to be reconsidered, and hedge funds need to be regulated within that framework," said investor George Soros, a well-known supporter of liberal causes and chairman of Soros Fund Management. "But we must beware of going overboard with regulation."

Hedge funds, sometimes called a shadow banking system, are private investment funds that do not advertise to the public and cater to wealthy individuals and institutional investors. They are not required to register with the federal government, which lacks the regulatory authority to obtain information to help measure their risk to the economy.

Lawmakers also criticized the managers for taking advantage of a tax loophole that lets much of the money they earn be taxed at a rate of 15 percent -- far lower than the 35 percent tax rate for most wealthy Americans and even lower than the 25 percent rate for working-class Americans who earn $35,000 a year.

"So Joe the Plumber is being taxed at a higher rate?" said Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.). "Does this seem fair to you?"

The House has voted to close the loophole twice before, but the measure died in the Senate. Most of the fund managers said they would support legislation that would close the loophole, as long as it applied to other industries that benefit from it.

In addition to Soros, the managers that testified were John Alfred Paulson, president of Paulson & Co.; James Simons, president of Renaissance Technologies; Philip A. Falcone, senior managing partner of Harbinger Capital Partners; and Kenneth C. Griffin, chief executive and president of Citadel Investment Group.

The managers gave the committee detailed information on their business -- including executive compensation and internal e-mails -- but the panel has so far chosen not to release it.

The pressure for greater regulation mounted as the hedge-fund world exploded from a cottage industry of 200 funds worth $1.5 billion in 1969 to 9,000 funds worth $2 trillion today. The calls for heightened scrutiny increased when Long-Term Capital Management, a Connecticut-based fund, lost half of its capital and the Federal Reserve in 1998 had to arrange a $3.6 billion rescue package to prevent its collapse.

The SEC created a rule in 2004 that required the managers to register with the agency, make some information public and allow the agency to inspect its books. But the program was struck down by a federal court two years later and the SEC did not appeal the ruling. The legislation Grassley intends to introduce would make it clear that the SEC has the authority to regulate the funds.

Speaking before the panel, the fund managers said they would be willing to provide data to a regulator who could then transfer it to the Federal Reserve, which could use the information to monitor systemic risk to the economy. But the managers said they would vigorously oppose the public release of details about their investment strategies.

"To ask us to disclose our positions to the open market would parallel asking Coca-Cola to disclose their secret formula to the world," Griffin said.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Ok I'm confused--but I think I got it

--your for debtors getting free ride on irresponsiblity

--but against savers getting tax break on capital gains.

--and were an ardant O supporter
--what else is new:shrug:

Now if your mad about bonus's being taxed as capital gains--what are you going to do when self employed go to S-corps and are paid by dividends instead of salary--and climb on the ssn wagon @ 62 with no offsetting income (divs aren't counted as income) and your left footing the tab for your base. You better get use to it ;)

It's in chapter 2 of my book--
If you can't beat em--join em :)
 

rusty

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Under a mask.
Im willing to pay my CCD,but how about a resonable percentage rate also.

The CC Companies are robbing us blind(most anyway)!
 

ImFeklhr

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This is why bailouts are a bad idea to begin with. Since you can't bailout everyone, it ends up helping some and leaving some behind.

How is it fair to bailout 3 or 4 or 5 companies in a recession, but ignore everyone else?

It further devides the country. Creating camps that favor one bailout over another.
 

StevieD

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Ok I'm confused--but I think I got it

--your for debtors getting free ride on irresponsiblity

--but against savers getting tax break on capital gains.

--and were an ardant O supporter
--what else is new:shrug:

Now if your mad about bonus's being taxed as capital gains--what are you going to do when self employed go to S-corps and are paid by dividends instead of salary--and climb on the ssn wagon @ 62 with no offsetting income (divs aren't counted as income) and your left footing the tab for your base. You better get use to it ;)

It's in chapter 2 of my book--
If you can't beat em--join em :)

You are the one bitching about the rich paying taxes. But they only pay a cap gain tax on their bonus's. Explain how that is fair? Oh and by the way I do not call CEO's and their butt buddies as the achievers. I call the middle class guy paying a mortgage and going to work everyday and raising a couple of kids and driving an old car because it is the best he can afford an achiever. I call your over paid CEO buddies crooked POS's.
 

ImFeklhr

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DTB... what are your thoughts?

rather than just proposing a topic... tell us genuinly, in a positive manner, what you think is best for this country.

Don't mention deadbeats, or Obama, or anything negative.... in positive words, describe what you think will work best.

If you were made dictator for a day, what would you do? and how would you explain it?
 

smurphy

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DTB... what are your thoughts?

rather than just proposing a topic... tell us genuinly, in a positive manner, what you think is best for this country.

Don't mention deadbeats, or Obama, or anything negative.... in positive words, describe what you think will work best.

If you were made dictator for a day, what would you do? and how would you explain it?

:0corn
 

Jabberwocky

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DTB... what are your thoughts?

rather than just proposing a topic... tell us genuinly, in a positive manner, what you think is best for this country.

Don't mention deadbeats, or Obama, or anything negative.... in positive words, describe what you think will work best.

If you were made dictator for a day, what would you do? and how would you explain it?

good luck on that.
 

ELVIS

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its all disgusting. if you make a billion dollars than your a$$ should be paying 30 percent in taxes...... how do earn a billipn anyway ?

on a side note, very comforting that my wife and have paid off over 15k of debt this year and so many just walk away.....

CC companies are at blame as well - no one should be allowed to have multiple cc's w/o proper proof of income, etc. i had 10 cc in college and didn't make shit. it took years to pay that shit off. i now do not charge anything unless i am on a vacation or buying online. the balance is paid off every month, and rarely do i even have a balance. cc are as evil as insurance companies. imho

its all a fuking joke at this point. cannot wait until i am standing in line w/ illegals waiting for my meds... when the wifey and i am taxed to point of losing our home, and dead beats get more gov cheese at every turn.

this is why we ran up 90k of student loans, to live like the guy who didn't even attend school in the first place.....and has bought everything on credit and couldn't pay it back if he had 2 lifetimes....
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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DTB... what are your thoughts?

rather than just proposing a topic... tell us genuinly, in a positive manner, what you think is best for this country.

Don't mention deadbeats, or Obama, or anything negative.... in positive words, describe what you think will work best.

If you were made dictator for a day, what would you do? and how would you explain it?

It;s too late I'm afraid Fek--

We became a nation of debtors and both sides responsible. Only hope IMO is to tighten loans like they used to be--10% down and have to qualify.

Change credit card to similiar to debit cards--If your month behind--your cut off.

The problem is too way street--institutions dangling the carrot to those who have no business being offered credit.

Would be hell to pay on economy for couple of years but would be better off for it it the end.

Only thing keeping us afloat is other countries supporting our habit by buying our commercial paper (bonds) If time comes and they see no light at end of tunnel--you'll see an unprecedented run on back (U.S.)

Someone got to stop the spending--and you can't operate much outside 80/20 rule for extended period of time without revolt in some form--and we will be 50/50 by end of 4 years unless there are drastic changes--which I don't see coming.

I certainly think it prudent to not have all savings in U.S. $--would certainly diversify--like Aus $ because of its strict gold tandard--but fav is RMB or Yaun (Chinese)--
Canada up there also--they do good job of balancing their books.

Saddest thing on this past ordeal is institutions who were responsible were bailed out to prevent collapse--would have been justice had only one or 2 been responsible and been allowed to fail without finanacial havoc resulting.
 

djv

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Why the rich always pee and moen about there tax is unreal. Most have lawyers to make sure they don't pay anymore then some other poor sucker making 150000 grand. Ya poor guy. There so lucky to live here and not like say Norway or Denmark. Like guy who just won world poker tourney. What he get 8 mill. Our Gov took not a dime. Denmark where he lives took 70%. So USA rich guys no bitching.
Bail Out something needs to be done. I would say several things. We can't do nothing like Hoover. Unless you want 26% unemployment and bread lines.
 

ImFeklhr

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It;s too late I'm afraid Fek--

We became a nation of debtors and both sides responsible. Only hope IMO is to tighten loans like they used to be--10% down and have to qualify.

Change credit card to similiar to debit cards--If your month behind--your cut off.

The problem is too way street--institutions dangling the carrot to those who have no business being offered credit.

Would be hell to pay on economy for couple of years but would be better off for it it the end.

Only thing keeping us afloat is other countries supporting our habit by buying our commercial paper (bonds) If time comes and they see no light at end of tunnel--you'll see an unprecedented run on back (U.S.)

Someone got to stop the spending--and you can't operate much outside 80/20 rule for extended period of time without revolt in some form--and we will be 50/50 by end of 4 years unless there are drastic changes--which I don't see coming.

I certainly think it prudent to not have all savings in U.S. $--would certainly diversify--like Aus $ because of its strict gold tandard--but fav is RMB or Yaun (Chinese)--
Canada up there also--they do good job of balancing their books.

Saddest thing on this past ordeal is institutions who were responsible were bailed out to prevent collapse--would have been justice had only one or 2 been responsible and been allowed to fail without finanacial havoc resulting.

I'm sorry I asked. I agree with you and now I want to medicate myself. I see Argentina in our future. Nice country, decent infrastructure, smart people, booms and busts, no stability, eventually an irrelevant country.
 

Tina Yothers

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Hmmm Didn't know people that used cards as they were intended and paid balance each month paid any interest?:SIB

If that was their intended use, why would the banks offer them again? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

As for the interest rates, they are negotiable. Taking the first one they give you is not a wise move. If you have decent credit and have a rate over 10%, call them up and ask for a better rate. If you have more than one card, transfer balances and start playing them against each other.

DogsThatBark - Credit cards are a financial instrument. I know guys who took advantage of cc offers to buy mutual funds, cars, etc.
 

Tina Yothers

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PS: Bailing out cc debt is a ridiculous concept, and so is limiting interest charges. It is a market. If you can't find someone willing to give you a decent rate on a card, you shouldn't be in the market and you should probably be looking into a second job.
 

hedgehog

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paying cc interest is just stupid,unless you are in abind and have too, cc should only be used like cash. My wife and I have 1 cc that we put everything on each month and pay off at the end of each month, I have not paid 1 penny in cc interest in my whole life. I also like the perks of getting 1% cash back, just for using plastic instead of cash. If it wasn't for the 1% back I would just carry cash only.

I don't like debit cards, too many receipts
 

kosar

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paying cc interest is just stupid,unless you are in abind and have too, cc should only be used like cash. My wife and I have 1 cc that we put everything on each month and pay off at the end of each month, I have not paid 1 penny in cc interest in my whole life. I also like the perks of getting 1% cash back, just for using plastic instead of cash. If it wasn't for the 1% back I would just carry cash only.

I don't like debit cards, too many receipts

Debit cards produce more receipts than credit cards for each transaction?
 
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