any thoughts--

DOGS THAT BARK

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from this report from International Monetary Fund and where best chance of recovery lies--
Would appear to China and India maybe--any thoughts.

WASHINGTON: In its bleakest forecast in years, the International Monetary Fund said on Wednesday that the world economy was set for a major downturn, with the United States and Europe either in or on the brink of recession.

The IMF said a still-developing financial upheaval - the most violent since the 1930s - would exact a heavy economic toll as markets wrestle with a crisis of confidence and global credit is choked off.

The IMF's assessment was written before a globally coordinated interest- rate cut of half a percentage point on Wednesday by the U.S. Federal Reserve, European Central Bank, Bank of England, Switzerland, Canada and Sweden.

China also cut its key rate 27 basis points and its reserve requirements for banks by half a percentage point.

The joint move followed weeks of unprecedented turmoil in global markets that has frozen money markets, even as central banks have pumped billions of dollars into the global financial system.


IMF predicts $1.4 trillion in losses from crisis China may hold key to calming the storm

"The world economy is now entering a major downturn in the face of the most dangerous shock in mature financial markets since the 1930s," the IMF said in its World Economic Outlook.

In hindsight, the IMF said lax economic and regulatory policies probably allowed the global economy to "exceed its speed limit." At the same time, market flaws, together with policy shortcomings, allowed stresses to build.

Now, the global economy is about to pay the price.

The IMF slashed its 2009 forecast for world growth to 3 percent, which would be the slowest pace in seven years, from a July projection of 3.9 percent, and warned that a recovery would be unusually slow.

It said growth this year would come in at 3.9 percent, a touch below the 4.1 percent it projected in July.

The IMF had believed developing economies could largely steer clear of any painful economic spillover from the credit mess stemming from the deep U.S. housing slump. But no longer.

In its latest report, the global economic watchdog warned emerging and developing economies are also slowing, in some cases to rates well below trend.

At the same time, the combination of soaring food and fuel prices has pushed inflation to levels unseen in a decade, the IMF said, exacting an especially heavy toll in the developing world where families' spending on food is high.

In advanced economies, oil price increases have also been felt, but underlying price pressures appear to be contained, it added.

The immediate challenge for policy-makers is to stabilize credit markets, while nursing economies through the global downturn and keeping inflation under control, the fund said.

It said the U.S. economy would screech to halt and warned a recession was increasingly likely with gross domestic product likely to contract in the final quarter of this year and the first quarter of 2009.

For all of next year, it projected U.S. growth of just 0.1 percent.

"The United States has been at the center of the intensifying global financial storm," the fund said, "and the economy is now slowing fast."

The near-term course of the U.S. economy, the IMF said, will largely depend on the effectiveness of recent government initiatives to combat the spreading credit crisis.

In Europe, the crisis has stalled growth, and interest-rate cuts and decisive government action to restore confidence to prevent a lasting slowdown are needed, the report said.

The fund said growth in the euro zone was likely to slow to 1.3 percent in 2008 and ease further to a scant 0.2 percent in 2009.

The Asian powers China and India will also experience slower growth on weaker exports, but should continue to be supported by solid private consumption, it said.

Growth in China is likely to come in at 9.7 percent this year and 9.3 percent in 2009 - compared to 11.9 percent in 2007, the IMF said. India will grow 7.9 percent this year and slow to 6.9 percent in 2009, it said. The Indian economy grew 9.3 percent last year.
Elsewhere in Asia, domestic demand has also softened as high food and fuel prices have weighed on consumption, while declining profit margins and weakening demand have prompted firms to scale back investment plans.

In Africa, the IMF said steady years of growth would be rocked by the financial crisis and higher inflation, although oil producing countries would come off lighter from the economic slowdown
 

selkirk

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DTB the lower energy prices help out China and India the most, major energy importers... also lower resource prices will also help...for the same reason.

the other two countries (BRIC) Brazil and Russia are going to face with the decline in resource prices, Russia even more.

believe China and India will grow by more or recover quicker. however if this continues the US will be very lucky to have .1%, and world growth of 3%.

the main fear is not +1 or -1, -2% economic growth but something much worse. if world growth is negative cannot see how China and India will grow anywhere close to that number.
the lack of capital and the drop off in exports will bring the China and India number closer to zero than 9%

US and Europe will trail however these are two big for the world economy to ignore, and would drag everything down.

thanks
selkirk
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Kirk Would like your thoughts on this-haven't seen it in any print or commentary but I've been thinking about.

Would a country like China where people have no credits cards and little debt other than homes--benefit if bad credit crunch in other countries hit.
Or do you think their market would turn down along with other markets in general?
 

selkirk

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DTB we will get the latest China GDP coming out on Monday (90% sure), anyways if they report +7% or higher then the market could go higher, even 6-9% is a good sign.

believe that Libor rates will slowly come down and the credit and debt problem will not be solved however treated, they will print money, and flood the system with money. they will worry about the inflation this will cause later, and raise rates and tighten the credit markets. if this does not work then the bearish article I posted will come true.

China will probably handle this better than most; to answer your question it is how bad does it get, if we get slow growth then though China will slow it will still grow.

however if it gets really bad then it become like a game of dominos, the companies that rely on exports would fall first, and then it just gets worse.
people who toss around the depression, believe this is not one, however it effected every country, though not all at once...

much of the China GDP depends on exports though this will be less important over time as the economy and middle class grow ( will always be improtant though). In short if the US and Europe get ill, it effect everyone, in the late 90s one region Asia had a crisis and it plunged the world in an economic crisis. this would be worse.

it is my belief that they will flood the system with cash and that libor rates come down, we will not fix our problems, however we put off death (or a terrilbe illness) for a few more decades....ect.

thanks
selkirk
 
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