anyone think Gore will get in race?

[kosar]

Jack,

No reason to read the rest of the thread, you got the gist of his comments in that one post.

Annie,

Yeah, wtf, 15k a year? More Freeze for ya. Seriously, if this was a new guy I would think he was just messing around, pulling our chains. That's how insane his comments are. But he's been spouting this stuff consistently for a long time here, so I can only assume that he actually believes what he says. That's sad, and God help his patients(if ever he by some incredible chance that becomes an doctor.)

Houston, we have a problem.

 

[acehistr8]

I think in re-reading his 15k quote what he was trying to say is that if you live in the US and make 15K you are in the top .001% of standard of living worldwide. I am guessing he is insinuating those folks are well off as hell COMPARED TO all the poor/starving/indigent people in the world. If you re-read his quote I think that is what he was saying.

And I'm sorry but top shelf Blue Cross single insurance in DC is $175/month. I dont know what bare minimum, major medical only at a entry level HMO might run, maybe half as much. If you get laid off, you have COBRA to turn to, after that, unemployment assistance from which you could pay. Notice I said could. I chose not to. I dont feel bad for people who dont have insurance and get sick, sorry I dont. I didnt carry it for 10 months, if I had gotten sick, I wouldnt expect any of you to feel sorry for me. No more than I would feel sorry for someone who didnt want to carry fire insurance then their home burned down. What we are talking about is such a small relative cost its absurd. Again, 6.6 MILLION FAMILIES earning $75,000(!!!) choose not to pay for insurance. Thats ridiculous and it doesnt make me sad one bit that they get sick and have to pay.

 

[dr. freeze]

hey i know a lot of Mexicans in this town that make 15K a year and send over half of it back to there family in Mexico....and they have a much greater standard of living then people in this country did say 125 years ago living in this area or for that matter 99% of Africa today....or 99% of the USSR 25 years ago....yet they are treated like their life is somehow inferior and that they are not able to live happily....well, truth be told, if a guy could live with his own hands during pioneer times with next to nothing, a fulfilling life can be lived today with much more stuff than that guy ever could dream of.....yet this "poverty line" keeps moving upwards with the standard of living in our country.....i am glad that is the case, but i am sick of all the class warfare being waged by anti-American agendas saying that we do not take care of our poor because they live pretty well -- not in comparison to Bill Gates, but in comparison to the average guy in the history of the world.

you people don't get my point -- i am comparing OUR standard of living across time and across history (well i did from a post months ago which got brought back up again)....and saying that instead of the greed in our culture which commands a 4 bedroom house or luxury apartment in a nice neighborhood and says that anything below that is impoverished -- i am saying something is wrong with that picture.....WE DON'T KNOW WHAT POVERTY IS IN THIS COUNTRY. Our "poor" would be considered rich in the context of the history of the world. Look how the richest of the Romans lived. Did they have antibiotics?? how about cars?? How about television?? how about A/C?? on the list goes....yet a guy who makes 15K can live with all those things....(FYI most towns have neighborhoods where rent is 400$ or so for a nice place -- at least outsied the NE and West Coast)

most doctors i know eat up 25-30% of their bills because people don't pay.....the way our system has lots of problems...but saying that people do not have health care is ridiculous which was the original intent of my post....because EVERYONE has access to health care and most doctors i know forgive the bill that they incur if unable to pay (thats not to say the hospital or drug companies will do that -- they won't in most cases but thats a separate issue) -- and if you are indigent, you get everything for free.

I personally would not pay for insurance that copays for everything. That is a waste of $$ IMO. Insurance is for crises -- i would much rahter save my money with a policy with a 1000$ deductable and pay for doctor's visits, drugs, etc. out of pocket. Lots of money would be saved doing this in the long run. Plus it would eliminate needless jobs out of the doctor's office needed to argue with insurance companies and needless jobs with insurance companies needed to argue with doctors. AND it puts the dollar back into play by adding a little competition among drugstores and doctors for their products. All these things would lower health care. But no Americans want to be fleeced by only paying 20$ for their yearly check-up instead of 100$ but also paying 1500$ extra out of their check to their insurance company and to the doctor for hiring people to argue with the insurance people.

 

[dr. freeze]

Jack,

No reason to read the rest of the thread, you got the gist of his comments in that one post.

Annie,

Yeah, wtf, 15k a year? More Freeze for ya. Seriously, if this was a new guy I would think he was just messing around, pulling our chains. That's how insane his comments are. But he's been spouting this stuff consistently for a long time here, so I can only assume that he actually believes what he says. That's sad, and God help his patients(if ever he by some incredible chance that becomes an doctor.)

Houston, we have a problem.

no God help my patients if you were their doctor because after they talked to you, they would feel as if they were somehow inferior because they did not make what you feel is necessary to lead a fulfilling life....they would walk out of your office disenfranchised

they will walk out of my office someday with a fighting attitude and thankful for everything they have and will be encouraged for the life that the are leading and will have hope instilled in them and will not have their eyes focused on their pities but instead on doing what they can with their resources to help others....which is what leads to true joy deep down in a person

 

[dr. freeze]

I keep seeing FREE. Nothing is free someone pays for it. Thats us folks that have insurance that has gone up like nuts last 2/3 years. If I here the clinic and hospital say everythings gone up one more time. Chit I say 12% to 15% a year that's BS.
And back To Al Gore. why should he run. Who wants the mess waiting for them. Chit load of unpayed bills. Interst rates about ready to explode. I never seen a republican spend so much money like Bush has. I thought he might be the answer. I was wrong.

quite correct DJV and to be honest, the states and counties pay for most of the indigent care.....and things are going way up because no one works in the hospitals as nurses -- their salaries are going way up -- and the AMA puts limits on the # of doctors -- that inhibits competition....and everyone copays which eliminates compeition....and there are many needless jobs fighting over procedures/tests/diagnoses etc which everyone is paying for.....

its all a big mess....and i agree that Bush is spending way too much...

but still....everyone has access to health care...amazingly...

and if you can't afford your health care, talk to your doctor and depending on what part of the country you live, most will help you out in one way or another

 

[kosar]

"I think in re-reading his 15k quote what he was trying to say is that if you live in the US and make 15K you are in the top .001% of standard of living worldwide. I am guessing he is insinuating those folks are well off as hell COMPARED TO all the poor/starving/indigent people in the world. If you re-read his quote I think that is what he was saying."


Ace,

Obviously that's what he was saying in this thread because that's what he said in this thread(as absolutely irrelevant as it is). WTF? The references were from another thread where he said that Americans, today(not Rome in 1652), could live comfortably on 15k a year and how the poverty liine as defined by our government is way too 'liberal'.

Regardless of what you and Freeze think, it's not nearly always a 'choice' not to be able to purchase proper health care, presriptions, etc.

You keep quoting 175/month for a young single male. Believe it or not, you're not in the majority.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

DJV is 100% correct "somebodys pays". If the impoverished have medicade or SSI the tax payer foots the bill. If they are indingent(spl) and have none of the above the bill is passed on to those with insurance thru a term we use called "cost shifting" which means nothing less than higher cost of services and higher cost of insurance to pay for those services. It is the biggest reason for rising health care cost.

I think I have said before I have $2,500 deductible plan with BC BS for last 20 years. They have never had to pay a penny. I am willing to risk a stop loss of $7,500 ($2,500 ded $5,000
co- insurance in worst case scenerio)---also could go to VA hospital if I knew in advance.
Now while it seems with a $2,500 ded I will not receive any benefits if I stay healthy,that is not necessarily correct.
By having BC BS anyone in their network has to accept what they deem reaonable and customary charge.
Case in point: I just dug out bill from my last physical.
The lab charge (by Labcorp of America) was $150.50--BC BS only approved $31.30 of charge as reasonable,therefore that was all I was obligated to pay. So I saved $119.20 despite having large deductible.

 

[acehistr8]

You keep quoting 175/month for a young single male. Believe it or not, you're not in the majority.

OK well all I know is I live in one of the most expensive markets in the country and this is one of the most expensive, top shelf insurance companies in this area, the 175 is for their best package. There are so many insurance companies out there, probably thousands, I doubt you would do worse if you spent a while shopping online, especially if you only get major medical.

 

[Pujo21]

For everyone: Whatever insurance you may be looking for...

AVOID" MET LIFE "--- they are a bunch of cut throats !

 

[djv]

Family plan for me, wife and I only. Kids all on there own. $658 a month. Thats with a 500 deduct. It was still $619 for 1000 deduct. But what gets me it was $456 just 2.5 years ago. Hey folks im willing to take a 6/8% hit. But you can do the math.

 

[SixFive]

my new plan for family costs 212 every 2 weeks which my employer matches. 15 for office visit and pays 100% for ANY outpaitient or inpatient procedures, hospital stay, etc. 'scripts are 15, 25, or 35 and 40 or 50 for a 3 month supply. Most expensive I've ever had, but the best too.

 

[ferdville]

Alot of good points on both sides here. I agree that many people without health insurance "choose" to be without health insurance because of the cost. Do you believe that all employers and/or the government must supply health care? There are also many that simply cannot get health care. Try being on the high side of 50 with a few medical problems. If you can get insurance, you are looking at more than $500 per month. In California, illegal aliens cost taxpayers more than 60 billion dollars yearly in expense, much of it health related. is their health care free? Yes and no. Free to them but paid by taxpayers. Maybe some of the Canadians can chime in here. Mst of the socialistic countries that provide free health care do so by forcing exhorbitant tax rates on citizens, sometimes in the range of 60%. Then when the rich in those countries need something, they come to the US.

Turfgrass, on the original subject, couldn't agree more. Bush is losing support among people like you and me. He is trying to replace people like us by reaching out to the poor and minorities because he knows what appeals to them. I can see him having some problems in 2004. He deserves to hae these problems.

 

[Nosigar]

$175 a month for family insurance???

Dang, better bring your own band-aids.
Who's the practitioner, a witch doctor - vodoo

 

[AR182]

i saw dick morris this evening on oreilly & he thinks that gore is testing the waters for a run in 04. morris also said that he doesn't think a guy like cuomo would publically voice his support for gore without first speaking to gore.
i don't think gore either will beat bush.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Saw that too AR. Morris is pretty sharp cookie and has ran campaigns on both sides of the fence including Clinton.
Not many in the field of politics more privy to inside info than he.

 

[SixFive]

I saw a clip of Gore last night berating George Bush and talking about how this was the worst government and economy in 200 years. I hope he does run because I know he will lose. As far as that goes, bring on Hillary.

 

[djv]

Well sixfive it is strange how 200 billion surplus just 2 years ago has become over 400 billion deficit. Cant get unemployment below 6%. Last two years wage earners real money in there check less then 1%. Thats down from 3%. And now we sit in Iraq with half the country wishing we would just go someplace else.
Health care at not only a high. But a on controlled high. Taxes cut by the feds were just shifted to the states. Less money to the states means new taxes or fees coming. 44 states running deficits that were in the green just 18 months ago. Something wrong someplace. Maybe it's Bush's spending spree he's been on. I cant believe he calls himself a republican. He acts more far left with our money then anyone I can remember.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I will say 1st I was not in favor of his tax cuts and his spending is somewhat resembling democrats.
Now a few answers
about 200 billion plus going to 400 in the red.

Initial was dot com bust. Market and tax revenue both evaporated. I see some still think one side was responsible for dot.com hype and the other its demise. Also the Enrons ect. I suppose they were just all legal beagle till Bush got in and went corrupt over night. Fact is none got caught till Clinton left. If they were smart they would have fessed up prior to his leaving,made a few "donations" to his library fund a got pardons like everyone else. Now add to that 9-11 chaos to economy plus war in afgan and Iraq--are you getting any ideas yet on the economy swing???

Employment
Saw last night where they are trying to pass bill that lets illegals in U.S. on special visa to fill "as they say" the millions of jobs here that U.S. citizens don't want. So why the fuk are there so many unemployed????

44 states running deficits that were in the green just 18 months

Wasn't aware the feds set states budgets???
Now after reading 1st paragraph bout the revenue(and anticipated revenue) that was in these states prior to dot.com bust is it "maybe" possible that their tax revenue suffered the same as the federal govs.?????
Botton line is trillions were lost in tax revenue and the market portfolios when the bubble burst. Now if anyone can show me how either side was responsible for the bubble or the burst I am all :bigear:

I have not seen figures on those opposed to war but assumimg you are correct, what does the 50% that oppose think we should have done.
Maybe pay em off in bribes like N Korea. Supply em with food and oil so they can use their entire roll to enhance their war machine.

If you have time read this and then tell me where the fault lies

http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-0202/msg00082.html

 

[StevieD]

On that dot com bust that was started by Greenspan who raised interest rates 4 times and trash talked the economy. Since those 4 intrest rate hikes he has done nothing but lower the rates dozens of times. Was it possible he raised those rates and took the rug out from beneath the economy to help get Dubya elected. Afterall the strongest thing Gore had going for him was the economy until Greenspan destroyed it. I find it interesting that he has has seen fit to lower rates ever since he thought he had to raise them to slow the economy down.

 

[djv]

The states deficits are from the lower amounts comeing there way from the feds. I dont know where the answer all are. I just know Mr Bush can nor spend his way out of anything. We will pay sooner or later. Either by higher fees or interest rates that just make 6% look great. It's a mess for sure.