Are You Guys Serious?

[StevieD]

the problem is the course he`s on won`t be correctable once it takes hold....once we`re entrenched in socialism and a sort of soft fasciam,theres no turning back...

we`re on a path to ruining whatever work ethic is left in this country...once people get used to being on the government dole,we`ll end up just like europe...

theres really no time to sit back and watch our healthcare system socialized...the welfare system reinstated....OUR money given to strengthen and support left wing organizations like acorn...

telling us what cars to drive.....lightbulbs to use...what to cook with....scamming us on the global warming boondoggle(costing us billions)....refusing to let us procure our own resources...

just watch these staunch blue states like california sinking beneath the waves... yet they still refuse to utilize huge offshore oil and natural gas resources despite(in california`s case) being 44 BILLION in debt AND CAN`T EVEN AFFORD TO REFUND PEOPLE WHAT THEY OVERPAID IN TAXES.......

what`s their answer?...they`d rather tax their productive citizens into oblivion....and give it to the ever increasing population of n`er do wells(many of whom aren`t even citizens and are sapping reources).....

it`s insane... theres not a moment to lose...

that`s why we aren`t sitting on our hands while rome burns...

You make some good points. But you let Bush drive us to where we are. We are in a mess. And I do not see any way out. To stay the course of the previous administration the foreclosures would be escallating faster and faster fueled by the unemployment.
Don't forget the more of these homes we foreclose on the lower the price of our existing homes. It is important to stop the foreclosures. For many people their retirements are in their hiomes and the value has plummeted.
I don't like it but something has rto be done and fast.
My daughter just got an MRI, she has crappy insurance. They paid $3,000 her portion is $1000. $4000 for an MRI! Are they nuts. The medical and insurance industry better get in line too or a socialized system will be all we can afford.

 

[dawgball]

You make some good points. But you let Bush drive us to where we are. We are in a mess. And I do not see any way out. To stay the course of the previous administration the foreclosures would be escallating faster and faster fueled by the unemployment.
Don't forget the more of these homes we foreclose on the lower the price of our existing homes. It is important to stop the foreclosures. For many people their retirements are in their hiomes and the value has plummeted.
I don't like it but something has rto be done and fast.
My daughter just got an MRI, she has crappy insurance. They paid $3,000 her portion is $1000. $4000 for an MRI! Are they nuts. The medical and insurance industry better get in line too or a socialized system will be all we can afford.

It seems to me that you are fully prepared to live in a socialist state.

So the "value" of my home goes lower? What's the difference in that and it being artificially inflated by a prop?

People have their retirement tied up in their house? Is that a reason to throw our tax money towards them? Should we also take some tax money out to prop up the entire mutual fund market?

We have to be ready to pay the piper. We have been fortunate for several decades, and I don't think the mess we were in was created by Bush alone. This is a build-up of many many years. Bush's actions did nothing but make them worse, but to say they are completely his fault is ludicrous (not saying that Stevie D said this).

We have to go through some really really hard times as individuals and a country. That is the ONLY way we can get out of this mess. Stimulus plans and bailouts are nothing short of your government stealing from you to pad their pockets with money and power.

(let me be clear that this is just an opinionated rant; not an attack at or towards anyone)

 

[StevieD]

It seems to me that you are fully prepared to live in a socialist state.

So the "value" of my home goes lower? What's the difference in that and it being artificially inflated by a prop?

People have their retirement tied up in their house? Is that a reason to throw our tax money towards them? Should we also take some tax money out to prop up the entire mutual fund market?

We have to be ready to pay the piper. We have been fortunate for several decades, and I don't think the mess we were in was created by Bush alone. This is a build-up of many many years. Bush's actions did nothing but make them worse, but to say they are completely his fault is ludicrous (not saying that Stevie D said this).

We have to go through some really really hard times as individuals and a country. That is the ONLY way we can get out of this mess. Stimulus plans and bailouts are nothing short of your government stealing from you to pad their pockets with money and power.

(let me be clear that this is just an opinionated rant; not an attack at or towards anyone)

Dawg, I think if we let the banks fail the whole thing would have taken care of itself. But now we are in a real mess. How can we continue to let these homes foreclose? I would rather see my money go there than to Iraq and Afaghanastan also. We spend billions on weapons. Use them! Keep bombing them into Hell until the people rise up and throw the pricks out themselves. What is with these boots on the ground? Anyway, I regress. I think we have to prop up the housing market. I do not like how he is doing it but it is something in the right direction.
If he can get people working hopefully they will be able to afford their mortgages. If they are building our infrastructure all the better.
Is it socialist....I would not argue that it is not. But I don't see anyway out.
What do you see as the result of massive unemployment and foreclosures? Who is going to pay for the unemployed? Who is going to make up the taxes for services?

 

[The Sponge]

Obama has had months to think about this. I am not saying he is right but I do not feel it is a rush. Something has to be done to stop it and Gawd knows the banks are not helping. The longer we wait the worse it is going to be. Now, that is different than saying that he is doing the right things. But the financial team he has surrounded himself with must think it's the right thing.

Exactly none of us know how truly serious this really is. Its very possible he is rushing this stuff for a reason. None of us know.
On a side note since the creation of the sceenname "the Sponge" Today would be the first time i saw the man from Kentucky write down the word debt. All this time i just thought he didn't know how to spell it.

 

[jimmy the greek]

resign, obama.




may as well beat the crowd in a couple of years lol.

 

[bjfinste]

I REALLY don't like how he ramrodded FOCA through his desk.

Can you give a little more info on how he "ramrodded" this through? And what about it actually results in your tax money being used for abortions?

I ask this sincerely; I do not know much about FOCA. As you would likely assume, I would support just about anything that encourages abortion, but I am just unfamiliar with FOCA.

 

[ryson]

I ask this sincerely; I do not know much about FOCA. As you would likely assume, I would support just about anything that encourages abortion, but I am just unfamiliar with FOCA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Choice_Act

 

[dawgball]

Can you give a little more info on how he "ramrodded" this through? And what about it actually results in your tax money being used for abortions?

I ask this sincerely; I do not know much about FOCA. As you would likely assume, I would support just about anything that encourages abortion, but I am just unfamiliar with FOCA.

If you would like to encourage abortion, that is your choice. Don't ask me to give my tax dollars for it.

Information on FOCA (Freedom Of Choice Act - very poorly named) is very easily found anywhere on the internet.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

No matter if it was another 4 years of Bush, or if it was McCain in office, they'd be ramming the same package down our throats....and I think you know it, Wayne.

As for the stock market reaction, see the title of this thread.

Bail outs are a joke.

Wrong--you think conservatives are for socialism and redistribution of wealth--you'd think they push push Gore's insanities down America's throat.

We spoke enough on the spending and so far and as you said--hasn't been a 100 days yet--you think there may be more in the next 1,365 days?

Now the question is how are you and your children going to pay for it.

Let me give you what you can expect next 4 years barring a U.S. wide revolt.

-higher taxes> on those that pay taxes
--legalized extortion from corps->carbon credits etc
-consumer taxes-cigs-achohal-gas etc

why they will have negative impact.

Individuals (savers) will take their money elsewhere--investing in more friendly havens for real estate-savings-if you think we are at short end of import/export now consider- consequences of corps (below) example: Why would a person pay the taxes just imposed on cigs that will run cartons to around $40 in starting April when they can have 10 cartoons shipped in for less than $100 including freight.

Corps-- bad enough that highest corp taxes in world make it tough for corps to compete now--but add the extorted greeny taxes on horizon--which will have to be forced on consumer along with their own increase in energy price.

Now how will they remotely be able to compete with China and other counties.

While we are digging ourselves into a hole on a bogus global warming hoax--

China has just secured 2.2 billion barrels of oil from Russia over next 20 years at cost of about $20 a barrel--also are buying up mining companies left and right at bargain basement prices. So what do you think their thoughts are on global warming--and who do you think will benefits when their manufacting cost decrease and ours increase.
Ya think corps may take their business to corp friendly countries?

These aren't hypothetical scenerios--they are reality. You better plan for it!

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Wayne: I'm talking about the Stimulus Package, not every political issue under the sun. Also, not only has it not been 100 days yet, it is just now 1 full month!

Simple question Wayne: Would Bush or McCain put together a similar stimulus package for the economy?

That's all I was addressing. I can't wait to hear how the packages would, in FACT, not be similar.

Stimulus package is a joke, but they all would have done it.

EDIT: The packages would be different. McCain and Bush would give it to Multi-National Corporations that are about to fail.

 

[Jabberwocky]

source
http://www.fool.com/investing/international/2009/02/19/86-trillion-was-a-drop-in-the-bucket.aspx?terms=stimulus+accounting&vstest=search_042607_linkdefault

Commercial Paper Funding Facility
Federal Reserve
$1,800 billion

Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program
FDIC
$1,400 billion

Term Asset-Backed Securities

Loan Facility (TALF)
Federal Reserve
$1,000 billion

Term Auction Facility (TAF)
Federal Reserve
$900 billion

Fannie Mae (NYSE: FNM), Freddie Mac (NYSE: FRE), and Ginnie Mae
U.S. Treasury / Federal Reserve
$800 billion

Obama Stimulus Plan
U.S. Treasury
$787 billion

Treasury Asset Relief Program (TARP)
U.S. Treasury
$700 billion

Total USD international currency swap lines
Federal Reserve
$688 billion

Money Market Investor Funding Facility
Federal Reserve
$540 billion

Citigroup (NYSE: C) Guarantee
U.S. Treasury / FDIC
$306 billion

Hope for Homeowners Act of 2008
U.S. Treasury
$304 billion

Term Securities Lending Facility (TSLF)
Federal Reserve
$225 billion

Economic Stimulus Act of 2008
U.S. Treasury
$168 billion

Other loans: Primary Dealer Credit, etc.*
Federal Reserve
$142.9 billion

Paid to JPMorgan Chase (NYSE: JPM)

to settle Lehman debt
Federal Reserve
$138 billion

Bank of America (NYSE: BAC) Guarantee
U.S. Treasury / FDIC
$118 billion

AIG (NYSE: AIG) Bailout
Federal Reserve
$112.5 billion

Bear Stearns brokered sale
Federal Reserve
$25.9 billion

I'm afraid to look ?
Total:
$10,155,300,000,000

yeah, its all OBama's fault. Glad to see you are now concerned with deficit spending Jethro.

 

[bjfinste]

[

Yeah, I picked up on that after seeing Ryson's post. Still curious what you meant by Obama ramrodding it through.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Wayne: I'm talking about the Stimulus Package, not every political issue under the sun. Also, not only has it not been 100 days yet, it is just now 1 full month!

Simple question Wayne: Would Bush or McCain put together a similar stimulus package for the economy?

That's all I was addressing. I can't wait to hear how the packages would, in FACT, not be similar.

Stimulus package is a joke, but they all would have done it.

EDIT: The packages would be different. McCain and Bush would give it to Multi-National Corporations that are about to fail.

sorry Garry--thought I already answered that with--

"Wrong--you think conservatives are for socialism and redistribution of wealth--you'd think they push push Gore's insanities down America's throat."

to elaborate--You would not have push toward socialism/redisribution of wealth/greenie taxes on corporate america. They have always seemed to see the obvious--business's create jobs--not visa versa.

The ploy is simple--When we reach a majority that pay no taxes exploiting those that do--Dems won't even need liberal element to win every election.
The prob they will run into is those that pay the taxes are a little smarter and a lot more ambitious--they either dodge the taxes or you have major revolt.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

source
http://www.fool.com/investing/international/2009/02/19/86-trillion-was-a-drop-in-the-bucket.aspx?terms=stimulus+accounting&vstest=search_042607_linkdefault

Commercial Paper Funding Facility
Federal Reserve
$1,800 billion

Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program
FDIC
$1,400 billion

Term Asset-Backed Securities

Loan Facility (TALF)
Federal Reserve
$1,000 billion

Term Auction Facility (TAF)
Federal Reserve
$900 billion

Fannie Mae (NYSE: FNM), Freddie Mac (NYSE: FRE), and Ginnie Mae
U.S. Treasury / Federal Reserve
$800 billion

Obama Stimulus Plan
U.S. Treasury
$787 billion

Treasury Asset Relief Program (TARP)
U.S. Treasury
$700 billion

Total USD international currency swap lines
Federal Reserve
$688 billion

Money Market Investor Funding Facility
Federal Reserve
$540 billion

Citigroup (NYSE: C) Guarantee
U.S. Treasury / FDIC
$306 billion

Hope for Homeowners Act of 2008
U.S. Treasury
$304 billion

Term Securities Lending Facility (TSLF)
Federal Reserve
$225 billion

Economic Stimulus Act of 2008
U.S. Treasury
$168 billion

Other loans: Primary Dealer Credit, etc.*
Federal Reserve
$142.9 billion

Paid to JPMorgan Chase (NYSE: JPM)

to settle Lehman debt
Federal Reserve
$138 billion

Bank of America (NYSE: BAC) Guarantee
U.S. Treasury / FDIC
$118 billion

AIG (NYSE: AIG) Bailout
Federal Reserve
$112.5 billion

Bear Stearns brokered sale
Federal Reserve
$25.9 billion

I'm afraid to look ?
Total:
$10,155,300,000,000

yeah, its all OBama's fault. Glad to see you are now concerned with deficit spending Jethro.

--and which one of these did he not initiate or vote for?

Now lets look at all this debt you put up that has accumualted during history of U.S. as it contains medicare and ssn also.

YES WE CAN--

but flip side--lots of "hope" in packages for you jabbers

-- we have total debt in history of U.S. and Obama will be rsponsible for 1/5 of it- in all probabilty --in his 1st 100 days

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

sorry Garry--thought I already answered that with--

"Wrong--you think conservatives are for socialism and redistribution of wealth--you'd think they push push Gore's insanities down America's throat."

to elaborate--You would not have push toward socialism/redisribution of wealth/greenie taxes on corporate america. They have always seemed to see the obvious--business's create jobs--not visa versa.

The ploy is simple--When we reach a majority that pay no taxes exploiting those that do--Dems won't even need liberal element to win every election.
The prob they will run into is those that pay the taxes are a little smarter and a lot more ambitious--they either dodge the taxes or you have major revolt.

BULLSHIT Wayne. WTF do you call the bank bailout?????? REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH AND SOCIALISM!!!! Who prevailed over that socialistic policy?

 

[gardenweasel]

interesting read for all future comrades...


"President Obama is putting the finishing touches on an ambitious first budget that seeks to cut the federal deficit in half over the next four years, primarily by raising taxes on business and the wealthy and by slashing spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, administration officials said."

pretty slick...the old class warfare trick to move toward socialism....... what a great idea...

now that he has the proletariat(common folk) all revved up and in the pocket of the government, take anyone left and put the squeeze on them....

and then when bock and friends break the backs of the other profitable businesses and non gov`t. workers,they can nationalize their businesses....

checklist:

1) make lower and middle class beholden to the government. (check)..

2) nationalize (or at least have many fingers) in banks and financial institutions. (check...)

3) kill the upper class by taking away their money, moving them into the dependent class with # 1..... (pending)

4) kill what's left of the profitable businesses and then nationalize (or have many fingers) in them. ..(pending)...

5) welcome to the democratic socialist states of america (pending)...

(www.washingtonpost.com)....

"Life is funny, skies are sunny
Bees make honey, who needs money, Monopoly"
/ten years after

(weasel,with a goatee,wearing his che` tee shirt and beret...just mellowing out...) :weed:

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

BULLSHIT Wayne. WTF do you call the bank bailout?????? REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH AND SOCIALISM!!!! Who prevailed over that socialistic policy?

Sorry Gary thought I had made that clear in numerous post prior--I was for shoring up banks under GW and O. Didn't like the way way the spending was accounted for under GW and yet to see under O.

The banks were not redistribution of wealth--the Auto bailouts (which I were not for) were neither redistibution of wealth.

Redistribution of wealth is pretty easy to define--
You take away or penalize the responsible/productive for the benefit of the irresponsible and unproductive.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Sorry Gary thought I had made that clear in numerous post prior--I was for shoring up banks under GW and O. Didn't like the way way the spending was accounted for under GW and yet to see under O.

The banks were not redistribution of wealth--the Auto bailouts (which I were not for) were neither redistibution of wealth.

Redistribution of wealth is pretty easy to define--
You take away or penalize the responsible/productive for the benefit of the irresponsible and unproductive.

Wayne, all you are doing is categorizing. I think we could easily define a failing bank or automotive company as irresponsible and unproductive. You're too locked in to the Republican dogma to see the forest for the trees, brother. You can't have it both ways. The contradictions wouldn't be so hard to handle if you weren't so steadfast in your belief that one is so socialistic (which is bad).

 

[kosar]

Redistribution of wealth is pretty easy to define--
You take away or penalize the responsible/productive for the benefit of the irresponsible and unproductive.

Right. That's exactly what happened with the bank bailouts, the auto bailouts and all the rest of this ridiculous shit. Like Gary said, you can't have it both ways.

 

[djv]

All I can say is BS. He's been in office a month. I'll check back to see how things have worked in 2 years. We gave Bush 8 years to ruin us. And I might say with the REB's cheering him on.
If your smart and are part of the lucky ones that have extra cash on hand. Start cost averaging into stocks. When looking for some of those to buy. Think alternative fuels as a place to start. Then look at some of are best companies on sale some 60% to 70% off there highs. Just start slow stock market may find a new low. Thats why you cost average. Do Stay Away from banks right now.
I see that long list above is only a potential amount
that could be spent? I guess that's why there is no dates given when these all happen.