Attention: ELVIS

[Blazer]

answers

answers

sixfive-

The fact that you have not met a Catholic who really understood what he believed is sad. This is my major "beef" with the church. It all goes back to the tradition thing. When people couldn't read the priests would read to them out of the Bible and then tell them how it effected thier lives. Today, we call this a homily (see Dawgball's post above).

The Catholic chuch is "old school" they still don't think condoms are a good idea even though many countries they minister too are overpopulated and contain starving children. The old school thinking applies to your question about Catholics studying the Bible.

Today, Catholics are encouraged to study the Bible on thier own and discover for themselves. For example my church now gives "additional readings" to enhance the weekly theme to read at home. They are printed in our bulletin.

The whole celebrate thing happened in 130?....Priests did marry in the early church. The problem arose when they died and thier personal property and the churches property all went to the priests family. This is one reason Luther had for splitting. So, they just cut it out. As a Catholic I pray for the day married priests are welcome back.

 

[Blazer]

sprinkle

sprinkle

I know the "sprinkling of infants" is for Baptisum. I don't know why we do it so early in life. I'll check and get back to you.


Just a note.

Religion is a touchy subject. Thanks to everyone for not loading this tread with needless attacks and childish namecalling. May we all find peace wherever we look for it.

 

[Blazer]

original sin

original sin

Sixfive-

Baptism is used by the Catholic Church to defeat "original sin".

Catholic's believe in 7 holy sacraments or in layman?s terms 7 ways to get closer to G-d.

1. Baptism (as an infant)
2. Reconciliation (to ask for forgiveness for sins)
3. Holy Communion ( to become one with the church family)
4. Confirmation ( to stand as an adult in the church)
5. Holy Orders (Priest or Nun?etc.)
6. Matrimony (union of 2 souls to do the Lord?s work)
7. Anointing of Oil (rite of the sick)

The protestant (any Christian who is not Catholic) belief of Baptism is the same as the Catholic belief of Confirmation (typically done in the 8th grade). The Catholic view on Baptism is the family speaks for the child. In Confirmation the child becomes an adult by speaking for themselves (kinda like a Jewish Bar Mitzvah).

Follow this link with additional info.

Why Catholics Sprinkle Babies

I hope this helps, if you have any other questions please ask.

 

[dawgball]

Blazer--I made a mental note last night about how well this thread has gone.

I see we differ on the married priest concept. I, for one, would rather see the Church ordain women as priests before letting priests marry. I believe that when someone is ordained as a priest that is the same vow to God that I am taking to my wife in a couple of months. I feel that a priest is given too many responsibilities for a human to both be a great priest as well as a great father and husband. Just my opinion.

What's odd is that there are Catholic priests today that are married. The other religion (I am really not well versed in other religions) that has priests--if a priest from that Church decides that Catholicism is the right path for him now, then the Catholic Church will accept his services even though he is married and has kids. I always thought that was interesting.

My uncle is a Deacon in the Catholic Church. Basically, he is a priest light. He can not perform certain Sacraments (Reconciliation, Annointing of the Sick, and Holy Orders), but he does everything else (there may be one more that he can't perform). But he is married and has children. This is basically the highest level of service that you can become if you are currently married.

Back with more...

 

[Blazer]

Church

Church

Dawg- Deacons are cool. Did you know your uncle has committed not to marry again?

If and when his wife dies, he has committed to study to become a full priest.

The other sacrament is Holy Communion. He cannot consecrate the host.


As far as the Married priest thing goes. This is a major confusion of the Catholic Church. We are both Catholic and we think (believe) two different ways because this is not Dogma (see above post). I think married priests (Methodist), brothers, pastors, etc....in protestant religions do a good job. I believe a married Catholic Priest can achieve the same level of success.

Catholic Priests have more duties than their Protestant contemporaries. The number of priests that would emerge from the congration would dilute this level of obligation. To say it another way there would be many more priests and therefore less work per priest and they would be able to have a wife/kids/maybe a job.

I?m sure we can agree that there is a priest shortage and something needs to be done.

 

[dawgball]

I agree that there is a priest shortage. I don't think there is any debating that. I think the best solution is to let women become priests, though. Being old school like we are, there are several people that want to hinge their opinion on some of the other religions that have tried this in the past. I don't see any reason that a woman could not perform the functions of a priest as well as a man.

Once again, just my opinion.

 

[SixFive]

thanks for the link, Blazer, but it did absolutely nothing to help me understand this practice. There is no record in the Bible of infants being sprinkled, but there are many recordings of adults having faith, repenting, being baptized, recieving salvation, and living a Christian life.

My father-in-law was a Lutheran, and they too sprinkle babies. He tried to explain it once to me and that discussion included original sin, but he also referred to the Israelites crossing the Red Sea If I'm not mistaken, Lutheranism and Catholicism are very similar. As far as that goes, Episcopalian, Methodist, Greek Orthodox, and several others are very similar to Catholicism.

The link does mention Acts 2:38, and that in itself is a very "discussed" scripture as it mentions baptism THEN recieving the Holy Spirit. Many folks believe that all u have to do is pray for forgiveness and then u become "SAVED". I think examples in the Bible call for a bit more action, but that is my opinion and interpretation and others interpret this a different way. I think I am called to profess what I believe to others, but I can't force-feed it to them.

Looks like I do agree with Catholicism that baptism is essential in salvation, but I don't agree/understand how infant sprinkling can be considered a part of that. I am in no way condemning what the Catholic Church or your faith does as God will be the judge on Judgement Day. I like to understand others beliefs, and that's one of the main reasons I studied about Islam several years ago and what it was about.

How does an adult convert to Catholicism? Assuming this adult never had any contact with the Christianity and had never been "saved" or baptized, how would he become a member of the Catholic Church?

As far as women's roles in the Church, I can think of a few scriptures in II Timothy and James that clearly tell me there is no call for a woman to be a Priest or Preacher.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Blazer]

My father-in-law was a Lutheran, and they too sprinkle babies. He tried to explain it once to me and that discussion included original sin, but he also referred to the Israelites crossing the Red Sea If I'm not mistaken, Lutheranism and Catholicism are very similar. As far as that goes, Episcopalian, Methodist, Greek Orthodox, and several others are very similar to Catholicism.

The link does mention Acts 2:38, and that in itself is a very "discussed" scripture as it mentions baptism THEN recieving the Holy Spirit. Many folks believe that all u have to do is pray for forgiveness and then u become "SAVED". I think examples in the Bible call for a bit more action, but that is my opinion and interpretation and others interpret this a different way. I think I am called to profess what I believe to others, but I can't force-feed it to them.

Looks like I do agree with Catholicism that baptism is essential in salvation, but I don't agree/understand how infant sprinkling can be considered a part of that. I am in no way condemning what the Catholic Church or your faith does as God will be the judge on Judgement Day. I like to understand others beliefs, and that's one of the main reasons I studied about Islam several years ago and what it was about.

How does an adult convert to Catholicism? Assuming this adult never had any contact with the Christianity and had never been "saved" or baptized, how would he become a member of the Catholic Church?

As far as women's roles in the Church, I can think of a few scriptures in II Timothy and James that clearly tell me there is no call for a woman to be a Priest or Preacher.

Thanks for the discussion.

Since Luther was the first to split form the Catholic Church it's easy to see why Lutherans are the closest to the Catholics. Episcopalians are ?Diet Catholic?- half the ceremony, half the guilt J. Episcopalian Priests are the ones allowed to ?cross over? with wives and children because the two are so similar. ?note- The Catholic Church accepts all forms of other Christian Baptisms.

Methodists are a level further away than Episcopalians; I think they are derived from John Calvin (second big splitter). The Greek Orthodox arose during a troubling time in the church when there were two capitals and two popes. Long story short, they split into Greek and Roman Orthodox. Roman Catholic is mainstream while Greek (and Russian) is very close with small ceremonial differences (Communion in a Greek Orthodox starts around age 2 while Roman Catholics start around age 8). The two have small differences but same Dogma.

Catholics do not believe one can ?get? to heaven. Only by the grace of G-d are we accepted into heaven. Since we are merely men, we are not worthy to attain such greatness. This is where the ?guilt? jokes come from.

Often in response to the question ?are you saved?? I reply, ?yes! But not yet.? Meaning I believe I will be saved but the actual act of being saved would mean that I am in heaven and since I?m still breathing I can?t be ?saved? yet.

Maybe the ?sprinkling? comes from the Jewish tradition of Circumcision and presenting the child to the congregation. Catholics used to do circumcisions during Baptism, fortunately now they do it at the hospital (if they do it at all ?it?s not a biggie?). Other than that I don?t know. With so many other things to do maybe it was a convenience thing?

As far as becoming a Catholic, it?s harder than other churches. Because there is so much to know (2000+ years of stuff) you have to take classes and understand before you are Catholic. My wife went through the classes. They last about 9 months, or around that long and end on Easter. During this time they discuss the whys and how?s of the faith, make you drink the blood of a lamb, JUST KIDDING. No, we don?t sacrifice anything.


The classes are interesting and they go on at any local Catholic Church. They don?t just lay their hands on you any chant and BAM you are Catholic. You must understand why, I think this is a good thing. The classes are often educational to all Catholics and help answer the questions you are asking.


May we all find peace, wherever we look for it.

 

[hellah10]

Great info from both sides :yup

and man - so many different point of views...