Aug off to great start, 19 US killed in Iraq so far

[smurphy]

You have got to be kidding! The most dangerous city in the US as far as murders per capita has been St. Louis the last couple years. Let's see, in one of their worst years in 2005 they had 131 murders there. Now let's look at Iraq in 2007 so far:

Jan-07 83
Feb-07 81
Mar-07 81
Apr-07 104
May-07 126
Jun-07 101
Jul-07 79
Aug-07 25

I'm not even going to add them up. It is obviously way over 131, and doesn't include any civilian casualties. Furthermore, your article points out that nearly half the victims are black, so that cuts the current odds down to 50-50 to be murdered in the inner city, so your chance of being murdered in St. Louis is 0.01895%. And you would rather be dropped in Baghdad, where people aren't exactly pro-American right now?

Yeah, Dogs likes to claim how much more dangerous it is in our cities than Iraq. Last year I crunched some actual numbers and found that an American was 45 times more likely to be killed in Iraq than in our most dangerous city. If you only considered Baghdad, I believe the number was over 100. ....To say nothing of the insane rate of losing limbs and serious injuries. It's not like we have very many IED's going off at freeway offramps into East St. Louis.

Not sure why DTB constantly brings up points that had been previously broken down and proven wrong. There are about 5 topics in his arsenal that he regulary does this with. At least 3 of them involve something about black people.

 

[Spytheweb]

Here's some body counts to chew on

Here's some body counts to chew on

Under Bush in government, 6,836+ Americans have died. 30,000+ wounded. The number of Iraqis will never be known, the number runs from 70,000 to 800,000, men, women and children. Wounded who knows, maybe 300,000? Everyday more are added to these numbers, and for what? You have to think about what is it that America values more than life? The US dollar, and how does the dollar tie into Iraq? Their oil! Bush said a few months ago, they can not be allowed to control the oil. How could America allow such a coward to start a war, and 5 years later still at war and no end in sight, well there's a end in sight, Bush has 18 months to go. One thing is for sure, once Bush is booted out of the Whitehouse, over sight in congress will continue and with all the laws Bush and his thugs have broken it will take years to bring out. Alot of people are going to go to jail and no Bush executive privilege to save them. Gonzo maybe safe now, but in 2 years they will be still calling his @ss up before congress. The war will be looked at close and contractors jailed. I hope Karl Rove finds a cell too. I'am looking forward to seeing this happen.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Yeah, Dogs likes to claim how much more dangerous it is in our cities than Iraq. Last year I crunched some actual numbers and found that an American was 45 times more likely to be killed in Iraq than in our most dangerous city. If you only considered Baghdad, I believe the number was over 100. ....To say nothing of the insane rate of losing limbs and serious injuries. It's not like we have very many IED's going off at freeway offramps into East St. Louis.

Not sure why DTB constantly brings up points that had been previously broken down and proven wrong. There are about 5 topics in his arsenal that he regulary does this with. At least 3 of them involve something about black people.

Wayne must be too busy to respond.

 

[Spytheweb]

Spinning the Iraq war death toll

Spinning the Iraq war death toll

By Robert Parry
August 10, 2007

Mindful of the political fallout from a rising American death toll in Iraq, the U.S. military has pulled back from widespread use of aggressive tactics on the ground this summer, helping to explain a modest reduction in the number of soldiers killed in July, according to intelligence and military sources.
Share this article

The number of U.S. military fatalities declined to 80 in July after three months of a death toll in the triple digits (104 in April, 126 in May, and 101 in June). The lower death toll has been cited by some U.S. commanders in Iraq and Bush administration supporters in Washington as a sign that President George W. Bush?s ?surge? of U.S. troops is working.

But the sources told me that the lower death toll reflects not some impending victory but just a slowdown in the U.S. ground offensive after the early phases of the surge, which poured more than 20,000 additional troops into Iraq. The sources cited a variety of factors contributing to the decline in U.S. casualties.

One U.S. military source said the American troops have not pushed as far from their forward operating bases as the U.S. news media has been led to believe. When Bush unveiled the surge, a key goal was to get American forces out of their secure bases and into small police outposts in Iraqi neighborhoods.

The exposure of U.S. troops to the additional hazard of such front-line assignments was a factor in the upswing of American deaths in the early months of the surge. This forward positioning also presented risks for U.S. logistical personnel who had to brave roadside bombs and ambushes to supply these isolated units.

Further complicating those assignments was the brutal summer heat ? reaching temperatures of 130 degrees ? at a time when electricity in many Iraqi neighborhoods is spotty at best. By slowing or postponing these deployments, the dangers to the troops ? not to mention their discomfort ? were reduced.

Still, this source said the decline in violent incidents involving U.S. troops could be viewed as a combination of two factors ? a drop-off in activity by the Iraqi insurgency as well as a pull-back by the Americans.

Another source said the precise reason for the reduced U.S. military activity inside Iraq wasn?t entirely clear, but noted that the slowdown in the Iraqi theater was in sharp contrast to more aggressive operations in Afghanistan.

A decline in American activity in Iraq also has been noted by Israeli intelligence, another source said, raising some concern in Tel Aviv that the U.S. military was shying away from offensive operations to avoid higher casualties that would further undermine political support for the war in the United States.

The source said some Israeli officials want the Americans to keep taking the fight to the enemy.

 

[gardenweasel]

Not sure why DTB constantly brings up points that had been previously broken down and proven wrong. There are about 5 topics in his arsenal that he regulary does this with. ""At least 3 of them involve something about black people.""

*howl*......

speaking of lame arsenals,aren`t you tired of dipping into the septic tank to insult the man?.....

dtb never insults you...i`ve never once heard him intimate anything negative about left coast transgender maori tribespersons who eschew trans-fats and drive priuses..

 

[gardenweasel]

By Robert Parry
August 10, 2007

Mindful of the political fallout from a rising American death toll in Iraq, the U.S. military has pulled back from widespread use of aggressive tactics on the ground this summer, helping to explain a modest reduction in the number of soldiers killed in July, according to intelligence and military sources.
Share this article

The number of U.S. military fatalities declined to 80 in July after three months of a death toll in the triple digits (104 in April, 126 in May, and 101 in June). The lower death toll has been cited by some U.S. commanders in Iraq and Bush administration supporters in Washington as a sign that President George W. Bush’s “surge” of U.S. troops is working.

But the sources told me that the lower death toll reflects not some impending victory but just a slowdown in the U.S. ground offensive after the early phases of the surge, which poured more than 20,000 additional troops into Iraq. The sources cited a variety of factors contributing to the decline in U.S. casualties.

One U.S. military source said the American troops have not pushed as far from their forward operating bases as the U.S. news media has been led to believe. When Bush unveiled the surge, a key goal was to get American forces out of their secure bases and into small police outposts in Iraqi neighborhoods.

The exposure of U.S. troops to the additional hazard of such front-line assignments was a factor in the upswing of American deaths in the early months of the surge. This forward positioning also presented risks for U.S. logistical personnel who had to brave roadside bombs and ambushes to supply these isolated units.

Further complicating those assignments was the brutal summer heat – reaching temperatures of 130 degrees – at a time when electricity in many Iraqi neighborhoods is spotty at best. By slowing or postponing these deployments, the dangers to the troops – not to mention their discomfort – were reduced.

Still, this source said the decline in violent incidents involving U.S. troops could be viewed as a combination of two factors – a drop-off in activity by the Iraqi insurgency as well as a pull-back by the Americans.

Another source said the precise reason for the reduced U.S. military activity inside Iraq wasn’t entirely clear, but noted that the slowdown in the Iraqi theater was in sharp contrast to more aggressive operations in Afghanistan.

A decline in American activity in Iraq also has been noted by Israeli intelligence, another source said, raising some concern in Tel Aviv that the U.S. military was shying away from offensive operations to avoid higher casualties that would further undermine political support for the war in the United States.

The source said some Israeli officials want the Americans to keep taking the fight to the enemy.

valedictorian of the "asshole school"....

 

[gardenweasel]

where is that little dissembler,spytheweb?...he always disappears before the proper spanking can be administered.....

 

[The Sponge]

*howl*......

speaking of lame arsenals,aren`t you tired of dipping into the septic tank to insult the man?.....

dtb never insults you...i`ve never once heard him intimate anything negative about left coast transgender maori tribespersons who eschew trans-fats and drive priuses..

Not sure if i ever wanted to hear a response more than this

 

[Spytheweb]

Updated at 6:00 p.m. EDT, Aug. 12, 2007

Although violence remains relatively light, U.S. forces took a heavy hit on Saturday; five American servicemembers were killed and four wounded in separate incidents. At least 57 Iraqis were killed and 37 more wounded during the latest incidents.

Four Task Force Marne soldiers were killed and four more wounded by an explosion during combat operations south of the capital yesterday. In a separate incident, another Task Force Marne soldier was killed during a dismounted patrol southeast of Baghdad.

 

[djv]

The good news is Iraq government is on vacation 4 to 5 weeks. That might help stop some of the killing. And more good news. Fox had a report on the surge. I new answer before the show started what they would say. I just waited and turned it on with 3 minutes to go to here them say how good everything is in Bush's Iraq. But one thing they didn't say is were taking sides in this civil war. Boys and Girls that can come back to bite us in the ass real nasty.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Good morning HH was waiting a while to see how many of the lemmings chimed in on your misdirection play--believe mine was on collective inner cities vs Iraq--and you have made it one city against another--

Is this the Bagdad war--lets compromise--Iraq is almost identical size to California-

"The most recent statistics indicate California has more than 2,300 homicides each year, which means about 6.6 murders each day"

kinda like spy and his 6,836 but failing to tell you how many were non combat (accident related) now if you want to bring accidents into the picture--

---you might get a little incite on deaths by race also as many would lead you to believe a certain poor element is taking all the casualities--heard same shit back in the Viet Nam days.

Heres a few "facts" a prudent person might want to observe.
non-hostile deaths--
http://icasualties.org/oif/HNH.aspx

deaths of U.S troops by race
http://icasualties.org/oif/ETHNICITY.aspx

--Oh and Smurph --after viewing "facts" could you come up with any conclusions

 

[Happy Hippo]

Good morning HH was waiting a while to see how many of the lemmings chimed in on your misdirection play--believe mine was on collective inner cities vs Iraq--and you have made it one city against another--

Is this the Bagdad war--lets compromise--Iraq is almost identical size to California-

Dogs, I don't need to wait for people to weasel their thoughts into this thread for a reply. Us lemmings can formulate good arguments on our own.

OK, when you said in the last post "like I told you countless times I'll take my chances in Iraq over innner cities any day." - it sounded like you were referring to Iraq vs. inner cities. Well, let's just compare Cali first, and then extrapolate even further to the whole US. However, in all fairness we do need to include civilian casualties as well as military casualties, since the civilians didn't ask to be murdered anymore than a person in California. I estimated on the low end for civilian casualties, and included all military casualties and this is what I discovered for the time period of March 2003 - August 2007:

1371.33 murders/month in the US
204.53 murders/month in CA
1396.39 murders (deaths)/per month in Iraq

So there were just a few more murders in Iraq per month...Finally, if we are going to compare size, then certainly we need to compare population demographics as that is more important for determining murder rates:

pop US: 301,139,947
chance of being murdered: 0.02367%

pop CA: 36,457,549
chance of being murdered: 0.02917%

pop Iraq: 27,499,638
chance of being murdered: 0.26557%

 

[gardenweasel]

Dogs, I don't need to wait for people to "weasel" their thoughts into this thread for a reply."



:nono: ......respectfully...please refrain from the derogatory "weasel" innuendo......i suggest that you kick a hacky sack if you need to relieve stress...:00x17 .:142squint

 

[Chadman]

Forgive me for jabbing in some "Show Me State" common sense...but I can better appreciate (however appalling it may be) deaths (of any color) of Americans in, well, America, than I can on foreign soil in an elective (by a very small group) war created for extremely arguable reasons.

 

[Happy Hippo]

i suggest that you kick a hacky sack if you need to relieve stress...:00x17 .:142squint

Sounds like fun...I'll meet you in the schoolyard around 4...bring the goods, spicoli.



Chadman, I don't get it, isn't the "Show-Me-State" Missouri? Aren't you from Minnesohta?

I am not arguing where deaths are more appalling, but Dogs said he would rather be dropped into Iraq than the inner city, and I am just showing him that his philosophy is flawed. He would last a lot longer in Oakland than Baghdad. Just trying to help out!

 

[Chadman]

HH, I grew up in Missouri, ended up (so far) in Minnesohta. My ideals were originally formed in the Show-Me state, and I think that's where I learned mid-western fly-over values and a desire to be shown - and not told - something. Ergo, my intense problems with the current administration...

By the way, I was not inferring that deaths in the U.S. were more appalling, just that I understood deaths of U.S. citizens in the U.S. more than why people are dying in Iraq - U.S. or otherwise.

 

[smurphy]

Good morning HH was waiting a while to see how many of the lemmings chimed in on your misdirection play--believe mine was on collective inner cities vs Iraq--and you have made it one city against another--

Is this the Bagdad war--lets compromise--Iraq is almost identical size to California-

"The most recent statistics indicate California has more than 2,300 homicides each year, which means about 6.6 murders each day"

kinda like spy and his 6,836 but failing to tell you how many were non combat (accident related) now if you want to bring accidents into the picture--

---you might get a little incite on deaths by race also as many would lead you to believe a certain poor element is taking all the casualities--heard same shit back in the Viet Nam days.

Heres a few "facts" a prudent person might want to observe.
non-hostile deaths--
http://icasualties.org/oif/HNH.aspx

deaths of U.S troops by race
http://icasualties.org/oif/ETHNICITY.aspx

--Oh and Smurph --after viewing "facts" could you come up with any conclusions

For Christ's sakes, DTB. California has a population of over 30 million. We have what - about 150,000 troops in Iraq? So your per-capita numbers have to be tweaked by a multiple of about 200 times whatever number you create.

I really don't think you are as bad at math as this. ...I guess you just selectively leave out important aspects.

 

[Happy Hippo]

HH, I grew up in Missouri, ended up (so far) in Minnesohta. My ideals were originally formed in the Show-Me state, and I think that's where I learned mid-western fly-over values and a desire to be shown - and not told - something. Ergo, my intense problems with the current administration...

By the way, I was not inferring that deaths in the U.S. were more appalling, just that I understood deaths of U.S. citizens in the U.S. more than why people are dying in Iraq - U.S. or otherwise.

Oh, sorry I misread your post before. I completely agree...I'm a midwestern raised girl myself, so I understand where you are coming from. :SIB

 

[smurphy]

Heres a few "facts" a prudent person might want to observe.
non-hostile deaths--
http://icasualties.org/oif/HNH.aspx

deaths of U.S troops by race
http://icasualties.org/oif/ETHNICITY.aspx

--Oh and Smurph --after viewing "facts" could you come up with any conclusions

WTF conclusions? These couldn't be any more pointless. So "hostile" deaths outnumber "non-hostile" deaths for our troops in Iraq by a large number. I never would have guessed that. And how could that possibly be proving any sort of point you are working on here? Are you retarded? Serious question, there can't be any other conclusion at this point.

 

[Wilson]

WOW...that puts it in perspective, Dogs. Thanks! It helps me figuring out the Florida congressman that was trying to give oral sex to black guys in a park. So, if we use this Republican logic, there's probably 50,000 older white men accross the country that pay to give blowjobs to black guys every night. So, one little thing like what happened with this Republican politician is nothing. Wow, Dogs. I see how you overlook this stuff now. Thanks!

:shrug: :thinking: