Pay particular attention to "the best shooters" non-conf shooting % vs those "top notch" competitors. I'd like to take credit for this, but it is a cut-paste job although it reinforces all my arguments. I'll stop now and let ESPN continue to sway your opinoin, incorrectly.
The Stoudamire-Redick Debate
(as if there was one)
J.J. Redick is "the best pure shooter in college basketball,? Dick Vitale exclaims. At least that?s what ESPN will lead you to think. A closer and more educated look points unfailingly in the direction of one Salim Stoudamire. The numbers do not lie, and sometimes college basketball analysts do. Due to the fact that ESPN airs every single Duke game and Fox Sports Net airs Arizona games, there tends to be more credit, time, and bias given towards anything Duke or its players does. This helps ESPN promote them (as if they need more promotion) as well as overhype someone who otherwise is a very good shooter.
After hearing Dick Vitale, Digger Phelps, Doug Gottlieb, and their ilk profess their amor over Redick as the patron saint of shooting Lute Olson spoke out, saying "let's take a look at the stats ... let anyone else in the country put their numbers up against Salim Stoudamire."
When asked later by an out-of-area reporter on the Pac-10 teleconference call about his "calling out of Redick?, Olson denied he "called out" anybody, although he stuck to his assertion that Vitale might want to consider Salim Stoudamire's large statistical edge on Redick.
"I'm saying people shouldn't be making statements they can't back up," Olson said. "It's ridiculous when people make statements without knowing the facts. It's not a case of me saying J.J. Redick. That's somebody else saying that. It's just a case of looking at the numbers."
So let?s take a look at those numbers?
The following statistical arguments might make your head explode but these are all undeniable facts. On the year both players have made 89 three pointers. The difference is that Stoudamire has only attempted 159 and Redick has attempted 210. Here are the shooting percentages for the year:
3 point %
Stoudamire: 89-159 (56%)
Redick: 89-210 (42.4%)
Field Goal %
Stoudamire: 157-293 (53.6%)
Redick: 150-356 (42.1%)
Free Throw %
Stoudamire: 80-87 (92%)
Redick: 140-150 (93.3%)
While Redick has an ever so slight lead in free throw percentage, Stoudamire leads by miles in both three point and overall field goal percentage. This is not by accident. Let?s take a look at some other numbers.
Redick: 23.0 ppg, 37.2 mpg, 23 games played
Stoudamire: 18.6 ppg, 30.6 mpg, 26 games played
While at first this might look to favor Redick, let?s look at how many shots per game each puts up. Redick averages 15.5 shots per game (9.1 3?s per game) while Stoudamire averages 13.7 shots per game (6.1 3?s per game). If you average out the number of points per shot each takes Stoudamire is at 1.65 which is a ridiculous number, while Redick averages 1.49 points per shot. If you average out their points per game to a full 40 minute game you will find that Stoudamire actually averages only four tenths of a point less per game at 24.7 to 24.3, which is skewed by the fact that Redick does average more shots per game and three pointers per game than Redick before it is stretched out over a full game.
Now, how does one dispute these numbers, and even more so, the percentages behind the numbers? ESPN has been disputing them most often with the claim that Redick plays in the ACC, which is stiffer and tougher competition than the Pac-10. This is probably true overall as a conference, but let?s look at Duke?s non-conference competition and see how great of a three point shooter Redick is:
Tenn-Martin: 4-12
Davidson: 1-6
UNC-Green: 2-7
Valpo: 3-5
Toledo: 2-6
Ill- Chicago: 5-12
Princeton: 1-3
Temple: 5-8
Overall: 23-59 (39%)
This definitely seems to rebuff the claim that Redick shoots lower percentages due to the stiffer competition and less open shots. The argument that Stoudamire has more open shots than Redick, who always, I repeat always, has a hand in his face is moot. Defenses against Stoudamire have included everything from face guarding him (Cal) to a box and one (Utah) to a 2-3 zone (many) while also having a defender stick exclusively on Stoudamire even as another player drives by him for an open shot so as not to help out and leave Stoudamire open.
Here are what some opponent?s coaches have said regarding Stoudamire. Keep in mind, these are actually people who have seen Stoudamire play in person:
Ernie Kent (Oregon head coach):
"Salim is the best shooter in the country. That kid at Duke is not," Kent said.
He doesn't have Salim's demeanor to just dagger you to death like that," Kent said. "(Stoudamire) can hit them with guys right in his face, and from deep. He's good. That's a great luxury to have."
Jim Saia (USC head coach):
"He's the greatest college basketball shooter percentage-wise I've ever seen," Saia said of Stoudamire. "He's a phenomenal player."
Here are other quotes by college basketball writers:
Frank Burlison (Foxsports.com):?Right now, he's the most difficult matchup in the Pac 10 and has made more "big" shots than anyone in the conference. He would also be a first team All-America shooting guard if we were picking the team this week.?
Aran Smith (NBADraft.net):?He leads the entire nation in 3 point shooting percentage at 56%. It's hard to argue that he isn't the best shooter in college basketball. With his scoring ability, it's obvious there's a place for him on the next level as a shooting specialist, ala former Arizona alum Steve Kerr.?
Despite all these proclamations by coaches and other writers who have seen Stoudamire in action, ESPN still claims that Redick is the best shooter in the country. As recently as last night on College Gamenight, analyst Digger Phelps was presented with a graphic showing that each had hit 89 threes and that Redick needed to make 65 straight threes to tie Stoudamire?s percentage, which was 13% higher. Phelps, without giving Stoudamire any sort of positive remark said, ?I?d rather have Redick because he knows when to hit the big shot.? I?m not sure what he meant this comment since Redick has not hit any game winning shots this year, while Stoudamire has one against UCLA from 27 feet.
Another argument is that Redick has NBA range or unlimited range. While this is true, it is generally not acknowledged by ESPN analysts that Stoudamire?s range is just as unlimited. On the radio last night, Doug Gottlieb says during a Redick-Stoudamire segment that ?Redick just hit three of the longest threes you?ll ever see in your life.? What he fails to mention in the game broadcast just before that Duke game was the Stoudamire hit a three from ?N? on the Arizona logo as well as another right before halftime that was just as far as Redick?s circa thirty feet out. Both stretch a defense out as far as they can go and should not be used against the other as a reason one is the better shooter.
As you can see from all these stats and if you?ve ever watched both of them play, Stoudamire has the clear advantage in stats, yet gets majorly slighted on hype and praise from ESPN analysts. While a main ingredient in this oversight is due to the programming angle, one has to wonder if the analysts are just not blatantly biased against west coast basketball or completely oblivious to the games. Every major ESPN analyst from the lot of Vitale, Phelps, Gottlieb, and Jay Bilas have loudly propped up JJ Redick as the greatest shooter in the country, but what argument is out there that overwhelms all of the ones that were just presented?
The Stoudamire-Redick Debate
(as if there was one)
J.J. Redick is "the best pure shooter in college basketball,? Dick Vitale exclaims. At least that?s what ESPN will lead you to think. A closer and more educated look points unfailingly in the direction of one Salim Stoudamire. The numbers do not lie, and sometimes college basketball analysts do. Due to the fact that ESPN airs every single Duke game and Fox Sports Net airs Arizona games, there tends to be more credit, time, and bias given towards anything Duke or its players does. This helps ESPN promote them (as if they need more promotion) as well as overhype someone who otherwise is a very good shooter.
After hearing Dick Vitale, Digger Phelps, Doug Gottlieb, and their ilk profess their amor over Redick as the patron saint of shooting Lute Olson spoke out, saying "let's take a look at the stats ... let anyone else in the country put their numbers up against Salim Stoudamire."
When asked later by an out-of-area reporter on the Pac-10 teleconference call about his "calling out of Redick?, Olson denied he "called out" anybody, although he stuck to his assertion that Vitale might want to consider Salim Stoudamire's large statistical edge on Redick.
"I'm saying people shouldn't be making statements they can't back up," Olson said. "It's ridiculous when people make statements without knowing the facts. It's not a case of me saying J.J. Redick. That's somebody else saying that. It's just a case of looking at the numbers."
So let?s take a look at those numbers?
The following statistical arguments might make your head explode but these are all undeniable facts. On the year both players have made 89 three pointers. The difference is that Stoudamire has only attempted 159 and Redick has attempted 210. Here are the shooting percentages for the year:
3 point %
Stoudamire: 89-159 (56%)
Redick: 89-210 (42.4%)
Field Goal %
Stoudamire: 157-293 (53.6%)
Redick: 150-356 (42.1%)
Free Throw %
Stoudamire: 80-87 (92%)
Redick: 140-150 (93.3%)
While Redick has an ever so slight lead in free throw percentage, Stoudamire leads by miles in both three point and overall field goal percentage. This is not by accident. Let?s take a look at some other numbers.
Redick: 23.0 ppg, 37.2 mpg, 23 games played
Stoudamire: 18.6 ppg, 30.6 mpg, 26 games played
While at first this might look to favor Redick, let?s look at how many shots per game each puts up. Redick averages 15.5 shots per game (9.1 3?s per game) while Stoudamire averages 13.7 shots per game (6.1 3?s per game). If you average out the number of points per shot each takes Stoudamire is at 1.65 which is a ridiculous number, while Redick averages 1.49 points per shot. If you average out their points per game to a full 40 minute game you will find that Stoudamire actually averages only four tenths of a point less per game at 24.7 to 24.3, which is skewed by the fact that Redick does average more shots per game and three pointers per game than Redick before it is stretched out over a full game.
Now, how does one dispute these numbers, and even more so, the percentages behind the numbers? ESPN has been disputing them most often with the claim that Redick plays in the ACC, which is stiffer and tougher competition than the Pac-10. This is probably true overall as a conference, but let?s look at Duke?s non-conference competition and see how great of a three point shooter Redick is:
Tenn-Martin: 4-12
Davidson: 1-6
UNC-Green: 2-7
Valpo: 3-5
Toledo: 2-6
Ill- Chicago: 5-12
Princeton: 1-3
Temple: 5-8
Overall: 23-59 (39%)
This definitely seems to rebuff the claim that Redick shoots lower percentages due to the stiffer competition and less open shots. The argument that Stoudamire has more open shots than Redick, who always, I repeat always, has a hand in his face is moot. Defenses against Stoudamire have included everything from face guarding him (Cal) to a box and one (Utah) to a 2-3 zone (many) while also having a defender stick exclusively on Stoudamire even as another player drives by him for an open shot so as not to help out and leave Stoudamire open.
Here are what some opponent?s coaches have said regarding Stoudamire. Keep in mind, these are actually people who have seen Stoudamire play in person:
Ernie Kent (Oregon head coach):
"Salim is the best shooter in the country. That kid at Duke is not," Kent said.
He doesn't have Salim's demeanor to just dagger you to death like that," Kent said. "(Stoudamire) can hit them with guys right in his face, and from deep. He's good. That's a great luxury to have."
Jim Saia (USC head coach):
"He's the greatest college basketball shooter percentage-wise I've ever seen," Saia said of Stoudamire. "He's a phenomenal player."
Here are other quotes by college basketball writers:
Frank Burlison (Foxsports.com):?Right now, he's the most difficult matchup in the Pac 10 and has made more "big" shots than anyone in the conference. He would also be a first team All-America shooting guard if we were picking the team this week.?
Aran Smith (NBADraft.net):?He leads the entire nation in 3 point shooting percentage at 56%. It's hard to argue that he isn't the best shooter in college basketball. With his scoring ability, it's obvious there's a place for him on the next level as a shooting specialist, ala former Arizona alum Steve Kerr.?
Despite all these proclamations by coaches and other writers who have seen Stoudamire in action, ESPN still claims that Redick is the best shooter in the country. As recently as last night on College Gamenight, analyst Digger Phelps was presented with a graphic showing that each had hit 89 threes and that Redick needed to make 65 straight threes to tie Stoudamire?s percentage, which was 13% higher. Phelps, without giving Stoudamire any sort of positive remark said, ?I?d rather have Redick because he knows when to hit the big shot.? I?m not sure what he meant this comment since Redick has not hit any game winning shots this year, while Stoudamire has one against UCLA from 27 feet.
Another argument is that Redick has NBA range or unlimited range. While this is true, it is generally not acknowledged by ESPN analysts that Stoudamire?s range is just as unlimited. On the radio last night, Doug Gottlieb says during a Redick-Stoudamire segment that ?Redick just hit three of the longest threes you?ll ever see in your life.? What he fails to mention in the game broadcast just before that Duke game was the Stoudamire hit a three from ?N? on the Arizona logo as well as another right before halftime that was just as far as Redick?s circa thirty feet out. Both stretch a defense out as far as they can go and should not be used against the other as a reason one is the better shooter.
As you can see from all these stats and if you?ve ever watched both of them play, Stoudamire has the clear advantage in stats, yet gets majorly slighted on hype and praise from ESPN analysts. While a main ingredient in this oversight is due to the programming angle, one has to wonder if the analysts are just not blatantly biased against west coast basketball or completely oblivious to the games. Every major ESPN analyst from the lot of Vitale, Phelps, Gottlieb, and Jay Bilas have loudly propped up JJ Redick as the greatest shooter in the country, but what argument is out there that overwhelms all of the ones that were just presented?
