Bhutto assassinated

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,489
168
63
Bowling Green Ky
Will be interesting to see what really happened--if we ever do.

I really liked this ladys attitude but believe she had death wish.

Worst job in world would be head of her security.
You cover her ass with security in the middle of thousands in the wild west--get her thru the hardest part--campaign speech-in open--get it concluded safely and think you got it made as she is leaving in bullit proof car--and what does she do--roll down moon roof and stand up in the open:nooo:
was not a matter of if--but when.
 

flapjack

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 13, 2004
1,244
7
0
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Benazir Bhutto died from a fractured skull caused by hitting her head on part of her car's sunroof as a bomb ripped through a crowd of her supporters, a spokesman for Pakistan's Interior Ministry said Friday.


Asif Ali Zardari, in white cap on left, helps carry the coffin of his wife Benazir Bhutto during Friday's burial.

1 of 6 more photos ? "When she was thrown by the force of the shockwave of the explosion, unfortunately one of the levers of the sunroof hit her," said spokesman Brigadier Javed Iqbal Cheema.

The explanation is the latest from the Interior Ministry. It initially said Bhutto was killed by shots fired by the bomber, and then, via the state-run Associated Press of Pakistan, it said the cause of death was a shrapnel injury.

At a news conference, Cheema showed images of Bhutto in a car, standing up through an open sunroof, looking out at the crowd as she was about to be driven away.

When the gunshots rang out and the explosion occurred, Bhutto "fell down or perhaps ducked" and apparently hit her head on a lever, Cheema said, adding that the lever was stained with blood. Watch how investigators think Bhutto died ?

The blast killed at least 28 more people and at least 100 were wounded.

The Interior Ministry also revealed Friday that it had proof showing that al Qaeda was behind Bhutto's assassination.

Cheema said the government had an intelligence intercept in which an al Qaeda militant "congratulated his people for carrying out this cowardly act."

However, that claim has not appeared on radical Islamist Web sites that regularly post such messages from al Qaeda and other militant groups.

The Interior Ministry told Pakistan's GEO-TV that the suicide bomber belonged to Lashkar-e-Jhangvi -- an al Qaeda-linked Sunni Muslim militant group that the government has blamed for hundreds of killings.

U.S. officials believe that a Taliban leader from Afghanistan, Baitullah Mahsud, may be the person behind the assassination.
.............................................................

yeh yeh yeh

changing stories is a sign of mousaref having
blood on his hands

what a joke

she sent a email naming moussaref as her killer if she passed.


Not completely true. She said that he would be responsible for her death because he was not giving her the security she requested - specifically the jammers, more security vehicles and tinted windows which would not have made much of a difference in this case. I wouldnt put it past that dude to take her out, but the fact the killer blew himself up points to a religous fanatic ie AQ. If she was picked off by a sniper or the killer tried to escape, it would make more sense. I just dont see anyone blowing themselves up to keep moussaref in power. That type of sacrifice is usually reserved for the deliousional that believe they will have virgins waiting for them in heaven if they blow themselves up.
 

TonyTT

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2002
353
1
0
71
Ohio
I just dont see anyone blowing themselves up to keep moussaref in power. That type of sacrifice is usually reserved for the deliousional that believe they will have virgins waiting for them in heaven if they blow themselves up.

........and if the notorious Pakistani ISI doesn't have some control and influence over just such types I'd be shocked.
 

Toledo Prophet

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 5, 2005
2,384
2
0
53
Toledo, Ohio
........and if the notorious Pakistani ISI doesn't have some control and influence over just such types I'd be shocked.

The ISI is no friends of ours, thats for sure......gotta wonder how much of the money we send to Pakistan to allegedly help our cause ends up in their hands!

Yet, most in our country probably have no idea who or what that organization is......their influence is a big reason why the Taliban has been able to regain the footing in that area.....and who wants to bet that they know exactly where our friend OBL is????
 

Axle

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 15, 2004
3,427
4
0
.....................................................................


Axle

that's the most disrespectful thing I have ever read in madjacks.

you piece of shit.

you will burn in hell.

Yeah, I'm gonna lose a lot of sleep over that one...what happened, have a losing day...:142smilie
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Yeah, I'm gonna lose a lot of sleep over that one...what happened, have a losing day...:142smilie
......................................................

not sure how much you post , but that was so uncalled for it makes me sick to my stomach. if you were to say that in pakistan, you would be beheaded and your **** stuck in your mouth, with your bloody balls hanging out dripping blood.

if you apologize for saying that or delete it , I will forget it.

please dont make me follow you around and post pictures making you look stupid for months on end.
I really have better things to do in pt1gourds thread.
\I guess you like horses huh. See you soon
 

flapjack

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 13, 2004
1,244
7
0
........and if the notorious Pakistani ISI doesn't have some control and influence over just such types I'd be shocked.

They certainly have lines of communication or at least understanding with them and help them at times but usually helped them to destabilze Pakistans natural rivals. My point is that the act of blowing one self up is pretty massive. You have to believe you are doing a job for Allah and you will be rewarded. Killing her on behalf of a secular government doesnt make sense. Maybe ISI had a role in helping AQ convince someone it was for Allah, but does not make a ton of sense. This was not helpful to Musharaf in keeping control of the county - the exact opposite. Which would lead me to believe that it just would not make a ton of sense for them to do that or be involved in it. Conversely, mayhem in Pakistan is exactly what AQ wants.
 

TonyTT

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2002
353
1
0
71
Ohio
This was not helpful to Musharaf in keeping control of the county - the exact opposite. Which would lead me to believe that it just would not make a ton of sense for them to do that or be involved in it. Conversely, mayhem in Pakistan is exactly what AQ wants.


With all due respect I doubt that any mayhem would last very long in that virtual police state.
Certainly you've heard the speculation that AQ is actually ran by intell agencies. Of course if such is the case then the Pakistani ISI is certainly in the thick of it. At the very least there's little doubt in my mind that AQ is heavily infiltrated by the Pakistani ISI, that's the one thing that makes the most sense to me. Now with all the nutjobs over there ready to off themselves for allah, that may just be the case here. All I'm saying is that it's just as probable if not more so that the notorious Pakistani ISI was deeply involved. Of course like so much that goes on, I doubt we'll ever really know the true story.
 

escarzamd

...abides.
Forum Member
Dec 26, 2003
1,266
1
0
56
5ft, pin high......
......................................................

not sure how much you post , but that was so uncalled for it makes me sick to my stomach. if you were to say that in pakistan, you would be beheaded and your **** stuck in your mouth, with your bloody balls hanging out dripping blood.

if you apologize for saying that or delete it , I will forget it.

please dont make me follow you around and post pictures making you look stupid for months on end.
I really have better things to do in pt1gourds thread.
\I guess you like horses huh. See you soon



:0corn :0corn :0corn

have at 'em kod......it was tremendously crass, even by mjs standards
 

Axle

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 15, 2004
3,427
4
0
......................................................

not sure how much you post , but that was so uncalled for it makes me sick to my stomach. if you were to say that in pakistan, you would be beheaded and your **** stuck in your mouth, with your bloody balls hanging out dripping blood.

if you apologize for saying that or delete it , I will forget it.

please dont make me follow you around and post pictures making you look stupid for months on end.
I really have better things to do in pt1gourds thread.
\I guess you like horses huh. See you soon


I am not sure who you think your are? The politically correct/morality police or what?this is a public forum and people can post whatever the hell they want, it does not have to meet your standards?.I tried to add some humor to a screwed up incident over in a screwed up part of the world?..maybe it is/was sick humor.?if it?s not to your liking, well too bad you had to blow a fuse?.

So now you are going to follow me aournd?.besides being uptight you are telling you are also a cyber stalker?..you need to chill out dude?
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
I am not sure who you think your are? The politically correct/morality police or what?this is a public forum and people can post whatever the hell they want, it does not have to meet your standards?.I tried to add some humor to a screwed up incident over in a screwed up part of the world?..maybe it is/was sick humor.?if it?s not to your liking, well too bad you had to blow a fuse?.

So now you are going to follow me aournd?.besides being uptight you are telling you are also a cyber stalker?..you need to chill out dude?
.............................................................


The last time I got this pissed off was when Gardenweasal said something really bad about Laura Bush.

I guess your too small of a man to apologize or delete it, even though you admit it was sick.

I will have a thread in Gen Forum to honor your
stupidness.

It will probably go on longer than pt1gards .

good luck and happy racing.
 

LetsMakeMoney

~Gambla~
Forum Member
Mar 6, 2005
19,452
92
0
47
Sin City
......................................................

not sure how much you post , but that was so uncalled for it makes me sick to my stomach. if you were to say that in pakistan, you would be beheaded and your **** stuck in your mouth, with your bloody balls hanging out dripping blood.

if you apologize for saying that or delete it , I will forget it.

please dont make me follow you around and post pictures making you look stupid for months on end.
I really have better things to do in pt1gourds thread.
\I guess you like horses huh. See you soon


i'll be right there with u :mj07: :thumb: :0corn :0corn
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
Damned if you do damned if you don't:
Everyone was bitching, her camp the loudest- when gov had her confined to her house for her protection--now they are bitching because they didn't protect her.

Ummmmm.....she was under house arrest. She was not confined for her own 'protection', but I think you know this.
 

AR182

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2000
18,654
87
0
Scottsdale,AZ
Qaeda Network Expands Base in Pakistan

Qaeda Network Expands Base in Pakistan

who's watching the nukes ?

By CARLOTTA GALL

Published: December 30, 2007..NY TIMES

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan ? The Qaeda network accused by Pakistan?s government of killing the opposition leader Benazir Bhutto is increasingly made up not of foreign fighters but of homegrown Pakistani militants bent on destabilizing the country, analysts and security officials here say.

In previous years Pakistani militants directed their energies against American and NATO forces in Afghanistan and avoided clashes with the Pakistani Army. But this year they have very clearly expanded their ranks and turned to a direct confrontation with the Pakistani security forces while aiming at political figures like Ms. Bhutto, the former prime minister who died when a suicide bomb exploded as she left a political rally Thursday.

The expansion of Pakistan?s own militants and their increasing links with Al Qaeda is a shift deeply troubling to the United States, which has been trying to help stabilize this volatile nuclear-armed country on the front line of the Bush administration?s fight against global terrorism.

It is also one that Pakistan?s own government has been loath to admit, but which Ms. Bhutto had begun to acknowledge publicly in her many warnings that the greatest threat to her country lay in religious extremism and terrorism.

Since Ms. Bhutto?s death rioting has left at least 38 people dead and cost millions of dollars of damage to businesses, vehicles and government buildings. The local terrorist network that has raised new concern for Pakistan includes men like Baitullah Mehsud, the tribal militant named by the government as the mastermind behind the attack, and who now claims to have hundreds of suicide bombers ready to attack government and military targets.

On Saturday, through a spokesman, Mr. Mehsud denied he was responsible and dismissed the allegations as government propaganda. ?Baitullah Mehsud is not involved in the killing of Benazir Bhutto,? the spokesman, Maulana Mohammed Umer, said in a phone call to The Associated Press from the tribal region of South Waziristan. ?The fact is that we are only against America, and we don?t consider political leaders of Pakistan our enemy.?

One of Pakistan?s leading newspapers, The Daily Times, noted Saturday that such claims and denials are a common tactic used to obscure the origins of the militants? attacks, and in particular to extend the myth that the bombings are the work of foreign elements, rather than by Pakistanis.

But Al Qaeda in Pakistan now comprises not just tribesmen from the border regions but also Punjabis and Urdu speakers and members of banned Pakistani sectarian groups and Sunni extremists groups, Najam Sethi, editor of The Daily Times, wrote in a front-page analysis. ?Al Qaeda is now as much a Pakistani phenomenon as it is an Arab or foreign element,? he wrote.

Since 2001, when Qaeda and Taliban forces fled the American intervention in Afghanistan and took refuge in Pakistan?s tribal area, the Pakistani militants have steadily grown in strength and boldness.

The tribal groups on the border have a long history of conflict with Pakistan?s central government, but today they have been bolstered and influenced by the foreigners among them. These include a small number of hard-core Arabs, including Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri, Al Qaeda?s second in command, as well as a larger number of Uzbeks, Tartars and Tajiks, Pakistani security officials familiar with the region said.

The foreigners have brought an influx of money and fighting and explosives expertise, as well as ideology that includes religious proponents of such tactics as suicide bombing and beheading, which Afghans and Pakistanis have never used before, the security officials said. More and more these local tribes and foreign networks have overlapping operations and agendas.

?We have irrefutable evidence that Al Qaeda, its networks, and cohorts are trying to destabilize Pakistan which is in the forefront of the war against terrorism,? said Brig. Javed Iqbal Cheema, the director of the National Crisis Management Cell, and main spokesman for the Interior Ministry.

?The country is facing the gravest challenge from these terrorists and extremist elements,? he said. ?They are systematically targeting our state institutions in order to destabilize the country.?

He said Mr. Mehsud was of the ?same brand of Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists,? and was ?behind most of the recent terrorist attacks that have taken place in Pakistan.?

Mr. Mehsud in fact is just one commander in that terrorist network, running one of an estimated five groups training and dispatching suicide bombers from Pakistan?s tribal areas, according to officials.

Another man known to be sending out suicide bombers is Qari Zafar, a militant from southern Punjab who was connected to the banned Sunni extremist group Sipa-e-Sahaba, and then Jaish-e-Muhammad, a group originally formed to wage an insurgency in Kashmir but now is fighting the government.

Mr. Zafar escaped capture in Karachi and is now based in South Waziristan, where he runs training courses teaching insurgents how to rig roadside explosions and vests for suicide bombings, one former security official said.

But it is Mr. Mehsud who has emerged this year as the most visible proponent of Al Qaeda?s ambitions, security officials said. Barely two years ago Mr. Mehsud was just an ordinary Pashtun tribesman who did not register on the radar screen of the intelligence services or government officials.

Mr. Mehsud, who is believed to be 32 years old, is a veteran of Afghanistan where he trained and fought with the Taliban against the main anti-Taliban force, the Northern Alliance, in the 1990s, according to one Pakistani intelligence official.

He became a follower of Abdullah Mehsud, the one-legged commander who was captured when fighting with the Taliban in 2001 in Afghanistan and detained by the United States at Guant?namo Bay, Cuba. Abdullah Mehsud was later released and took up the fight against American forces in Afghanistan from his home base in South Waziristan.

Both men are from the Mehsud tribe of South Waziristan, a large warrior Pashtun tribe that is renowned for never being quelled by the British forces during years of fighting in the frontier in the last century.

Abdullah Mehsud was killed in July when Pakistan forces surrounded him in a house in Zhob, a district south of the tribal areas in the province of Baluchistan. Since then, Baitullah Mehsud has risen in importance.

He is believed to be responsible for some of the most spectacular and damaging attacks inside Pakistan in recent months, including larger and larger suicide attacks against sensitive army and intelligence targets as well as high-level politicians and leaders such as Ms. Bhutto. He has also been identified by officials in Afghanistan as one of the main sources of suicide bombers crossing the border to make attacks there.

After the bloody siege between armed militants and government forces at the Red Mosque in the capital, Islamabad, in July, the militant groups led by Mr. Mehsud have staged increasingly serious attacks in retaliation.

A suicide bomber set off his explosives in the mess hall of the Special Services Group, killing at least 15 of the American-trained commandos in September. Two other bombers attacked buses of personnel from the Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan?s foremost intelligence agency.

Other suicide bombers attacked the army general headquarters and a bus full of children of air force personnel. There were two attacks on the former Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao, who has repeatedly advocated a tough line against the militants, and then two attacks on Ms. Bhutto. Both politicians had shown a readiness to work with Afghanistan?s president, Hamid Karzai, in fighting militancy, a stance that clearly riled militants who support the Taliban.

But Mr. Mehsud?s master strike came at the end of July when he captured nearly 300 soldiers who were escorting a supply convoy through the Mehsud tribal lands in Waziristan. He quickly beheaded three soldiers and demanded that the government withdraw from his area, cease operations against militants and release some of his tribesmen who had been captured, including some convicted bombers.

It took the government two months of negotiations through tribal elders to win the release of the soldiers, and only on Nov. 3 did it secure the release of its men. As part of the deal the government handed over 25 of Mr. Mehsud?s men, among them some convicted terrorists, on the same day that President Musharraf imposed emergency rule on the premise that he needed the extra powers to move against terrorists.

Since then the government appears to have done little to move against Mr. Mehsud. He now heads Tehrik-i-Taliban, a newly formed coalition of Islamic militants committed to waging holy war against the Pakistani government, which it sees as an ally of the United States in its war on terror. The government has outlawed the group but not moved against it. The army has concentrated in recent weeks on clearing militants from the Swat valley, a region some distance from the tribal areas on the border.

One reason the government appears wary of going after him is the fear of the retaliatory attacks he can employ. The army has concentrated on clearing militants from Swat, a famous tourist spot where militants have taken control in recent months.

Pakistani officials who have worked in the tribal areas say that it is still possible to contain the threat of someone like Mr. Mehsud through tribal pressure, if he can be separated from the foreign fighters. One official familiar with the region described how a militant religious leader, Maulavi Noor Muhammad, was dealt with in the 1970s.

He was caught and imprisoned for 10 years, and the entire bazaar of Wana, the district capital of South Waziristan, was razed as collective punishment to the tribe, a measure instituted by the British in colonial times. The local scouts, a military force raised from the tribes, scoured the mountains to fight his supporters, and the movement was defeated.

?The only problem is these foreigners,? the official said. ?You remove these foreigners and the rest is no problem.?

Yet to remove the foreigners, namely a small number of Arab leaders, who are well protected and well hidden, from among the tribesmen is a task that Pakistan so far has failed to do and according to some may not be capable of. ?That can only be done with an operation,? the official admitted.
 

AR182

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2000
18,654
87
0
Scottsdale,AZ
What About the Nukes?

What About the Nukes?

Despite its claims, Pakistan's nuclear weapons are vulnerable.

Newsweek Web Exclusive
Updated: 1:35 PM ET Dec 28, 2007
COMMENTARY

The assassination of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto reminds us starkly of an unanswered question most of us would prefer to forget: how secure are Pakistan's nuclear weapons? Could Al Qaeda or another terrorist group acquire a warhead or enough radioactive material to create a dirty bomb?

Over the years I have had the opportunity to discuss the loose nukes issue with Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf on three separate occasions. On each he insisted that there is no possibility that corrupt custodians or terrorists could steal the country's nuclear weapons and materials. But in the third of these conversations, which occurred in December 2003, just a week after terrorists came within a second and a half of blowing him up, I managed to penetrate his standard defense. How plausible is it, I asked, that Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is more secure than the president of the country himself? His answer: well, there you may have a point.

A witch's brew that includes political instability, a burgeoning Islamic insurgency, a demoralized army and an intensely anti-American population, puts Pakistan's nuclear weapons at risk. Washington and Islamabad have offered soothing reassurances, suggesting that some technical and procedural safeguard like a "kill switch" separates the security of Pakistan's nuclear weapons from the stability of the state. As recently as November, Musharraf told reporters that Pakistan's custodial arrangements for nuclear weapons and material are "the best in the world" and that so long as he is in power "Pakistan's nuclear weapons will be safe."

Even a quick analysis of the security situation faced by Pakistan's nuclear custodians presents clear outlines of their nightmare?and ours. First, just four years ago the chief scientist and father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, A. Q. Khan, was arrested for black-marketeering nuclear weapons technology and even bomb designs to North Korea, Libya, and Iran. Khan created what the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) called the "Wal-Mart of private-sector proliferation." What made it possible for Khan to do so was an extended period of instability in the country. Could uncertainty and instability in Pakistan today provide similarly propitious opportunities for mini-Khans to proliferate?

Second, the design of Pakistan's nuclear control system creates risks of insider theft. This system addresses first and foremost Pakistan's fear that if India, its archenemy, knew the location of the country's weapons it could launch a pre-emptive attack that eliminated them. The notion that there are sophisticated electronic locks on all Pakistani weapons and that only Musharraf has the codes just isn't credible. Were that the case, an attack that killed Musharraf could eliminate Pakistan's ability to retaliate. Instead, Pakistan has dispersed its weapons and distributed oversight to multiple strategic and security authorities. But these arrangements by necessity increase the likelihood that corrupt officials could successfully divert weapons or materials.

Third, potential disaffection in the army increases the odds that mini-Khans might emerge. According to Musharraf, after 9/11 the United States gave Pakistan a choice between signing up as an American ally in the war on terror or "being bombed back into the stone age." He chose alliance. Since joining the U.S. war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda, Pakistan has received about a billion dollars a year of mostly military assistance. With mounting setbacks, including the reconstitution of Al Qaeda headquarters and training camps in the country's borders with Afghanistan, frustration over fighting "America's war" is mounting among Pakistan's national security establishment. And as the United States and others press the cause of democracy in ways that diminish the traditional role of the army, Pakistani officers' ambivalence about the United States may increase. An International Republican Institute poll earlier this month found that one out of two Pakistanis believe the army should have no role in civilian government. Bhutto's assassination may further erode the prestige and credibility of the army and security services.

Finally, the larger society has a decidedly negative view of the United States. In a 2007 Pew poll, two out of three Pakistanis named the United States as the greatest threat to their country.

From this cauldron of combustibles there is no ready exit. It would be a grave mistake, however, to take comfort from the serene assurances of officials in governments, here and there, about everything being under reasonable control.

Graham Allison is the director of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs and the Douglas Dillon Professor of Government at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government. He served as assistant secretary of defense in the first Clinton administration and is the author of "Nuclear Terrorism: The Ultimate Preventable Catastrophe."
 

smurphy

cartographer
Forum Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
AR, don't you find it ironic when you post really long boring articles meanwhile your sig says "life's too short...enjoy it"?
 
Last edited:

AR182

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2000
18,654
87
0
Scottsdale,AZ
AR, don't you find it ironic when you post really long boring articles meanwhile your sig says "life's too short...enjoy it"?

:mj07: :mj07: it is ironic isn't it ?

btw..i'm picturing you saying this in a andy rooney voice because this seems like a question he would ask.....:142smilie :142smilie
 

smurphy

cartographer
Forum Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
AndyRooney.jpg


"....and what's the deal with this AR 182 fellow? He owns a cell phone, but doesn't know how to use it."
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top