Church...

[MrChristo]

I've known several agnostics (friends and family) who found religion during their darkest hours.....There are those who find themselves in terminal situations when denial becomes no longer an option, no longer convenient.....and thats good....so much better in my opinion.
There are universal messages in the Bible, the Koran, etc. and they are all good.
I believe that the authors of those good books have it all over Jesse Ventura when it comes to religious perspective...

Brother bear

Or they just begin HOPING that when they die things keep happening...bit like hedging your bets really...start praying just in case...

And yeah, of course they have it over ex-pro wrestlers when it comes to RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVE...but do they have it over people who like to think for themselves in a broader sense??
I guess that's the question at the crux of it all.

2: "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

Obviously Commandments (much as every other passage in a Holy text) can be interpretted in a few diferent ways...but last time I looked a church was full of statues, paintings of all of the major players

But...even tho I don't believe...pirate fan, that's pretty cool!
Ya gotta admire someone who believes in anything that much!

 

[SixFive]

...when the pot boils over...and the steam comes out....non-denominational...doesn't mean much...there are only a handful. Division among the ranks is as productive as mustard on a PB&J sandwich.... :shrug:

lots of non-denominational churches, and their numbers are rising substantially.

I see all these guys talk about organized religion and how bad it is. When I think organized religion, I think hierarchy, pope, bishops, etc, etc. If all people know is that, I'm just trying to say that's not how all Christianity is.

 

[taoist]

Clint,

...all religion is *organized*


...and unfortunately, Christanity is one of the most frivolously and unnecessarily divided organized religions amongst the handful. :shrug:

 

[Agent 0659]

They sure build a BUNCH of churches, I know that!

Wonder why there are SO many?

Must be some money involved in running those things EH? And tax breaks and donations and etc...

 

[THUNDER]

well said 3 seconds

 

[dawgball]

2: "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

Obviously Commandments (much as every other passage in a Holy text) can be interpretted in a few diferent ways...but last time I looked a church was full of statues, paintings of all of the major players

This is not an accurate statement (at least in the Catholic Church). There are statues, but not of God. There are statues of real people who existed. Catholics do not worship saints, but we do use them as guidance, per se.

The only statue in the Catholic Church could be viewed as a violation of this is any statue of Jesus, but since Catholics view the Trinity as one then it is a statue of what God looked like on earth.

Don't want this post to be read as hostile. Cool as a cucumber. just wanted to point out that MrChristo's post was misleading. No ill intention.

 

[pirate fan]

Just to add to what dawgball said. All the statues and icons on the church are not worshipped in themselves but are only meant to remind us of how God has worked in so many others lives. The saints are just ordinary people who God has done wonderful things through their lives here on earth. They themselves are not prayed too but we as believers ask them to intercede on our behalfs in our lives. Any power anyone has comes only from God.

 

[Box and one]

Intresting comments in this post.
Being a former alter boy who stills knows his latin prayers...i have to believe...but a lot of what the cathloic religion stands for today really upsets me.
As kids we were brainwashed growing up in the late 50's and 60's.I can recite the "confeiter"a long pray that every alter boy had to memorize.A priest would stand over you as you recited it.Mess up and you had the fear of...getting wacked in the back of the head.

I live on a relgious block. Five house to my right is a methodist church.Three houses to my left is an episcapalian church and two houses down from that my cathloic church.So i walk to church.I question a lot about god and my faith.But I have this feeling.....
Hopefully not soon from now...I have this dream that when the day comes....I'll be standing outside this fence in front of a gate..with clouds hovering around ..about waist high.St Peter will be there with a clipboard...there will be a few angels..all tall blonde males[CCD classes for 15 yrs] ones.
St Pete will ask my name..I'll say box and one.He'll look down into his clipboard and say "I'm letting you in...."but I want you to know this.You were a basketball coach and won many games at the buzzer.If you think for one minut that was your coaching your wrong. That was me and St.Anthony guiding those shots in.Question this and you can walk down 2 clouds,make a left,and there is a sewer hatch...going down.."

I heard A McGuire many moons ago and Hubie Brown always preach about how to end practices.Al asked at a clinic with 400 coaches there..how many end shooting Ft's or suicides[sprints]. the whole room raised there hand.He went on to say end your practices the way you end your games.FT's are fine. But run a 5 second play..down by 1... or full court play..half court,etc.For 23 years i ended every practice with a last second play...many of my fellow coaches or rivals sometimes would put the word" luck" on that last second play.I would always hear i'm one of the luckiest coaches ever.But my players knew it wasn't luck....I do think Peter and Anthony had a lot to do with it....

 

[dawgball]

I agree, box. I am a firm Catholic, but I am against a few of the major stances that they take. i think at some point (even in the Catholic church) it comes down to YOUR religious beliefs. When I changed my thought process in this way, my faith life grew quite a bit. Before I was trying to fit my round body in the square hole, and it just wasn't working for me.

 

[SixFive]

we don't have any statues in our church, and all Christians are saints, not just all of these that are recognized in the catholic church.

 

[pirate fan]

SixFive, you know more about saints than alot of Catholics! Your right on!

 

[acehistr8]

I'm a recovering catholic...

the pedophile priests have really damaged my faith, especially being a correction officer and dealing with these scumbags everyday...

Same here. Was still living in New England during the height of the Catholic Church shamockery. Listened to the shame they tried to extoll on the congregation on Sundays knowing what they were getting away with the other 6.5 days of the week. Sickened me to hear the priests that were convicted, nothing happened to many of them at first, they would simply be moved to another diocese. I hope there is a place in hell for someone like Cardinal Law of Boston who presided over most of this and approved the priests being moved from parish to parish.

The end for me was a meeting of Catholic bishops in Dallas where they debated how many incidents of pedophelia or molestation warranted being expelled. They actually had to discuss this. Sickened me to no end. I was actually glad to learn in 2002 that one of the priests committed suicide. He had been moved all around New England with Cardinal Law reiterating that he was a good man. I guess playing with little kids in his church retreat was part of that.

I actually will go now and then to a local neighborhood church that does nondenominational services. It still can be a very relaxing place for me to be.

On a lighter note, anyone catch the Trapped In The Closet South Park last night - the Scientology one? :mj07:

Boston Globe did an in-depth report on this

http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/scandal/

 

[bear]

My Catholic church has nothing to do with pedophile priests.....those are and were obviously sick people and were certainly NOT representing the teachings of the church...I find that it is hard to believe that abuse was so widespread but I guess it was...I mean I went to parochial schools and Catholic Universities for 16 years and NEVER heard of or witnessed anything close to a pedophile...That kinda stuff would have been rebuffed by most, I imagine, and the news would have spread like wildfire. BUT...That IS NOT what the Catholic Church represents. I do not identify with that just like I do not identify with pedophile teachers......There are sick and strange people in ALL professions!
That stuff was a horrible mess....and the church must take responsibility for the actions of their priests as does a school district for its teachers..but don't condemn the school district or the church for the actions of their idiots who abused and those who covered up........jmho

bear

 

[dawgball]

I would have to group myself in that section, pirate fan.

pirate fan/6-5 -- please explain saints. I always thought a saint was someone who has been through Canonization.

Thanks in advance

 

[SixFive]

Jason, I'll paste some stuff from the web, but basically, all saints are Christians. Paul refers to the saints in the New Testament a lot, and this is the early, early Church. I doubt canonization had ever even been thought of back then.

"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" I Corinthians 1:2

Paul referring to Christians as saints...Romans 1:7; I Corinthians 1:2; II Corinthians 1:1

Many blessings and actions are ascribed specifically to saints of God with no inclusion for any other people (Romans 8:27, 15:25-26; I Corinthians 16:1; Ephesians 1:15, 18; 6:18; Colossians 1:12,26; Jude 1:3; Revelation 8:3-4).

one is called to be a saint when he or she is sanctified by Christ's blood when he, or she contacts the blood at baptism (Romans 6:1-7; Ephesians 5:26; Galatians 3:26-27). Therefore, when anyone becomes saved, then he or she also becomes a saint, reflecting his or her sanctification by God.

 

[dawgball]

Good stuff, clint.

I would interpret those a little differently personally just by reading them, but it sounds like from pirate fan's post that the Catholic church feels the same as what you posted.

"one is called to be a saint...." -- I would interpret this that everyone who accepts Christ is able to be a saint, but not everyone dedicates their life in a fashion that would make them a saint.

I have always thought of a saint as an example of how an ordinary person can do extraordinary works by devoting their life to their faith (regardless of that faith). I feel I am a good Christian but have never considered myself a saint (such as Mother Theresa).

 

[ceciol]

I've known several agnostics (friends and family) who found religion during their darkest hours.....There are those who find themselves in terminal situations when denial becomes no longer an option, no longer convenient......

Because they are scared shitless.