Coaches

[Irish]

I have a discussion question for the (IMO) educated fans here at MJ's on NFL signal callers.

After watching the games this past weekend. I listened the play by play guys talk about Reid and Belichick being great coaching minds. I over heard one of my buddies in a very heated conversation say that Belichick "was the best coach walking the Earth". I jumped in and stated other coaches names like Gibbs, Walsh, Parcells, Johnson and a few others. As I listen to the person get more heated in the discussion, I said I thought Belichick is a great coach, but there is no way he is even the best in the NFL (IMO).

At that time the discussion turned south and I was wondering if I was way off? Should disregard the discussion because it is based on opinion not facts and there is no reason for someone to get pissed off about a meaningless discussion?



:shrug:

 

[ET4646]

I dunno, he's pretty solid who would you take over him? I sure would love to have him coacing the Bills.

 

[Irish]

I agree, he's good but would you consider him the best football coach walking the earth?

 

[gman2]

interesting question, and clearly one that is completely subjective. how many super bowls a coach has won is not always the best criterion on which to judge a coach.

personally, my top coaches in the nfl right now:

brian billick
mike shanahan
bill belichick
jon gruden

no particular order on those three. i just think those four stand out as elite coaches. obviously parcells in in there, but hes almost considered a venerable nfl figure anyway.

its amazing how 10 years ago, fans in cleveland despised belichick more than any coach ever and they couldnt wait to show him the door. now he is an elite coach. however, in belichicks case, i think hes more of a defensive genius than an overall great coach, but not going to get into a debate involving semantics

 

[Irish]

they were amoung the coaches I mentioned along with Bill Walsh, John Madden and Jim Johnson (all still "walking"). My thought process was that I understood Belichick has taken the Pats to the big game 2 out of 3 years but he was with Cleveland for a long time and was not very good there. Other coaches have had runs of greatness, but can you compare 3 years to some peoples careers?

I said using his Logic why isn't Holmgrin or Shannahan the best coach ever? It is up to personal opinion and that was the basis of my arguement. How can you clarify someone as the best when there are so many great ones out there?

Was Jordan, Magic or Bird the best? Pat Riley or Phil Jackson? There are arguments for all sides, but thats why the term "best" is hardly used to describe anyone.

 

[Redfish]

I think that Shula & Levy should be on the list as well.

 

[Irish]

I agree completely!

 

[AR182]

i think it's subjective when discussing the best coach, best qb, etc.

imo, the best coaches now are:

belichick
shannahan
fischer
parcells
billick

all time coaches:

lombardi
brown
walsh
gibbs--it will be interesting to see if he still has it.
halas
parcells
landry
shula
noll

 

[dukie]

Being a New England fan you can call this a homer view, but what Belichick did this year has to be considered one of the best coaching jobs ever. The team cut their defensive captain Malloy the week of the first game and went into Buff and got smoked. The speculation started that he lost the respect of his team ect. He then went on to coach this team to thhe second bestrun in Nfl history 14 straight. He did this with alot of injuries to key players and playing a tough schedual.

 

[CWood97]

Food for thought: Belichick has won one (and quite possibly two)super bowl(s) without Parcells. How many SB's has Parcells won without Belichick?

 

[Talyn]

I think talking about how many SB's or championships is not a good way to measure coaching skills myself. I mean look at Phil Jackson, he had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman etc with Bulls and then goes to Lakers where he has Shaq, Kobe, etc. How many championships does he win without those players? I include Bellichek in the same breath as Parcells because they did it lacking any real standout, hall of fame type players, many times. Time will ell with Brady, but a good coach takes what talent he has, and molds the Off and Def to fit the talent, and wins consistently regardless of talent. By winning it may only mean going 10-6 or so, but with marginal talent that is all one could expect. Look at Gibbs, he won three SB's all with different QB's and none of them were considered all time greats. I also think a lot of people are overlooking Vermeil. He took Philly to SB shortly after being a very bad team, then went to Stl, that was something like 1-15 one year and three years later won the SB. Then goes to KC and they were pretty bad too, and three years later posts the second best record in the NFL. My point is good coaches turn bad teams around and make them better. Good coaches do not need to have super talent to look good and look respectable. I think oe can find many, many examples in many different sports too, and at all different levels. Just my opinion, for what its worth. Great topic though

Brad

 

[Nolan Dalla]

Great topic.

We all have different ideas of what consitutes being a "great" coach. To me, a great coach is someone who OVERACHIEVES with his rooster of players. Any coach can win with an All-Pro lineup, but a great coach wins with mediocre or less talent.

Given this definition, Here's my list of the best coaches in the NFL:

Brian Billick -- Won a Super Bowl with a rookie RB, no significant wideouts, and Trent Filfer at QB. This year, he took a team with a ROOKIE QB and made it a playoff team. Even in Billick's off year (2002), he went a respectable 8-8 with a team that had been totally decimated -- losing just about every major player and coach on his staff.

Bill Parcells -- Dallas possesses, at best mediocre talent. Offensively, this team is a train wreck. He still went 10-6 in his first year, not to mention a stellar resume that includes winners in NWE, NYG, and NYJ. Based on career acheivement, this is the NFL's best coach.

Jeff Fisher -- Always seems to win no matter who is on the rooster. No real stars onthis team other than QB McNair -- one of the highest winning percentages of any active NFL coach (I think it might be the highest, but I didn't check).

Brian Belichick -- A great defensive mind, in the mold of Tom Landry. Like Billick, has won with some real soft spots on the rooster. The 2001 Super Bowl season may be the single best coaching acheivement in NFL history. Mind you, that team was 0-3 and lost its QB (Bledsoe) before going on a tear.

The jury is out on Fox (Carolina).... but he seems to have the talent worthy of being mentioned. Also, Jon Gruden has enjopyed the advantage of coaching two very talented teams. Let see what he does next year before putting him inot the top 5 category. Joe Giv\bbs gets an incomplete, since we are basing opinion on prio accomplishment.


The Worst:

Dave Wannstedt
Mike Martz

 

[bjfinste]

Nevermind, I'm a slow reader I guess.

 

[baby johnson]

great writeup nolan....