Congratulations to the Democrats on getting something done on Immigration

Pujo21

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Fat Teddy threatened Bush with Chappquiddick impeachieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Fat Teddy threatened Bush with Chappquiddick impeachieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

The Savage Nation is on the air.

He says Fat Teddy Kennedy coerced Bush with this bill. Or else...................

You gotta love it ! :mj07:
 

IntenseOperator

DeweyOxburger
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no...actuallu i don`t rely on the illegal work force...and if they went home tomorrow,i`d do just fine...and so would the economy......

This country would do great. This supposed "crack-like lock down" on the US economy by illegals is the biggest pile of shit force fed to Americans every day. The benifits would far outway the cost of going out to restaurants and groceries going up.

We actually don't need any to leave today. Just stop all illegal entry now and we'd be fine IMO.
 

IntenseOperator

DeweyOxburger
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May 17, 7:41 PM EDT

Deal May Legalize Millions of Immigrants

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a striking reach across party lines, the White House and key lawmakers agreed Thursday on a sweeping immigration plan to grant legal status to millions of people in the country unlawfully.

Sealed after months of secretive bargaining, the deal mandates bolstered border security and a high-tech employment verification system to prevent illegal workers from getting jobs.

President Bush said the proposal would "help enforce our borders but equally importantly, it'll treat people with respect."

The compromise brought together an unlikely alliance of liberal Democrats such as Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and conservative Republicans such as Sen. Jon Kyl of Arizona on an issue that carries heavy potential risks and rewards for all involved.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said debate would begin on Monday, but he cautioned, "I don't know if the immigration legislation is going to bear fruit and we're going to be able to pass it."

Almost instantly, the plan brought vehement criticism from both sides of the immigration issue, including liberals who called it unfair and unworkable and conservatives who branded it an overly permissive "amnesty."

The proposal constitutes a far-reaching change in the immigration system that would admit future arrivals seeking to put down roots in the U.S. based on their skills, education levels and job experience, limiting the importance of family ties. A new class of guest workers would be allowed in temporarily, but only after the new security measures were in place - expected to take 18 months.

"This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity," Bush said.

Kennedy hailed it as "the best possible chance we will have in years to secure our borders and bring millions of people out of the shadows and into the sunshine of America."

Kyl said the measure wasn't perfect, "but it represents the best opportunity that we have in a bipartisan way to do something about this problem."

It was clear, however, that many Republicans and Democrats were deeply skeptical. Reid said it needed improvement.

"I have serious concerns about some aspects of this proposal, including the structure of the temporary worker program and undue limitations on family immigration," Reid said.

In a reminder of the delicate nature of the coalition, some lawmakers on both ends of the political spectrum who attended the weeks of closed-door talks that yielded the agreement deserted it at the last moment.

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., said the proposal "tears families apart" because a new point system used to evaluate future legal immigrants would value family connections well below employment-related criteria.

"When you anchor yourself to the far right and you give, I think, relatively little, it's hard to meet the challenge" of producing a workable bill, Menendez said in an interview.

Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, said he had "very serious concerns with the principles outlined" in the agreement.

And conservatives on both sides of the Capitol derided the deal as "amnesty" for illegal immigrants, using a politically charged word that figured prominently in campaigns across the country last year.

"I don't care how you try to spin it, this is amnesty," said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C.

The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward and obtain a "Z visa" and - after paying fees and a $5,000 fine - ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take between eight and 13 years. Heads of households would have to return to their home countries first.

They could come forward right away to claim a probationary card that would let them live and work legally in the U.S., but could not begin the path to permanent residency or citizenship until border security improvements and the high-tech worker identification program were completed.

A new crop of low-skilled guest workers would have to return home after stints of two years. They could renew their visas twice, but would be required to leave for a year in between each time. If they wanted to stay in the U.S. permanently, they would have to apply under the point system for a limited pool of green cards.

The program drew fire from liberal groups that said it was unworkable. They had joined Democrats in pressing instead for guest workers to be permitted to stay and work indefinitely in the U.S., and ultimately earn the chance to stay.

"Without a clear path to permanent residence for a healthy share of the future temporary workers, we run the risk of reproducing the widespread illegality that this bill is designed to address," said Frank Sharry, the executive director of the National Immigration Forum.

Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., said he would try to kill the temporary worker program because it would bring in a potentially unlimited stream of immigrants to compete with Americans for jobs and depress wages.

In perhaps the most hotly debated change, the proposed plan would shift from an immigration system primarily weighted toward family ties toward one with preferences for people with advanced degrees and sophisticated skills. Republicans have long sought such revisions, which they say are needed to end "chain migration" that harms the economy.

Family connections alone would no longer be enough to qualify for a green card - except for spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens. Strict new limits would apply to U.S. citizens seeking to bring foreign-born parents into the country.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who led the charge last year to push through an immigration overhaul, called the deal "the first step" and urged moving it forward before the politics of 2008 made such action impossible.

"We all know that this issue can be caught up in extracurricular politics unless we move forward as quickly as possible," said McCain, who is seeking the GOP nomination for president.
 

smurphy

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This country would do great. This supposed "crack-like lock down" on the US economy by illegals is the biggest pile of shit force fed to Americans every day. The benifits would far outway the cost of going out to restaurants and groceries going up.
It's not the fact that they are doing work cheaper, it's that they are doing the work. Our domestic population doesn't grow as fast as the economy. People are needed to fill jobs. If we had high unemployment, then it woulkd be a different story. Unemployment is about as low as possible, even with 10 million people working illegally.
 

AR182

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an e-mail that i received the other day...

an e-mail that i received the other day...

Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

Cheap Tomatoes

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent

From a California school teacher-

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America . (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it.
Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

There are many hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that contribute to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and legal way.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "politically correct" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR?
Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage

Consumers don't want expensive produce

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. there is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent

He qualifies for food stamps

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school

He requires bilingual teachers and books

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at taxpayer's expense

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed mat erial.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayer's also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!
 

The Sponge

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Just got this in an email and read it quickly so if there is something in this that offends others it is not my words. Just thought it was funny i just received this.

If this doesn't open your eyes... nothing will!







From the L.A. Times





1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people)

are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are

predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.





2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.





3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.





4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien

Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.





5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers

are Mexican nationals here illegally.





6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.





7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles

are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.





8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.





9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.





10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English.

3.9 million speak Spanish.

(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).





(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)







Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops,

but 29% are on welfare.



Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth

(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )

results from immigration.



The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was,

(after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION/

year, [Professor Don ald Huddle, Rice University ]. The lifetime

fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average

adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number.



29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.





If they can come to this country to raise Hell and demonstrate by

the thousands, WHY ca n't they take charge over the corruption

in their own country?



We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.







THE U.S. VS MEXICO





On February 15, 1998 , the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at the Los Angeles

Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican even though most lived

in this country. They booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held

upside down. As the match progressed, supporters of the U.S. team were insulted,

pelted with projectiles, punched and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at

the U.S. players before and after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve

Sampson said, "This was the most painful experience I have ever had in this

profession."



Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other non-European countries

can come to this country and get preferences in jobs, education, and government

contracts. It's called affirmative action or racial privilege. The Emperor of Japan

or the President of Mexico could migrate here and immediately be eligible for

special rights unavailable for Americans of European descent.



Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities and third world

immigrants should get special, privileged status. Some examples are Exxon,

Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine Weber, Starbucks and many more.







DID YOU KNOW?



Did you know .. that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side

of the defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals?



Did you know .. that Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican

national accused of murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so?

According to the L.A. Times, Orange County , California is home to 275

gangs with 17,000 members, 98% of which are Mexican and Asian.

How's your county doing?



According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994 , 20 years after

the great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast Asia , 30% are still on

welfare compared to 8% of households nationwide. A Wall Street Journal

editorial dated December 5, 1994 quotes law enforcement officials as stat-

ing that Asian mobsters are the "greatest criminal challenge the country

faces." Not bad for a group that is still under 5% of the population.



Is education important to you? Here are the words of a teacher who spent

over 20 years in the Los Angeles School system. "Imagine teachers in classes

containing 30-40 students of widely varying attention spans and motivation,

many of whom aren't fluent in English. Educators seek learning materials

likely to reach the majority of students and that means fewer words and

math problems and more pictures and multicultural references."







WHEN I WAS YOUNG



I remember hearing about the immigrants that came through Ellis Island .

They wanted to learn English. They wanted to breathe free. They wanted

to become Americans. Now, far too many immigrants come here with de-

mands. They demand to be taught in their own language. They demand spe-

cial privileges ... affirmative action. They demand ethnic studies that glorify

their culture.





NOW ..

WHY CAN'T WE SEND THEM HOME







HOW CAN YOU HELP?

Send copies of this letter to at least two other people ...
100 would be even better.
 

StevieD

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It's not the fact that they are doing work cheaper, it's that they are doing the work. Our domestic population doesn't grow as fast as the economy. People are needed to fill jobs. If we had high unemployment, then it woulkd be a different story. Unemployment is about as low as possible, even with 10 million people working illegally.

Talk about stupid statements!

Here is what is behind the compromise. The republicans got cheap labor and the democrats got future votes. Everyone who voted for that sold us down the river. Why are the hearings held behind closed doors? I stand by my statement that it is treason.
 

smurphy

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Talk about stupid statements!

Here is what is behind the compromise. The republicans got cheap labor and the democrats got future votes. Everyone who voted for that sold us down the river. Why are the hearings held behind closed doors? I stand by my statement that it is treason.
I never called your statement stupid, I called it ridiculous. You suggested hanging the president and 2 congressmen afterall.

The compromise also sets up better border control. It's a step in the right direction - something we couldn't get with the GOP congress. This seems like a pretty realistic approach to the current situation.
 

The Sponge

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Smurph i had to rush that because of halftime in the Basketball game. After just reading it again to me its just politics with one side trying to scare the other. Im not sure but the way it is spaced all over the place makes me think weasal got my email address somehow. I just posted it because we were talking about this stuff.
 

gardenweasel

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if djv`s post is correct,bush won`t o.k. a pay raise for our troops....

the dems won`t fund the troops without a surrender date...

yet we alow millions of illegals to break the law....and in essence break the bank.....


""The 1986 immigration reform, with amnesty provisions that were implemented and enforcement provisions THAT WEREN`T, is instructive. But there is no need to hark back 20 years to illustrate the bad faith of “comprehensive” immigration reformers. Before last year’s elections, the Secure Fence Act, providing for the construction of a 700-mile fence at the southern border, handily passed Congress. In this week’s Republican presidential debate, Rep. Duncan Hunter, the fence bill’s House sponsor, angrily noted, “We have $1 billion cash on hand at the Department of Homeland Security right now for building the border fence. . . . They have done two miles. I think they want to drag their feet and hook this up with amnesty.” They do and they now have. ""

lol...this is insane...has anyone considered what the fall out will be if the economy goes south and the unemployment rate goes up?...i mean jobs are leaving the country.....china`s undermining our currency......what is going to happen then?..

all of a sudden all the people who came here to do the jobs americans will not do are going to go home? .....go on unemployment?....or do we just assume that this will never happen again?....

and we have millions upon millions of baby boomers ready to hit the social security rolls.....

i remember the glory days of old democratic admins. with high unemployment....

eveyone else must have amnesia.....



god bless america....
 

gardenweasel

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had a chance before bed to peruse the immigration bill..it`s a monster......and something doesn`t jive with me...

if our govt has the ability to enforce these new complicated immigration laws, then why didn't they enforce the simpler ones we already had on the books?.......

maybe because they didn't
WANT to enforce them and they won't enforce shit in the future.....

yeah,that`s the ticket....
 

smurphy

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lol...this is insane...has anyone considered what the fall out will be if the economy goes south and the unemployment rate goes up?...i mean jobs are leaving the country.....china`s undermining our currency......what is going to happen then?..
You will move to Australia?
 

StevieD

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I never called your statement stupid, I called it ridiculous. You suggested hanging the president and 2 congressmen afterall.

The compromise also sets up better border control. It's a step in the right direction - something we couldn't get with the GOP congress. This seems like a pretty realistic approach to the current situation.

I advocate the hanging of anyone who votes for this bill. Not just the designers of it. Who will pay for the health Care of these people? The retirement? The education? But hey, your lettuce is a nickle cheaper.
 

Dead Money

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Upstairs watching sports on the big TV.
History repeats....

History repeats....

Under the proposal, people who immigrated to the country illegally before Jan. 1, 2007, could apply for provisional legal status when the bill takes effect. They can eventually become citizens if they have no criminal record, pay back taxes and a $5,000 per household fine.

They would also need to know English and return to their native countries to reapply for guaranteed legal entry.


Without militarily securing the borders (if we had extra military or Nat guard) no program has a legitimate chance.....

If I am not mistaken, Ancient Rome near the end of their empire, allowed and subscribed outlying ethnics...we know how that ended....

Bottom line is that we stole a good part of the West from Mexico, it is only just dessert that they get it back by assimilation.
 

Chadman

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I haven't had a chance to read much on the bill, but I have listened to people speak on parts of it. I do have some opionions based on that, but will talk more about it when I learn more about it.

Wayne, I was pretty much just jumping out with a political jab in starting this thread...really have not formed much of an opinion, and I do think it is bi-partisan in many respects. Nice to see something being attempted...this is an issue I doubt any two people will completely agree on.

As for Weasel, I think it funny/sad that he posts several rip/bash/tangent threads on the legislation, and then goes back to actually leaf through it to see what it contains. He criticizes it and brings up complaints - some of which were specifically addressed by the legislation - without evidently even knowing the provisions and content of it.

Never let fact or reality get in the way of a good rip on the opposition, right Wease? Better to rail on something for political gain, than fact check something before you type away. Way to go, brother. Right in line with the same dismissive people you continually support on most issues.
 

AR182

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I advocate the hanging of anyone who votes for this bill. Not just the designers of it. Who will pay for the health Care of these people? The retirement? The education? But hey, your lettuce is a nickle cheaper.

i think this is a first stevie....i agree with you 100% on a political issue.....taxes have to eventually be raised to cover costs.
 
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