congress ignored reports of prisoner abuse as far back as february

[djv]

AR yes. And Berg we will never get the complete story. Maybe CIA/FBI. I know his dad is going to stay after this till he gets answer. But if his son was undercover. We and he will never know.
Like I said above they did 9/11 without looking at any pitcures. Killers are killers any place in the world. Even here at home they need no excuses. Like so many point out here why get upset about few deaths in Iraq. More folks are killed on our highways and South LA. Wash DC or Det. I am not one of those negative people that said that.

 

[gardenweasel]

ar....

ar....

excellent point.......excellent.....

 

[kosar]

Obviously we'll never know if Berg would have been killed if the pranks at the prison hadn't taken place. It could have been the reason or could have simply been an excuse.

Can anybody argue against the notion that , on balance, these pranks set us back in so many ways? Or could anybody argue against the notion that even if this one incident wasn't inspired by the pranks, that many future incidents that *are* inspired by the pranks will likely ensue.

Not every one of them (or possibly any of them) will be announced on tape as having been a result of the pranks. But doesn't common sense dictate that these pranks will cause much misery?

After a whole two days since the beheading, we've apparently discounted the publically announced reason for the murder because a journalist was similarly murdered in Pakistan 10 months ago. I'm sure that the same people won't have any problem with speculation in the future, without any stated reasons from the perps, when people may just attribute these pranks to the atrocities.

If the most important thing to people is whether the beheading would have been done or not, then I guess I have no answer for that. I would be a lot more interested to hear opinions on how these pranks will, or will not, put our solidiers, civilians, efforts in Iraq and our moral authority at risk.

 

[gardenweasel]

k

k

while in my opinion,i do agree with a.r. that mr berg`s fate was sealed by his heritage,i also agree that the maltreatment of iraqi prisoners has further inflamed the muslim world`s hatred of us and given cowardly,backstabbing pseudo-allies like the french ammunition so to further their anti-american agendas....


while i respect our service men and women(the law of averages would dictate that there would have to be some morons aboard),i also believe they will be dealt with very harshly and will be laid out as sacrificial lambs for the world`s purview....and rightfully so,i might add....

while not for a minute am i comparing the humiliation of a prisoner to a beheading.....a ridiculous comparison....unless you enjoy self-flagellation...

 

[shamrock]

ya know ar, you have a excellent point indeed. Truthfully I hadn't considered that fact. Best of my recollection there has been no decapitation killings since Daniel Pearl, I surmised this was because of our refusal to deal as negotiators & our quick & efficient capture and imprisonment of those responsible. Most notably that fat hairy bastard (can't remember his name).

Again to the best of my knowledge no further decapitation killings have transpired. Maybe your dead on and their Israeli background was their fate.

So to answer your question whether Berg would have been put to death in the same manner, without the abuse pictures, I'm now not 100% certain, you do have a interesting theory. I do however maintain that these photographs & Video have done absolutely nothing positive to assist those Americans that are over there, quite to the contrary I think they (abuse data) have done nothing but inflame a already sensitive situation. Further enrageing the radical extremist, and possibly swaying the moderate Muslims we are trying to assist.

Like I said previously,interrogate the shit out of these animals, break them down day after day week after week, whatever!

I just don't see any purpose or meaningful results coming from making prisoners construct naked pyramids or putting them on dog chains. Seems like wasted child like behavior that can only produce negative results, to me nothing positive could be gained from this.

 

[AR182]

kosar & shamrock,


of course these pranks have set us back.

it is definitely playing to alqaeda's benefit.

no body knows for sure if these pranks caused berg's death.

shamrock quote:"I just don't see any purpose or meaningful results coming from making prisoners construct naked pyramids or putting them on dog chains."


i totally agree & photographing them is beyond stupidity.

 

[bjfinste]

Kosar-

Your two posts in this thread are two of the finest I've seen since being a member at Madjacks. Although I have very similar beliefs as yours, I'll be honest and say I take the low-road and frequently use a hit-and-run concept with my posts. But those two posts of yours truly make the reader think, regardless of which "wing" they lean towards. I applaud you.

Brandon

 

[MrChristo]

do you really think that if the prison incident did not happen, berg would not be decapitated ?

Agree, kosar's points are very good indeed (IMO)...But I'll take in in a slightly different direction....

...It just gets to me how so much hatred can be generated from one incident.
Now don't get me wrong. It's a horrible act, and I feel terrible for the family, but as for everyone else carrying on!!
You'd think that this guy is the ONLY civilian that has ever been killed in this war!!...In ANY war!!
You people who are suddenly "outraged" by these brutal terrorists...Do you really think that no Iraqi civilians have been killed?
Sure, it may not have been so brutal (or visual, more importantly!), but surely one needless, pointless death is equal to any other needless, pointless death.

There were reports here in Oz, of 3 young girls (aged 9-10ish) were 'accidentally' shot by UK forces last week.

Hey, sorry mum and dad, we just killed 3 of your daughters. Oooppss! Sorry. honest mistake.
Hell....they were only going to grow up believing this Muslim-everyone hate America crap anyway.

Countless Iraqi civilians are dying every week, but no-one seems to be up on their high-horse holding anyone accountable for that?

And before any genius jumps in and says "But they started it on 9/11"....I agree it was a hideous, deplorable act.
But revenge is revenge, is revenge is revenge.
It has been going on for 20 years....will it stop in our life-times?
Hey...There's a chance it might just stop WITH our life-times

 

[bjfinste]

[BDo you really think that no Iraqi civilians have been killed?
[/B]

Even though we're "liberating" them, I don't think many people here care. Especially not the people who post here regularly.

 

[AR182]

bjfiniste quote:"Even though we're "liberating" them, I don't think many people here care. Especially not the people who post here regularly."


how about you bj, did it bother you that saddam killed & tortured men, women, & children sometimes for no other reason than voicing their opinion against him.

 

[bjfinste]

how about you bj, did it bother you that saddam killed & tortured men, women, & children sometimes for no other reason than voicing their opinion against him.

In all honestly, I never really gave it much thought. From what I've read, it sounded like some twisted shit happened, but I never felt it was up to us to go in there and stop it.

 

[dr. freeze]

if its merely a difference between cultures than why would these infidels get all bent out of shape about terrorists getting sodomized while young girls who aren't clothed are routinely given clitorectomies?

this whole "culture" thing is a joke....these people are filled with hate and if anyone doesn't try to understand another culture it is the Arab culture

young girls failure to wear robe or father steals a camel -- clitorectomies are routine (this is approved throughout the Middle East)

terrorists sodomized -- behead all Americans

these pukes have their minds so warped and their media perpetuates such hatred for us that there is nothing to do but destroy them....they take any microcosm of our society and make it look like that is representative of all of us.....

meanwhile the liberal media advertises again and again what some sicko soldiers without regard to our national security....

there is no exuse for either behavior and the last thing we should do is tolerate this XXXX and #1 we should impose justice on the terrorists and ALL their supporters and #2 on the Jailors who have embarrassed our military with their perversions