Conservative or Liberal..What will be better for the US..

Equity Trader

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The 2008 Presidential elections is in full mode with many candidates going for the top job and with different ideologies..

I see a potentially worse case scenario if the country moves to the left politically...I have always been a free market advocate and with the last elections the liberals have already raise the largest tax increase in US history.They have already announced that regulation of how much profit from oil companies should be taxed and I'm sure that it will move into other industries..The war on terror will once again become a defensive position rather than go out and find them and kill them before they strike..They are raising the white flag in Iraq just like they did during the Viet-nam war..We are already seeing the double standard in their hypocrisies of moral clarity.Liberals seem to want to advocate Free speech without dissenting views and will lie and distort the real issues of our times..

In my opinion, I have always considered Democrats as better politicians than Republicans..Democrats will always carp about class warfare and that sits very well with their base..They carp about this and that and blame everything on Bush,but never really coming up with alternative solutions...They have been using racial slogans against Republicans of which Democrats maintains their hold on 90% of the African American voters..Incidentally,they (Democrats) could never win without the African American vote...

The problem here with the African American folks is their bigoted leaders like Jackson and Sharpton..These leaders have kept their flock in the gutter for years by always with their hated and racial rhetoric that it's the white mans problem..Thank god that Bill Cosby is expounding and making aware that it's an internal problem within the black community and they are to blame and pointing blame to others is just not correct..It just amazes me that they just don't get it..We have allowed expatriates from many countries including third world nations and most have feathered into our society and doing well..Blacks have lived here for generations and still are on the bottom of the social ladder and with the heated hate rhetoric of these leaders have kept them from advancing and all the while filling their own self-serving interests.My point is that the elections are not on an even platform and although I disagree with many of Ann Coulter's rhetoric,but she does make a point that educating voters on reading and understanding the political system should be a requirement..My point goes to Maryland's Lt. Governor that he has the R next to his name at the polls and the only notation on many of these voters minds are told to hit anything that has the D next to the candidate..A minority of blacks and more and more are distancing themselves from the regular African American voter as involved and really taking part in the system and consider themselves as astute in making sound judgment on the candidate rather than just one-sided party thinking.

Our Senior citizen population is a very large voting block and generally votes Democratic and with the help of AARP has also been manipulated in thinking that Republicans just don't care and wants to take away their Security benefits..The passing of prescription drug legislation has been painted by Democrats as a failure,but as the real numbers show they do make for real savings to their monthly prescription costs..Yeah it's cumbersome and way to much paperwork to delve through,but increasingly more and more seniors are realizing the savings..Again Bush gets no credit and the AARP is absolutely derelict and in acknowledging the benefits..AARP is just a liberal organization and totally partisan..

Notice the fat mouthing by Democrats on Wal-Mart recently..Wal-Mart employees with a clear majority does not want Unions, a large Democratic fundraiser, is about to backfire against them..Wal-Mart announced last week they will give huge discounts on generic prescription drugs for senior citizens and what a great move..Democrats in the early days hailed Wal-Mart as a great institutions and even Hillary Clinton was on the board,but because Unions can't get a foothold,she has now turned to the fat-mouthing class because she needs their money..Democrats are nothing more the hypocrites and everytime they open up their mouths they become even more outrageous with their lying rhetoric.Now the liberals have voted to do away with secret ballots to have the right to organize..

Hillary Clinton is one to watch,but is worse than her husband and has been caught in her lying about the commodities and Rose law firm and totally mislead and lied about Bill's whoring around since his days as Attorney General...If you didn't know what a comealian is she is definitely one..She will play to the party winds when it serves her best interest..She is more power hungry than Bill ever was..She has flipped on Iraq a dozen times and now has bellied up to the Move.org crowd and the far left loonies that have over taken the Democratic party..

Lets take a look at the illegal immigration issue...Notice again that Bush is getting the blame for not doing anything on this issue..This problem has been going on for years,but a good target..I don't necessarily agree with all of Bush's points,but I do feel we should have a plan to allow current immigrates some legal entry,but not just a visa handout and ahead of the line..More importantly, this area needs to be addressed first on border security and stop the flood of illegals coming in..Democrats won't hear of hit..They give us slogans like comprehensive plans,but they aren't serious..Democrats see immigrates as a huge voting block and in California as many Western states, many illegals vote and the Democrats don't want this to change and in their circles is completely acceptable.One of the most ludicrous plans instituted by Kennedy was to give illegals social security benefits..Hospitals in California are going under because of illegal getting care on our tab..Local jurisdictions are in some cities giving illegals sanction and considered Free Zones..This means that when a person commits a crime he/she cannot be asked if they are legal or illegal..Of course most of these cities are all governed by liberals and Democratic leaning officials..Go figure.I agree with a worker immigrate program and I'm not in the camp that they are taking jobs away from US citizens..That is a moot point in my book and anti-immigrates need to find something else to carp about.

Now on the appointments of the Judicial Bench on all levels..This is a real problem if liberals gain majority..You will have the party of Pelosi a left leaning San Francisco liberal and Howard Dean along with Kerry and Kennedy who are not moderates,but lean way to the left..Time and time again liberals have appointed judges who legislate from the bench on their ideology and not the constitution..Many liberal Judges are soft on criminals and will not judicate the punishment to fit the crime..The Ninth Circuit Court out in California is so far out there that 80% of there findings that go to the Supreme Court is overturned..We can not have liberal appointed judges by Democrats and expect our country to mirror the Europeans where everything is totally secular and absolutely ridiculous as a society....We need judges that will throw the book at child molesters and not flimsy sentences that put them in house arrest..Recently the far left has been challenging the death penalty and same sex marriages as a given right..I may old hat,but same sex marriage is out..I can understand joint partnership with respect to insurance and pensions,social security,but to force the community to accept same sex marriage, I'm not buying it..This is the one area that we as a society need to fully address if we want a hard left congressional body to govern our way of life..This will effect generations to come if California and Hollywood set the examples for our children..

Now on Education..Here is one of Democrats main hallmark and a total disaster..Their answer to everything in this area is put more money into it and don't concern with results..The teachers Union is a very large voting block for Democrats and poor performance gets rewarded..Lousy teachers don't get fired,but relocated to other areas..In New York a study was made on teachers that have questionable job discrepancies going back about 10 years..Although they found many teachers that were reprimanded from everything to playing around with students..Only one got fired..Bush's program on "No Child Left Behind" is an accounting of teachers performance on their ability to teach and is showing great results...Unions hate it and so do many teachers..This is called held in account and rightly should be..Of course Bush isn't getting credit..Problem with monies going into the education budget isn't really addressing the problem and why liberals just can't seem to get a handle on smart accounting..Every year about 400 billion and this congressional budget has greatly increased and still schools are in need of repair and teachers are underpaid..

Social Security is a hot button issue..Democrats sent an email to their members and stated "Just say NO"..They didn't even want to sit at the table even though they all understand and many who have stated in the past that this is going to be a real problem..The reason is quite clear..When Bush tried to get a handle on this the Democrats felt he was treading on their turf since Roosevelt initiated this program through his New Social legislation and the birth of Social Security in 1933-35...Democrats sent out the fear tactics to seniors and as you can see it went nowhere.

Terrorism and this year's main point on the coming elections..There is a clear distinction between Democrats and Republicans in this area..Democrats have viewed this issue as more of a police and law enforcement action rather than a military or offensive measure.They have as the past has shown to take the defensive position..The Republicans on the other hand are more in a offensive position and are willing to track these vicious depots wherever they hangout..We can disagree or agree whether Iraq was the right move to go into and it would've been far better when the First Bush (41) finished the job rather than allow Saddam to stay in power..I am in the camp that it needed to be done and leaving Saddam would've been far a greater danger in the future and maybe unable to dismantle his regime..There is no doubt that Saddam was a sponsor of terrorism and desired to become a major player and work towards the Nuclear weapon..Now we have Iran and it's desire to be a Nuclear player..Again we see the liberals blaming Bush for Iran's move towards Nuclear Arms..This just didn't happen on Bush's watch,this country has been snowballing the West for 20 years,but the Democrats and their talking points continue to shade the real truth..The Democrats even blamed Bush for North Korean's ambitious program and that actually was compounded under Clinton's watch..Clinton gave North Korea over a billion dollars as a carrot to halt their Nuclear Ambition and just as soon when the check cleared, the North Korean's went unchecked full force and Clinton didn't even have follow-up to monitoring what had been going on..

Just last week the Democrats all voted to get out of IRAQ in 90 days. They have stated they want Guantanamo Bay closed and come to the mainland and get regular court trials and personal attorneys.. If you leave it up to liberals they would be giving Miranda Rights to combatants on the battlefield.They have tried at every turn to lesson the tools to fight terrorist and makes one wonder if they really are strong on fighting them or trying to gain their trust and they will just go away.No.... They just don't get it and very well if they gain power we will once again be subject to terror attacks..

When we went into Iraq the liberals said that unilateralism was the wrong way to approach and we must engage with our European partners..Lets not forget that Clinton bypassed the Security Counsel when he went into Bosnia..Heck, how can we, when half of them were being bought off like the French who are nothing more than shady characters in everything they do..Can't trust the French their word is worth nothing..When we tried to engage our Asian partners to help solve the North Korean Nuclear problem the liberals came back and demanded that we have one on one..Also, when the US confronted with our European partners the problem with Iran,the liberals once again demanded that we open up a dialogue one on one..You just can't win with these liberals..The first few days of the Iraqi war and going into a couple of months the Democrats were all or most onboard,but as time went on and it got a little bloody and the death toll was mounting,the Democrats started whining and carping and all of a sudden they became quite hostile..If you remember and go back to speeches made by Clinton and even Democratic leaders all stated that a regime change needed to be made and a prolong Saddam in power was absolutely not in the best interest of the US and the Middle East..Now that going is getting tough and the weak once again are turning yellow..This is very typical of liberals when you go back into history..They have never been strong on defense and always seem to take the enabling and appeasement approach..

The moral attitude in this country has really fallen off and is almost in the gutter. The left it seems with their double-standard and hypocrites continue to expound their heated and disgusting language without consequences..Just listen to the crap from Opie and Anthony's radio show..Not a peep from liberal politions.If a conservative said something of the same towards Hillary, we would have major meltdown by the liberal media and Sharpton and Jackson calling for heads to role.The Air America radio show and the View's with Rosie and her stupid diatribes are just plain disgusting thoughts on today's issues and is where we are heading if they get total control..

The political environment is a real problem..Our society on Moral clarity is an issue and with our youth that lack respect and their narcissism, it appears is becoming the norm..

The climate for moving this country to the left is becoming a major problematic issue...France has seen the problem and recently corrected it with their elections to a more moderate than the socilialist candidate, our time and destiny is about to be rewritten.

Make your vote count..

Have a good day
Varok

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The Sponge

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How do we lose Auspice but end up with this guy?:shrug:

Chad break it down will ya cause i threw up after the first three paragraph
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Pretty well sums it up--however you could have elaborated on the major issue of war on terror a little more.
No doubt the #1 issue--to most.

dem candidates answers--

Edwards--War on terror is bumper sticker myth--to scare you.

Obama--"double foreign aid"--pay em off and they'll go away--

Hilliary--let me check and see which way she's tillting today :)

Their best chance to win in 08--as always go after prejudicial vote.

Throw out Obama--don't need him--blacks will vote 90% regardless of who runs and would allienate hispanic vote.

Edwards--no shot especially after his no war on terror halucination.

Enter Hilliary--will nab any women voters that are on the fence.

--and for VP--who better than Richardson--to nab the other minority vote.

Will say I like Richardson best of Dem candidates for pres--but he would be counter productive to party running as pres--but extremely productive as VP for party except with Obama as running mate.
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
""Democrats will always carp about class warfare and that sits very well with their base..They carp about this and that and blame everything on Bush,but never really coming up with alternative solutions""....

it`s like they`re playing a sort of democratic trivial pursuit game...

all questions..no answers......

the dem ticket will be hillary and either richardson or maryland governor martin o`malley(who is a pandering empty suit)....

you heard it here...
 

Chadman

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Just getting back to the for(u)m after a two day sabbatical. Just wasn't the same with Wease getting grounded by mom for the credit card. Time to get busy...
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Pretty well sums it up--however you could have elaborated on the major issue of war on terror a little more.
No doubt the #1 issue--to most.

dem candidates answers--

Edwards--War on terror is bumper sticker myth--to scare you.

Obama--"double foreign aid"--pay em off and they'll go away--

Hilliary--let me check and see which way she's tillting today :)

Their best chance to win in 08--as always go after prejudicial vote.

Throw out Obama--don't need him--blacks will vote 90% regardless of who runs and would allienate hispanic vote.

Edwards--no shot especially after his no war on terror halucination.

Enter Hilliary--will nab any women voters that are on the fence.

--and for VP--who better than Richardson--to nab the other minority vote.

Will say I like Richardson best of Dem candidates for pres--but he would be counter productive to party running as pres--but extremely productive as VP for party except with Obama as running mate.

Must be getting obvious--we have Dick Morris chiming in now--
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,294450,00.html

Richardson could be a strong candidate for vice president. In a campaign based on expanding the electorate to include previously unheard of numbers of single women, blacks, and Latinos, the Hillary campaign could well use a minority in its No. 2 slot. For his part, Richardson appears to be grooming himself for the spot by joining Dodd in attacking Obama for a lack of experience.

---and per the title of this thread--would depend on which segment of population your speaking of--in the words of Hilliary in 04--concernng the productive --

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040629-0007-ca-clintons-sanfrancisco.html
 

djv

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Who better I don't know if there is general answer. We find out when it's time for change. American people seem to know when it's one of those times. And It is.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Would be nice if these people were more exact on changes they want---must be pissed at thriving economy-low inflation-low interest rates-low employment-lower taxes ect --and want a change-ya think:shrug:
 

Chadman

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Yeah, all those low interest mortgage loans really made people feel great about themselves for awhile, didn't they? "Hey, look at me, I own a house - who knew somebody would loan somebody like ME money...right? Finally realizing my dream of home ownership - thanks to the fed, who suppressed interest rates quarter after quarter to allow people to buy so much stuff on their credit cards, because on average they are making less income on average than they were back in the day. I'm making less, so I guess I'll just buy more on credit, and the economy will hold strong." [Not my words...just a quote from millions of people these days that you must be referring to that helped paint your picture...]

Too bad 1/3 of everyone's tax money is going towards paying down the astronomical debt the conservatives created. All at the same time they were cutting all kinds of programs they don't agree with, and forcing local areas to raise taxes to help pay for police, first responders, schools, etc. Spend trillions abroad, so you don't have to spend them at home, I guess.

It's all a matter of perspective, eh?
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I see --throw lowests interest rates in decades out the window--because some bite off more than they can chew--same with credits cards

Quite amazing how liberals to find a negative in a positive :)

--but good talking points for the Dems when they are speaking to their base ;)

Lets see if I can conjure up some liberal base talking points on the rest---

Low unemployment
The liberal base--ya but how much they earning

Low inflation
The liberal base--Find a product or two thats went up and harp on it.

Lower taxes
The liberal base--who cares-we don't pay any:142smilie

--as you said Chad--all a matter of perspective
 

djv

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This question is to open for easy answers. There have been good folks in the past and even now from each side. What I believe is when the moderates of each work together. The country runs much better. Just as our founders I believe hoped it would. When we drift to far one way change comes. The Iraq invasion has started one of those move. You saw it last election.
 

3 Seconds

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threpublican.jpg
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gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
first off...they aren`t "liberals"......they`re "progressives"......

personally,i think that gives auto insurance a bad name so i like to call them,"stupidists"....

;ogic is not in their vocabulary, let alone their walnut sized brains......


weasel`s baaaack again.....:142smilie
 

Chadman

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I see --throw lowests interest rates in decades out the window--because some bite off more than they can chew--same with credits cards

Quite amazing how liberals to find a negative in a positive :)

--but good talking points for the Dems when they are speaking to their base ;)

Lets see if I can conjure up some liberal base talking points on the rest---

Low unemployment
The liberal base--ya but how much they earning

Low inflation
The liberal base--Find a product or two thats went up and harp on it.

Lower taxes
The liberal base--who cares-we don't pay any:142smilie

--as you said Chad--all a matter of perspective

Most economists knew that continually prolonging a normal raise in interest rates would catch up with both lenders and lendees alike. Too many people borrowing too much money at suppressed interest levels - all thanks to political motivation and strongarming. This has been posted in this forum and plenty of non-conservative-cheerleading sites and papers. These rates were held down far too long when it made no sense to do so, other than to look good politically. And now we see some of the problems with that economic "plan."

I do hold individuals accountable, but thousands - even millions - were offered a chance at the dream that had never been offered those dreams before. The sub-primers made it seem doable for those people, when they knew those people probably could not keep up. And the Bush administration took credit for the suppressed rates they essentially made happen, and the housing boom. And they certainly - as do you - take credit for all the purchases and tax benefits from record credit card usage for whatever they were buying. Then, you say these people should not have used their credit cards. Now, the administration - and supporters of it like you - are saying it's all the individuals fault. So, I guess, the teflon society is in full gear again. I guess then, the robust economy was caused by a run on credit - and since those people shouldn't have done that, then the economy should not have been "great." You simply can't have it both ways, as you continually try to do.

Why is it unfair to show that people (90% of them, anyway) are making on average less now than they were before Bush? That's not the same thing as low employment. People on average are not making as much net income. Period. Except for the big dogs - who you maintain are overburdened - who are making a LOT more than they were before. So, I fail to see your analogy there, because it is not accurate, IMO.

There are plenty of things that are more expensive, especially the kinds of things that average people need to survive. Rent, groceries, gas, energy costs, etc. Things that people have a right to be angry about - liberals and non-liberals alike. Especially the gas and energy costs, when this administration in it's first days created legislation to help them make the record profits they have made. Legitimate gripes, for non-administration apologists.

As for lower taxes and poor people not caring, why should they? They can barely make it as it is, and some can't even do that. Do you get excited about things that don't apply to you? Things that don't affect your life, or income, or standard of living? You blame the poor for that? Whatever...
 
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