Very good post, Josh. His response is coming, so get your popcorn ready! You are about to learn more about Bill Clinton than you could ever hope to!
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Very good post, Josh. His response is coming, so get your popcorn ready! You are about to learn more about Bill Clinton than you could ever hope to!
1st on the hyprocracy--We have diff views and have to agree to disagree.
You think I'm being hypo for thinking those who serve country should have some perks--but in same token you support base where 70% of children are clueless who their fathers are/have generations on welfare--and want to reward them with cradle to grave benefits???
Lending hand??--has led to generations of welfare whores--you missed the teach a man to fish parable--and give me a break on your dems
lending hand--how many times have I put up this showing your liberal pres candidates stiffing charity for pennies--ya they're big on 2 america's spiel but only generous with some one elses money--
--here is link--read it then either provide us with proof to the contrary--admit your been grifted/conned--or kurby like the rest.
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2545395#post2545395
Here's the facts once again on the character of charity preaching liberals when its their dime.
Gumby's 2002 return--
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...tax_return.pdf
Gave less than 1/2 of 1% to charity--of course he was still paying off those credit cards.
Biden a whooping $195 to chairty
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presre...Biden_1998.pdf
--and common knowledge on Kerry and Gore
"Two America's"-Kerry tax returns (1995 & 1991)have 2 years where he donate """0"""" to charity
Gore 1997- $353
---now on other side of fence we have the greedy conservative as portrayed by drive by media--
GW--heres a few from Goggle ranging from $82,000 to $334,000
1998
http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/105283.html
bottom line--everyone has opportunity for free public education- if they give a couple years to service they can get free college. They all have 24 hours in each day --what they do with it will determine their plight in life. You have examples from all colors and creeds of those that succeed--and those born with silver spoon that fail.
Life is an attitude--some take responsibilty and refuse to fail--others always looking for someone to blame.
Your last paragraph is my fav Josh.
I believe you are 100% correct--and before I see the entire U.S. fall into financial state of our welfare havens DC NY Chi--I'd like to see a divided states of America where each could live with consequences of their convictions.
The conservatives have the farmers-miltary-corporations--we'll supply food-protection-and jobs--all you have to do is take over financially responsibilty for your base.
You'd have financial utopia on one side and chaos on the other.
How would you survive without the conservatives--and why on earth would I ever want to set a foot in your liberal domain. :0corn
1st on the hyprocracy--We have diff views and have to agree to disagree.
You think I'm being hypo for thinking those who serve country should have some perks--but in same token you support base where 70% of children are clueless who their fathers are/have generations on welfare--and want to reward them with cradle to grave benefits???
Lending hand??--has led to generations of welfare whores--you missed the teach a man to fish parable--and give me a break on your dems
lending hand--how many times have I put up this showing your liberal pres candidates stiffing charity for pennies--ya they're big on 2 america's spiel but only generous with some one elses money--
--here is link--read it then either provide us with proof to the contrary--admit your been grifted/conned--or kurby like the rest.
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2545395#post2545395
Here's the facts once again on the character of charity preaching liberals when its their dime.
Gumby's 2002 return--
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...tax_return.pdf
Gave less than 1/2 of 1% to charity--of course he was still paying off those credit cards.
Biden a whooping $195 to chairty
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presre...Biden_1998.pdf
--and common knowledge on Kerry and Gore
"Two America's"-Kerry tax returns (1995 & 1991)have 2 years where he donate """0"""" to charity
Gore 1997- $353
---now on other side of fence we have the greedy conservative as portrayed by drive by media--
GW--heres a few from Goggle ranging from $82,000 to $334,000
1998
http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/105283.html
bottom line--everyone has opportunity for free public education- if they give a couple years to service they can get free college. They all have 24 hours in each day --what they do with it will determine their plight in life. You have examples from all colors and creeds of those that succeed--and those born with silver spoon that fail.
Life is an attitude--some take responsibilty and refuse to fail--others always looking for someone to blame.
Your last paragraph is my fav Josh.
I believe you are 100% correct--and before I see the entire U.S. fall into financial state of our welfare havens DC NY Chi--I'd like to see a divided states of America where each could live with consequences of their convictions.
The conservatives have the farmers-miltary-corporations--we'll supply food-protection-and jobs--all you have to do is take over financially responsibilty for your base.
You'd have financial utopia on one side and chaos on the other.
How would you survive without the conservatives--and why on earth would I ever want to set a foot in your liberal domain. :0corn
With all do respect DTB I would like to chime in on this.First thanks for your service.I also served in the weekend warriors(not for the GI bill but for serving which should be the #1 reason IMO) back in the 80's.
How is joining the military NOT some form of welfare?Yes some military members live off post and provide there own living space.
But most don't .Most are fed,clothed,and provided for by the Government.I am not trying to compare it to welfare in America because its not.
I do support the military system goes without saying.Our welfare system is broken no question.
The money is being giving out to the wrong people its faulty.
So what do we do get rid of it?Tell that to the people who worked at Wal-Mart but were told by them to seek the wel-fare system for benefits because were not gonna offer them.Tell that to the single MOM who needs to provide for kids but can't work for obvious reasons.
In a perfect world we would all be able to take action for ourselves unfortunately we live in a world thats not perfect.
Government gets bigger our(at least mine)pockets get smaller.Oh by the way I am not ON WELFARE,I am just struggling to get by because of bigger GOVERNMENT.
Later.
1st on the hyprocracy--We have diff views and have to agree to disagree.
You think I'm being hypo for thinking those who serve country should have some perks--but in same token you support base where 70% of children are clueless who their fathers are/have generations on welfare--and want to reward them with cradle to grave benefits???
Lending hand??--has led to generations of welfare whores--you missed the teach a man to fish parable--and give me a break on your dems
lending hand--how many times have I put up this showing your liberal pres candidates stiffing charity for pennies--ya they're big on 2 america's spiel but only generous with some one elses money--
--here is link--read it then either provide us with proof to the contrary--admit your been grifted/conned--or kurby like the rest.
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2545395#post2545395
Here's the facts once again on the character of charity preaching liberals when its their dime.
Gumby's 2002 return--
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...tax_return.pdf
Gave less than 1/2 of 1% to charity--of course he was still paying off those credit cards.
Biden a whooping $195 to chairty
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presre...Biden_1998.pdf
--and common knowledge on Kerry and Gore
"Two America's"-Kerry tax returns (1995 & 1991)have 2 years where he donate """0"""" to charity
Gore 1997- $353
---now on other side of fence we have the greedy conservative as portrayed by drive by media--
GW--heres a few from Goggle ranging from $82,000 to $334,000
1998
http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/105283.html
bottom line--everyone has opportunity for free public education- if they give a couple years to service they can get free college. They all have 24 hours in each day --what they do with it will determine their plight in life. You have examples from all colors and creeds of those that succeed--and those born with silver spoon that fail.
Life is an attitude--some take responsibilty and refuse to fail--others always looking for someone to blame.
Your last paragraph is my fav Josh.
I believe you are 100% correct--and before I see the entire U.S. fall into financial state of our welfare havens DC NY Chi--I'd like to see a divided states of America where each could live with consequences of their convictions.
The conservatives have the farmers-miltary-corporations--we'll supply food-protection-and jobs--all you have to do is take over financially responsibilty for your base.
You'd have financial utopia on one side and chaos on the other.
How would you survive without the conservatives--and why on earth would I ever want to set a foot in your liberal domain. :0corn
If we are discussing welfare, all welfare programs need to be included. There are many others, such as Corporate welfare programs, often justified by remedying some sort of market failure. Often the market failures on which the programs are predicated are either overblown or don't exist. Yet the federal government continues to subsidize some of the biggest companies in America. Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, General Electric, and others have received millions in taxpayer-funded benefits through programs like the Advanced Technology Program and the Export-Import Bank -- to name a couple. You also talked about farmers. the federal crop subsidy programs continue to fund the wealthiest farmers.
Why do we support such programs as good while individual assistance is bad? If one can justify corporate welfare lasting for decades, how about the single mom with 1.8 children on welfare an average of 22 months? It's not quite that easy when you think of welfare solutions.
Fend for yourself moms, some don't care if your husband was blown up in Iraq, killed by a drunk driver, or became a quadraplegic by someone running a red light. Let charity help you, the government will no longer help with food stamps, public schools, fire protection, law enforcement, military, defense, etc. Capitalism will take care of every single problem. Things should be fine without any regulation - ask Goldman Sachs, Citibank,, all politicians, Wall Street derivitive traders......
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I'm fine disagreeing on these issues. You are true to the conservative values and believe them to be the correct way to proceed. I see the liberal side and it makes sense to me. Here's what I've found to be true, your way is not the solution, nor is mine. The answers lie somewhere in the middle. More of a hybrid kentucky blue grass and california sensamilia.
I like that conservatives want sensible spending and accountability for these programs, that is beneficial to the American People. What I don't like is the fact that if just one person took advantage of a social services program then you're ready to pull the plug on the whole damn thing.
Hypocrite is viewed with a negative connotation and I don't want this to be a personal thing. So let me tack and try a different course. What I'm trying my damndest to get accross is that when you receive a paycheck it's not volunteering, it's employment and you more than anyone don't want the American Government giving perks for employment.
Serving in the armed forces and holding public office are very similiar.
Both are serving our country for the betterment of the American People. - In theory politically
Both draw paychecks from tax payor money.
Both get shot at from time to time - that was a funny
The thing is - I don't think you believe that politicians deserve perks for serving - that would go against the conservative beliefs.
If you don't have a problem with it - then continue reading
One of Obama's running platforms was to expand in principle the ideas of the GI Bill. Obama was ridiculed for suggesting that young people volunteer (no pay) their time and in return would receive tuition to institutes of higher learning. That's the same thing FDR did with the GI Bill except he threw in a years worth of unemployment.
Enough on this - I just wanted to point out that you would have a problem if a person who volunteered at a food bank received tuition and to me that makes more sense because that person does not receive a paycheck like a soldier employed by the US Government.
I'm glad you brought up the give a man a fish, teach a man to fish scenario because that's what popped into my head yesterday responding.
I'm all about teach a man to fish. The majority of people are because it's common sense. Plus it really leads right into your boasting about how many fish Bush and Cheney gave away below in the name of charity. But I'll wait on that.
So now you know that I am 100% on your side when it comes to teaching a man to fish. Where we are about to have a problem is now this guy knows how to fish but he doesn't own a fishing pole. Now what. Tough Shit? Should we give him a fishing pole? - The liberal way. Should we tell him to go get a job and save money until he can afford to buy a fishing pole but until then - no fish for you? - The Conservative way
You hate the liberal way above as I do the conservative way. So what's the middle solution? Loaning the man a fishing pole. Would that work for you?
I have yet to see one of the Welfare Whores on MTV Cribs. You can't believe that this is some type of glamorous lifestyle. You and I once again agree that there is a problem yet we are no closer to a solution.
--here is link--read it then either provide us with proof to the contrary--admit your been grifted/conned--or kurby like the rest.
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2545395#post2545395
Here's the facts once again on the character of charity preaching liberals when its their dime.
Gumby's 2002 return--
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...tax_return.pdf
Gave less than 1/2 of 1% to charity--of course he was still paying off those credit cards.
Biden a whooping $195 to chairty
http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presre...Biden_1998.pdf
--and common knowledge on Kerry and Gore
"Two America's"-Kerry tax returns (1995 & 1991)have 2 years where he donate """0"""" to charity
Gore 1997- $353
---now on other side of fence we have the greedy conservative as portrayed by drive by media--
GW--heres a few from Goggle ranging from $82,000 to $334,000
1998
http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/105283.html
There is not much to debate above. I take your numbers and examples as fact and that strengthens your argument.
But it also gives me the edge when it comes to personal freedoms. Donating to charitable organizations is a personal right and you more than anyone agree that you should be able to spend/donate your money the way you see fit. That has to apply to Obama as well. He has the opportunity to donate but it is still his personal choice.
Since we are throwing out tax returns - here is Bush's 2007 return - http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturns.nsf/Returns/43394514D22A89F185256E750075F0F4/$file/GW_Bush_2007.pdf
and here is a place that has a bunch of different politician tax returns - including all of clintons - http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/web/presidentialtaxreturns
I haven't looked through them - I just pulled one of GW's (Not you Weasel) to see what he paid
Bush's 2007 return
Line 43 - $719000 in taxable income
Lines 72 and 76 - Paid $221500 in taxes
30.5%
Gumby's 2002 return hat you posted
Line 41 - $230000 in taxable income
Lines 69 and 73 - Paid $69200 in taxes
30.1%
Bumbling Joes 1998 return that you posted
Line 39 - $139500 in taxable income
Lines 64 less refund line 65 - $35000
25%
How did Bush only pay 30.5% on nearly 3/4's of a million. Charitable donations of $165000. So there is some tax benefit to these charitable donations.
What the real travesty is that this money could have gone to the US Government and been used to provide body armor for our troops but instead it went to a charity that Bush deemed more important than our troops.
Kind of a bullshit argument by me don't you think? Of course it is, but it's the exact opposite of the bullshit argument that you are making.
This one is not going to change - You want to agree to disagree here we can. The fact is Obama paid the same percentage in taxes to the Federal Government that Bush did with 3 times the income. You want to call Obama a grifter but this provides facts to who the real con man was/is.
Oh - almost forgot - How is charitable contributions not providing a fish?
I can't disagree - That's fact
But you also know that the child born into poverty is less likely to succeed. I see this as a problem and I don't think that you do.
Our country was built with blood, sweat and tears to provide the opportunity for the American Dream. We agree.
The American Dream is not a given, it is earned. We agree.
We should help those that want to have the American Dream. We disagree
I don't understand why you would be against this.
I was so disappointed when I found out that "divided state of America" shows up 102,000 times in google. I thought I had a real winner there.
On to your thoughts, Two of the three examples you listed depend on tax payor money
Farmers and their farm subsidy programs that are watched over by the United States Department of Agriculture
and
The Military which is supported 100% top to bottom by tax payor money.
That's quite a bit of big government in your utopia and last time I checked the conservative base, that was a bad thing.
You can't have those without my (50% of America) Tax dollars, so you're SOL in that scenario.
My pinkie commie state of providing for everyone won't work either so howabout you and I put an end to this shit and start working on real solutions that are viable and serve the majority of this country. That means I have to concede some things that I whole heartedly oppose and your gang does the same thing.
Great point Wolf how can you argue it?
I"m sure he will find a way.
Sidenote,enjoy the coaching staff with KC should be one of the best.This years draft will be key.
Although I am not sold on there head coach.
Where do I start--
Rusty -How is joining the military NOT some form of welfare?
-Are you serious?
Joshua--Serving in the armed forces and holding public office are very similiar.
--again are you guys serious
Maybe you can of instance of where miltary service was used to avoid political job.
Would you like some to the contrary.
KC-continue to fund the wealthiest farmers.Yet the federal government continues to subsidize some of the biggest companies in America. Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, General Electric, and others have received millions in taxpayer-funded benefits through programs like the Advanced Technology Program and the Export-Import Bank -- to name a couple. You also talked about farmers. the federal crop subsidy programs
-True to some extent but your missing one very important point--all have contributed immensely to society providing food -jobs which produce tax revenue plus any one of above pay more corporate income taxes than DA Base combined.
--other than jobs in penal/justice system-social workers or those that manufacture bars for windows I can't think of much Da base contributes.
As I said--per Joshua divided society I remarked on.
I'll take the farmers -corporations-military-productive tax payers--
You got Da Base--and we both can live within the elements -end of story.
Joshua I do believe you are one of the few centrist--and I understand/admire and agree with your views to help those that need help.
Where I draw the line is those that chose welfare as a way of life.
Rusty -How is joining the military NOT some form of welfare?
-Are you serious?
Joshua--Serving in the armed forces and holding public office are very similiar.
--again are you guys serious
Maybe you can of instance of where miltary service was used to avoid political job.
Would you like some to the contrary.
KC-continue to fund the wealthiest farmers.Yet the federal government continues to subsidize some of the biggest companies in America. Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, General Electric, and others have received millions in taxpayer-funded benefits through programs like the Advanced Technology Program and the Export-Import Bank -- to name a couple. You also talked about farmers. the federal crop subsidy programs
-True to some extent but your missing one very important point--all have contributed immensely to society providing food -jobs which produce tax revenue plus any one of above pay more corporate income taxes than DA Base combined.
--other than jobs in penal/justice system-social workers or those that manufacture bars for windows I can't think of much Da base contributes.
As I said--per Joshua divided society I remarked on.
I'll take the farmers -corporations-military-productive tax payers--
You got Da Base--and we both can live within the elements -end of story.
Joshua I do believe you are one of the few centrist--and I understand/admire and agree with your views to help those that need help.
Where I draw the line is those that chose welfare as a way of life.
DTB, if you are talking about those who choose welfare as a wat of life, most people, including me, are very against that scenario.
And your reply to corporate welfare, WTF? Shows you can't argue the point. Corporations need to stand on their own without handouts - or go broke. Just like AIG and the banks after what they have done since their socialistic handout. Expect the IBM's of the world get a government handout for decades, you know, like indevidual lifer's. You can't have it both ways is all I'm saying.
And your reply to corporate welfare, WTF? Shows you can't argue the point. Corporations need to stand on their own without handouts - or go broke. Just like AIG and the banks after what they have done since their socialistic handout. Expect the IBM's of the world get a government handout for decades, you know, like indevidual lifer's. You can't have it both ways is all I'm saying.
