Deadbeatonomics

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Interesting situtation in recent Senate Budget hearing--Gregg (the guy that declined O's appointment of Commerce Secretary) basically called O and Geithner both liars before committee.

Gregg to Geithner: You?re lying

posted at 8:52 am on March 13, 2009 by Ed Morrissey


When Judd Gregg abruptly withdrew from his appointment as Commerce Secretary, I wrote that Barack Obama now faced the real risk of having created the most credible critic of his administration. That nightmare came true on the Hill yesterday when Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner tried explaining Deadbeatonomics to the Senate Budget Committee. Gregg chewed Geithner to pieces with facts and figures, exposing Geithner and Obama?s economic policies as incompetent:

In a hearing before the Senate Budget Committee Gregg dressed down Geithner with facts, figures, and charts. While always keeping his cool, the exchange was somewhere between a mother?s scolding, a drill sergeant?s questioning and an attorney?s cross examination.
In his opening statement, Gregg politely called the administration?s budget forecast a lie.
?The argument that it cuts the debt in half in four years is, ahh, is truly spurious,? he told Geithner. ?
?The argument that this budget doesn?t have tax increases [on everyone] is, I think, an ?Alice in Wonderland? view of the budget,? he said.
He challenged the budget?s math on cutting the debt: ?When you take the deficit and quadruple it and then you cut it and half, that?s like taking four steps back and two steps forward. That?s not making any progress; you?re still going backwards.?
​

The Washington Times reports that both parties have started backing away from Deadbeatonomics, at least as laid out in Obama?s budgeting:

[Sen. Kent Conrad, D-ND] said he has been beset by senators on the floor of the chamber, and they have not been heaping praise on Obama?s budget plan. In fact, they are lodging threats.
?There are so many things in it where I have colleagues coming up to me and saying, ?If this is in, I?m out,? ? Conrad confessed. ?And I?ve heard that on both sides.?
Conrad, who will be a chief architect of whatever compromise is crafted, has already made public his belief that the budget in its present form does not have enough support to pass the Senate, where it is difficult to stroll down any corridor without hearing either a Democratic or Republican declaring their firm opposition to one of its provisions.
​

In fact, the Times reports that cap-and-trade may be the first piece to get stripped out of the bill. As it has taken shape, its provisions have frightened Senators from both parties. Coal states and manufacturing states don?t want the industry-ending restrictions put in place, and other states don?t want to take home hefty energy price increases in the middle of a recession.
Clearly, Geithner and Obama have lost a lot of credibility on the Hill, and the honeymoon is over even for Democrats. Judd Gregg makes it a lot easier for Senators from both parties to fight Deadbeatonomics, since Obama himself selected Gregg for his ?fiscal discipline? and his independent spirit. As the President?s man, Gregg has the best position for pointing out that the emperor has no clothes ? and apparently no problem in doing so.

++++++++++++++++++++
liberal version of report was pretty much the same--from msnbc
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/03/12/1833945.aspx
From NBC?s Ken Strickland
It was obvious to most Capitol Hill insiders why President Obama wanted Republican Judd Gregg as a member of his cabinet: He's one of the sharpest money-minds in Congress.
But instead of getting Gregg's counsel within the administration, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner found himself today of the receiving end of Gregg's fiscal conservative wrath-----

 

[deadeye]

coal

coal

didn't he TELL the coal producing states he was going to run them in the ground and they still voted for him? idiots

 

[THE KOD]

Cheney says today that the economy is not his fault.

OK Mr President :142smilie

 

[Terryray]

yeah, the super rosy economic forecasts in Obama budget outline are just a cause of laughter among most seasoned observers.

worse, he has proposed expansions of welfare spending we all know balloon to greater extents later. Plus, he assumes a very safe world in a few years so as to get a post-iraq savings he thinks much greater than was hoped for in post cold-war world.

and still, with these best case scenario assumptions coming to fruition all at once, his proposed deficit (after the current crisis is over) is 3% GDP when it was 2% in the years before it.

Seen all this before. In many different administrations.

except those administrations didn't have the gall to title the outline "A New Era of Responsibility." :mj07:

Obama slick with his words, his soaring rhetoric. Like FDR in that regard--he'll probably stay popular with economy fixing itself despite his (worst) efforts

but he is smarter than FDR, and are some signs he is learning on the job, getting closer to reason and reality (i.e. adopting more Republican ideas). From the New York Times yesterday:

Administration Is Open to Taxing Health Benefits

WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as ?the largest middle-class tax increase in history.? Most Americans with insurance get it from their employers, and taxing workers for the benefit is opposed by union leaders and some businesses.

In television advertisements last fall, Mr. Obama criticized his Republican rival for the presidency, Senator John McCain of Arizona, for proposing to tax all employer-provided health benefits. The benefits have long been tax-free, regardless of how generous they are or how much an employee earns. The advertisements did not point out that Mr. McCain, in exchange, wanted to give all families a tax credit to subsidize the purchase of coverage.

At the time, even some Obama supporters said privately that he might come to regret his position if he won the election; in effect, they said, he was potentially giving up an important option to help finance his ambitious health care agenda to reduce medical costs and to expand coverage to the 46 million uninsured Americans. Now that Mr. Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so.

 

[THE KOD]

Obama slick with his words, his soaring rhetoric. Like FDR in that regard--he'll probably stay popular with economy fixing itself despite his (worst) efforts

but he is smarter than FDR, and are some signs he is learning on the job, getting closer to reason and reality (i.e. adopting more Republican ideas).

.......................................................

how did I know the neo con right wingers would come up with these type of statements .

the economy will fix itself :142smilie

 

[djv]

I do hope Obama gets the last laugh on all the nay sayers. So many said Clintons would not work. Of course it did work.
As for anything Cheney said. He should be in prison
so pay no attention.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

yeah, the super rosy economic forecasts in Obama budget outline are just a cause of laughter among most seasoned observers.

worse, he has proposed expansions of welfare spending we all know balloon to greater extents later. Plus, he assumes a very safe world in a few years so as to get a post-iraq savings he thinks much greater than was hoped for in post cold-war world.

and still, with these best case scenario assumptions coming to fruition all at once, his proposed deficit (after the current crisis is over) is 3% GDP when it was 2% in the years before it.

Seen all this before. In many different administrations.

except those administrations didn't have the gall to title the outline "A New Era of Responsibility." :mj07:

Obama slick with his words, his soaring rhetoric. Like FDR in that regard--he'll probably stay popular with economy fixing itself despite his (worst) efforts

but he is smarter than FDR, and are some signs he is learning on the job, getting closer to reason and reality (i.e. adopting more Republican ideas). From the New York Times yesterday:

Administration Is Open to Taxing Health Benefits

WASHINGTON ? The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as ?the largest middle-class tax increase in history.? Most Americans with insurance get it from their employers, and taxing workers for the benefit is opposed by union leaders and some businesses.

In television advertisements last fall, Mr. Obama criticized his Republican rival for the presidency, Senator John McCain of Arizona, for proposing to tax all employer-provided health benefits. The benefits have long been tax-free, regardless of how generous they are or how much an employee earns. The advertisements did not point out that Mr. McCain, in exchange, wanted to give all families a tax credit to subsidize the purchase of coverage.

At the time, even some Obama supporters said privately that he might come to regret his position if he won the election; in effect, they said, he was potentially giving up an important option to help finance his ambitious health care agenda to reduce medical costs and to expand coverage to the 46 million uninsured Americans. Now that Mr. Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so.

Saw that this morning--:nooo:

you know who'll be taxed to pay for those getting it free.

how bout his obvious transition on economy--was doom and gloom-until he got his agenda's passed-now "miraculously" overnight economy is sound --

--on diff tangent saw an amazing thing friday night--Glen beck had segmant -we are not alone--that had teleconference with thousands meeting all over in U.S. and troops in Iraq--wasn't aware of this movement--but it was amazing and just started. More on it later when pics come out of all the gatherings.

 

[Terryray]

the economy will fix itself :142smilie

Fix itself. That's what complex adaptive systems do.

The free market is the oldest such systems we've studied. Darwin stole ideas from market theorist Adam Smith for his evolution stuff. Cybernetics is an interesting field of study!

 

[THE KOD]

Fix itself. That's what complex adaptive systems do.

The free market is the oldest such systems we've studied. Darwin stole ideas from market theorist Adam Smith for his evolution stuff. Cybernetics is an interesting field of study!

.............................................................

TRay

your brain must be huge

have you checked lately to see if it is seeping out of your ears ?

:SIB

 

[Terryray]

There are cases of spontaneous leakage of cerebrospinal fluid into the middle ear, consistent with those of unilateral middle ear effusion. Myringotomy will reveal the presence of a profuse watery fluid in such cases. But larger than normal cranial capacity has never been associated with this clinical entity.

don't know about drinkin' white lightnin' tho. You got a source for that your neck of the woods?

 

[THE KOD]

There are cases of spontaneous leakage of cerebrospinal fluid into the middle ear, consistent with those of unilateral middle ear effusion. Myringotomy will reveal the presence of a profuse watery fluid in such cases. But larger than normal cranial capacity has never been associated with this clinical entity.

don't know about drinkin' white lightnin' tho. You got a source for that your neck of the woods?

......................................................

yeh I got a cousin that lives in Tenn and comes to visit me. Always brings me a pint of white lightning

he runs with a motorcycle club, and he tends to get me in trouble from time to time.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Cheney says today that the economy is not his fault.

OK Mr President :142smilie

Fuck him. What an asshole.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Cheney says today that the economy is not his fault.

OK Mr President :142smilie

Actually we had debate on that very issue here

http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358028

--and what we got was time line of facts on one side--and typical :142smilie and opinions from the others--now if anyone has any facts they wish to include --add it to debate thread.

Here was Cheney's comments--which ironically-mirrow those in debate thread above-

?We had, in fact, tried to deal with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac some years before, with major reforms that were blocked by Democrats on the Hill ? [House Financial Services Chairman] Barney Frank and [Senate Banking Chairman] Chris Dodd. So I think the notion that you can just sort of throw it off on the prior administration ? that?s interesting rhetoric, but I don?t think anybody really cares a lot about that. What they care about is what?s going to work, and how we?re going to get out of these difficulties.?

--and which assessment was incorrect ???


--and believe you missed other part of his interview when asked--

Here is the exchange:

KING: Since taking office, President Obama has done these things to change the policies you helped put in place. He has announced he will close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility. He has announced he will close CIA black sites around the world, where they interrogate terror suspects. Says he will make CIA interrogators abide by the Army Field Manual, defined waterboarding as torture and ban it, suspend trials for terrorists by military commission, and now eliminate the label of enemy combatants. I'd like to just simply ask you, yes or no, by taking those steps, do you believe the president of the United States has made Americans less safe?

CHENEY: I do. I think those programs were absolutely essential to the success we enjoyed of being able to collect the intelligence that let us defeat all further attempts to launch attacks against the United States since 9/11. I think that's a great success story. It was done legally. It was done in accordance with our constitutional practices and principles. President Obama campaigned against it all across the country. And now he is making some choices that, in my mind, will, in fact, raise the risk to the American people of another attack.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--a much simpler answer would have been---when you have our intelligence and military on all above changes and the terrorist :00hour

--figure it out.