Dem-bickering

DOGS THAT BARK

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Been waiting for this with anticipation for some time--let the bickering begin--:00hour


Washington Post

Not Sold On Clinton

By Robert D. Novak
Monday, February 12, 2007; A17



The buzz in Democratic circles for the past two weeks has been over the decision to raise money for Sen. Barack Obama by two or three multimillionaire liberals from Hollywood who were thought to be supporting Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for president. An explanation that this is the movie industry's delayed reaction to some of President Bill Clinton's policies is not credible. The real reason for the defection is more troubling for Clinton's campaign.

In fact, the Hollywood defections have the same root as resistance to Clinton's candidacy among less glittering Democratic activists throughout the country. A substantial number of them do not want to participate in a coronation of the former first lady because they still doubt her viability as a presidential candidate. They question both her positions on the issues and her skills on the campaign trail.

What's wrong with Clinton was demonstrated by the Feb. 4 performance on NBC's "Meet the Press" of a competitor, former senator John Edwards, who displayed the qualities she lacks. He took firm positions and admitted error, in contrast to Clinton's careful parsing. It followed his virtuoso performance at the Democratic National Committee meeting two days earlier that overshadowed Clinton's speech there. Comparing Clinton and Edwards, one longtime observer of the Democratic scene called it "caution versus courage."

For many months, long before Clinton confirmed that she was a candidate, her agents have been pinning down commitments from a staggering array of Democrats who were connected in large or small degree to her husband to create an aura of inevitability about her nomination. That effort hit a bump two weeks ago with the announcement that David Geffen, Jeffrey Katzenberg and Steven Spielberg, the founders of the DreamWorks film studios who all were thought to be staunch Clintonites, were sponsoring a fundraiser for Obama.

According to Democratic sources, former President Clinton got Spielberg to step away from a tacit endorsement of Obama. Spielberg has let it be known that he will host a future fundraiser for Clinton as part of a policy of helping all Democratic presidential candidates. But Katzenberg and Geffen seem to be clearly in Obama's camp.

Two theories for these defections have been put out by Democrats favorable to Clinton. First, the gay community in Hollywood is seeking revenge against Bill Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy restricting open homosexuality in the military. Second, the entertainment industry still harbors resentment about Clinton-Gore administration criticism of the material that is presented to children.

But these explanations defy reality, in the opinion of Democrats not yet committed to any candidate. Hollywood, including the DreamWorks founders, was solidly behind Bill Clinton in 1996 and Al Gore in 2000.

The real reason for not desiring a Hillary coronation, as described to me by California Democrats, is resentment of her cautious sidestep rightward over the past six years. They still cannot get over her sponsorship in 2005 of legislation against flag burning. The whispered worry is that Clinton as the presidential nominee would be a loser in a year when the stars seem aligned for a Republican defeat.

What's wrong with Clinton was pointed out by Edwards in his "Meet the Press" performance. He not only said he was "wrong" about Iraq when he first supported the intervention, but he advocated universal health care and asserted: "Yes, we'll have to raise taxes." Clinton has hedged on each of these issues (as Edwards pointed out in the case of her stance on Iraq).

Edwards is not popular with the Democratic elite, who view him as a glib and shallow trial lawyer. They remember that he began his 2004 campaign for president as a centrist Southern Democrat in the Jimmy Carter-Bill Clinton mold, but after not getting anywhere he switched to left-wing populism. The viable alternative to Clinton may be Obama.

Nevertheless, Edwards's "courage" energized DNC members as Clinton's "caution" did not. The point is that many Democrats are voting no on a Hillary coronation.
 

Chadman

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Yes, I too have been waiting for democratic candidates and supporters to start preparing for the Presidential race in less than two years. How odd that not all democrats agree on the best candidate at this point.

And to think...all republicans are already in agreement.

:rolleyes:
 

kosar

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Yes, I too have been waiting for democratic candidates and supporters to start preparing for the Presidential race in less than two years. How odd that not all democrats agree on the best candidate at this point.

And to think...all republicans are already in agreement.

:rolleyes:


Yeah, I read Novak's column a few times here and then read it again at lunch in the NY Post. Had a hard time finding who, exactly, is 'bickering.'

The Dreamswork guys? :shrug:
 

The Judge

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Been waiting for this with anticipation for some time--let the bickering begin--:00hour
Sad really that this "news" somehow excites you. Maybe it's the fact that someone is finally writing about something other than the Iraq debacle. :help:
 

kosar

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Sad really that this "news" somehow excites you. Maybe it's the fact that someone is finally writing about something other than the Iraq debacle. :help:

That could be it. Not sure.

Not even really sure what the point of that article is, and I like Robert Novak.
 

StevieD

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Just a question but who are the Neocons and the Republicans putting up?:shrug: :shrug:
 

THE KOD

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coronation_chicken_recipe_270.jpg


.........................................................


"The real reason for not desiring a Hillary coronation, as described to me by California Democrats, is resentment of her cautious sidestep rightward over the past six years. "


Thats hilarious to me that they would put the word coronation in any article associated with
Hillary.

PS - I don't think Hillary will settle for Queen .
She definately prefers King Hillary.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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"Sad really that this "news" somehow excites you."

Sorry it makes you sad gregg--but I find it refreshing they are in a frenzy covering their own asses--and I want to see who can shout--retreat the loudest now that the Soros/Moveon crowd has their hecklers in their midst--
 

smurphy

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Rest assured, DTB. Whatever 'bickering' or 'ass-covering' or whatever other silly descriptions preferred by Novak and yourself will disappear as soon as the Dem candidate is chosen. It's pretty odd that you are sitting back laughing. Last November showed the shift in thinking by the majority of Americans. Whoever wins the Dem nomination will MOST LIKELY become the next US President. That is the reality will have to deal with.
 

djv

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I as Kosar believe Novak not such bad fellow. But I do need to remember he is a Reb. And slant will be that way. This article way to early and lacks any real news.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Whoever wins the Dem nomination will MOST LIKELY become the next US President. That is the reality will have to deal with.
===============
Somehow I heard that before especially in 04 when all the polls showed war was not popular--however the real polls proved diff.

However I am not naive and will be prepared if you are correct.

Nothing surprises me anymore--It would be hard for me to see someone voting in a commander and chief--that refers to troops that died serving their country as having "wasted their lives"

---and I find it questionalable when candidate uses Abe Lincoln and civil war as theme and all the peace activist there whoop and hollar--but fact of matter he owes his appearance to the 600,000 lives lost and none to efforts of a single protestor.
 

StevieD

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Nothing surprises me anymore--It would be hard for me to see someone voting in a commander and chief--that refers to troops that died serving their country as having "wasted their lives"

---and I find it questionalable when candidate uses Abe Lincoln and civil war as theme and all the peace activist there whoop and hollar--but fact of matter he owes his appearance to the 600,000 lives lost and none to efforts of a single protestor.

I find it hard to believe that someone would support a commander and cheif who broke a scared trust and placed soldiers in harms way based on lies.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Then would appear we have very small field to vote from Stevie--as all concerned from both sides-received same intelligence and had same conclusion--

However some do not have luxery of doing the Kerry flop

Edwards Ok I voted for it then but woundn't now.
Ditto Billery--
Obama the best however--as he couldn't even vote--heard none of intelligence reports BUT was sure he would have voted against it--so that would tell me
A: he's lying or
B: he would haved against it regardless of what intelligence said.

considering--below--I'd lean toward A: ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-MYq2TZ73Q
 

StevieD

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Then would appear we have very small field to vote from Stevie--as all concerned from both sides-received same intelligence and had same conclusion--

However some do not have luxery of doing the Kerry flop

Edwards Ok I voted for it then but woundn't now.
Ditto Billery--
Obama the best however--as he couldn't even vote--heard none of intelligence reports BUT was sure he would have voted against it--so that would tell me
A: he's lying or
B: he would haved against it regardless of what intelligence said.

considering--below--I'd lean toward A: ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-MYq2TZ73Q

Only one guy sent them in. Stay the course.
 

Chadman

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Here we go again...the same old BS saying that everyone heard "the same intelligence." That is a complete misrepresentation of what actually happened, no matter how many times you type it.

They did not all get complete intelligence, they got handcrafted intelligence that left out the negative stuff. Period. I don't even have to say the guys lied. Hiding intelligence to achieve a vote (for whatever reason you are doing it - doesn't matter) is wrong.

The people holding all the intelligence are the responsible ones. And they further use that politically against anyone not falling in line, which makes it even worse.

One administration is fully responsible, and you continue to misrepresent the situation. How completely "Bush Administration" of you. Maybe you can get some kind of cool post, before they are gone.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Are you going to make me resort to a Mason and put up Quotes from Bill-Hilliary-Kerry-Kennedy ect prior to intel reports?

Sheezz how can a sane person come up with idea that a report was completely fabricated when when proof positive they not only had them previously but they used them.

Question--Considering above and considering Saddam says fck you every time you give him another resolution to comply what do you do Chad?
If there was bully at your childrens school that kept beating up your kid and you called his father numerous times asking him to quit and after the 13th call from you he stops by your house and tells you to shove it--what do you do?
 

Chadman

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You don't have to pull up any quotes of people saying that Hussein was a threat and that regime change would be a good thing. We all got that, and get that. How we all think that should have been gone about is the sticky wicket. I don't think any of the people you highlight advocated an all out attack and occupation of the country, though, did they? Maybe I missed it. We've been through this before, though, so I guess that point will never be allowed, for some reason.

I never once said the intelligence report was completely fabricated. Faux News analysis, at it's best, there, Wayne. I said important parts of it were not reported to those people, and with good reason. Those parts said it was a bad idea. Plain and simple. Hiding bad parts, to achieve a result. Not what I want in my President and administration - evidently that's ok with you.

I've had a lot of people say "fvck you" to me, and ignore what I tell them they should do. Happens all the time. I don't go to their house and take it over, though.

When did Saddam come to my house, or any other American's house? When did he even threaten to, or physically threaten any of us? He didn't. Your analogy is ridiculous, with all due respect. However, I sure would have gotten a bunch of people together and chased down Saddam's and his boys, since they did come near my house and tried to kill some of my friends - some I don't even know. Now THAT is an appropriate analogy. I wouldn't have stopped until I found him, I wouldn't think.

Really don't get your line of talk here. Never have.
 

djv

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Pay attention to Libby trial. Old Cheney was acting like co president. HE Was determined we were going to start a war with Iraq. Intelligences in end was not all wrong. It was how the lies were presented. And we the American people were sand bagged.
 
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