Do "the people" have a right to know anything except that certain books sponsor this

[Blazer]

Do "the people" have a right to know anything except that certain books sponsor this

yyz: blazer, people also have a right to know how a place runs, good or bad.

YYZ,

Do they?

Do "the people" have a right to know anything except that certain books sponsor this site and some posters prefer certain books.

I disagree with your statement that "the people" deserve to know how a book runs.

I disagree that we (posters on this site) should bash the books that provide us with the luxury to post on this site. To do so would be like biting the hand that feed us.

I am currently having a problem with a book. The book is a sponsor here on the site. I had to email said book FOUR TIIMES to receive a bonus that should have been funded upon deposit. I have now rolled over the bonus and I am attempting to withdraw the money. I have sent two e-mails (tonight I will send my third) to withdraw my money. I feel that they are at the least disingenuous and overtly bureaucratic in there service.

My point is I have not bashed the book because they pay for this site. I have not mentioned the incident because to do so may encourage them not to pay at the next renewal period. Plus, my situation may be an isolated incident.

If we continue to bash the people who pay for this site, we might not have a site to bash them on.

I can say that sportsbook.com is a good site in my experience. I have deposited and withdrawn form there with no problem. I think they provide great service.

I can say that betjamacia.com is a good site in my experience. I have deposited there with no problem. I think they provide great service.

I will never use the other book again. Thank you to all the services that continue to sponsor this site.

 

[Blazer]

Let me nip a comment in the bud.

Yes, I prod the "bot" known as Timj. All of my replies have been friendly and humorous. I have never put down the service and I appreciate their sponsorship.

 

[Agent 0659]

I think that is the entire point of this site is to share information with each other about all sorts of things. If Bet Royal would stop calling people, emailing endlessly even after being asked to take people off their lists, stop selling or giving peoples personal info to touts and services, pay people on time, blah blah blah, then they wouldnt have this problem. Of course people have the right to know. I agree that most things should be run through Jack privately first but if you think it doesnt work both ways you are nuts. I upped with Pinnacle, Betjamaica, and 5Dimes all because of positive feedback from this site.

 

[yyz]

So you are saying "pimp away!", if a book is top flight, and meets your needs, but if they fuk you in the ass, keep your mouth shut, 'cause they "pay the bills"?

Sorry, that logic plane sucks.


I don't give a shit if they pay Jack to advertise here or not! Poor service, is poor service, and paying to be a sponsor here does not give you the right to sell a crappy product!


If you are having a beef with a book, it's your right to bring it to the attention of others, so they don't go through the same crap!


I would rather pay $100 a year to post here, than have a sub-standard book be a sponsor here, if you are worried about the site shutting down.


Listen.....I'm not in here "bashing" these guys every day, am I? Every now and then, someone says something, and I chime in. I have no crusade. Buyer beware, I guess. But if you want to stay in the shadows for fear of "angering" a sponsor........that's on you.

These guys show no shame in having a rule that has no purpose other than keeping our money in their hands for an unrealistic period of time.


So, I stick by my guns.

"Investors" have a right to know both sides of the coin when they are putting their money with an overseas book.

You see blazer......most guys, even though Jack is a great guy, don't give a shit about his bottom line, or Bet Royal's, over their own.


They didn't dare bash
They didn't dare scold
After all, they're a sponsor!
"Play at Aces Gold!"......

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

I upped with Pinnacle, Betjamaica, and 5Dimes all because of positive feedback from this site.

They all thank you for the donation.



I disagree with Blazer but see where he is coming from. I think its wrong to just randomly throw out "pinnacle sports sucks" and leave it at that. If you have something that needs fixing and its a sponsor, jack will do his best to look into it. but i think its not only a privilige and right, but a duty to call books out. i call out bodog all the time when they put stupid lines out there where you can find a better line at 10 other books. and not just a few cents here and there, but big differences. you should as a poster talk about what a book is doing wrong so: a) members can be warned and b) books can see for themselves what needs to be improved. most books at least browse all the major message boards. but there are always two sides to every story. if you give an explanation, others can see where you are coming from and if you do happen to be wrong, explain why you are. i trust jack enough to not put up a site thats bogus if he knows about it. i don't play at "b tier" books or bonus whore, but if i did, i would have no problem trusting the sites to the left knowing that someone will at least attempt to help me if a problem does arise if i haven't heard any negative feedback on here.

gl

 

[yyz]

Also, if you (as a rep for a book) can come in here every day to advertise, you can come in to answer some questions.

I remember "Tim" crying last year about, "You could have emailed me......"

Yeah? And you could have answered a question asked in the same public forum you post in every day!

 

[Blazer]

So you are saying "pimp away!",

Sorry, that logic pays the bills.

You should give a shit if they pay Jack to advertise here. You are not posting on a free web site. This site has to be hosted and maintained at a cost. That cost is paid by the advertisements.

I would rather not pay $100 a year to post here, and have a sub-standard book be a sponsor here. I guess we are just different that way.

Listen.....I'm not in here "bashing" you. I mean nothing personal. I'm just saying that if you want to discourage people form using a (In your opinion) "bad book" tell them about what books are good instead of bashing a sponsor service. No, you are not bashing guys every day. Like I said, I am not attacking you, I just thought it was an interesting topic.

 

[Blazer]

You see blazer......most guys, even though Jack is a great guy, don't give a shit about his bottom line, over their own.

I guess that is where I disagree with you the most. We are all here to help each other. At least that's what I believed. We help each other when our daughters are giving us grey hairs....we help when a friend in need asks for an anonymous $5 in the mail....we help when we have extra tickets....we help when someone wants to know if the 3.5 line is too much....I give a shit about the bottom line here and bashing doesn't help.

If you want to help. Say betjamacia.com is a great book. Say I prefer sportsbook.com. Don't suggest a book that you don't like or that you feel is shady.

BDB - Yes, problems should be reported. Jack has helped me with my little problem, I guess that is why I feel like I shouldn't bash a sponsor to help him.

 

[countinguy]

Blazer, if you got an issue w/a sponsor here, email Jack the info and he will deal w/it directly himself. Don't be scared to call out a problem. And I am telling u JACK will take care of it, or they will not be a sponsor here much longer. He has done this for me in the past and I gratefully appreciate it. Not one Damn Book can shut this site down. Hell they are lining up to advertise on here and I know Jack is selective about it.

 

[AR182]

I disagree with your statement that "the people" deserve to know how a book runs.


of course we deserve to know how a book runs.....

this site & other similar sites have an "obligation" to share info about how books are run & what books play games when it comes time to pay the player....

of course there will be posters who have agenda's against books (ie...lost all of their money at a book) & bad mouth these books for no reason.....in this case it's up to the other posters to set the record straight.....

concerning the poster's (sorry forgot the name) problem with a certain book in another thread.....

i would normally be skeptical about a poster i'm not familiar with complaining that he is being "slow paid"......but i have read previous problems about this book at this site & other sites to be satisfied that this book likes to play games with the player's money & that i will never play with this book or enter any contests that this book may sponsor....

imo this forum & others like this exist to share info on games we like & experiences that we have encountered (good & bad) with the various books out there....

so based on my experiences (customer service & prompt payouts).... the following books will get the bulk of my action......

betjamaica
olympic
wwts
millenium
bowmans... (initially had a problem with them, but i understood their position after talking with one of their reps...
pinnacle.....not crazy about their customer service (they prefer e-mail than talking on the phone).....

if any person is wondering where to send their money......you cannot go wrong with the above books.......

btw, blazer.....

excellent topic for discussion.....

 

[yyz]

So, blazer. You are telling us this scenario is okay with you:

10 players have a hard time with a book here at Jack's. Let's say they all get told "the check is in the mail", and it doesn't come. It takes each of them 4-6 follow up calls, and several emails, before they finally get their money. The money arrives 5 weeks after it was promised.

Now, because they are sponsor here, these guys should just keep their mouths shut?

You are stoned, sir!

If we are here to "help" each other, then it is my duty to let others know about these guys. Maybe if I would have said something, the other nine guys would have put their money in a better book?

How do you think Jack felt when AcesGold folded up shop, and left town with millions of dollars of players money? A good chunk of that money was from people just like you and the other 5000 guys here!

He got his share of emails from aholes demanding he cover their losses, since he had them as a sponsor!

Yeah.....these guys pay to advertise here, but Jack wants reputable outfits only up there!

I'm in no way saying that BetRoyal is headed down that same path. I am not saying that they are a "bad book". I am saying that they have some seedy rules, and some seedy ways of handling things.

I have one other question for you?

Why is it bad for us to say things about them in the forum, but it's okay for them to place ads in the form of "posts" here? They are paying for banner space, not space in the forum threads. I find that to be very "spam" in nature, and another reason to not play at their outfit.

 

[kneifl]

Agree with a lot of the views in this thread. First of all, I agree with Blazer that it's in the sites and your best interest not to bash a book if you have a problem with them. It's probably best to just email Jack, and that is what I would do.

HOWEVER, just like yyz mentioned I don't think it is wrong to say beware about this book or that book; especially when someone says I am thinking of depositing with so and so. IF that poster doesn't have an agenda and is a regular I would definitely listen and the poster should not be antagonized for this. They should be thanked for this, and not everyone has agendas against a book but some may want to share an issue that came into play with them before it happens to others.

I'm not trying to be on both sides of the issue, just have views on each side. Get it, got it.

kneifl

 

[Blazer]

So, blazer. You are telling us this scenario is okay with you:

Now, because they are sponsor here, these guys should just keep their mouths shut?

You are stoned, sir!

Whoa, yyz.

Let me reiterate my points of this post.

1. I am not attacking you (yyz). Actually I'm not attacking anybody, I just thought it was a good subject. Sorry if it came out any other way.
2. Sponsors are good. A free site isn't free without sponsors.
3. If you have a problem with a book , don't bash it here, contact Jack and he will help.
4. Instead of bashing sponsors, one should advise people to use known solid books.

 

[yyz]

• Instead of bashing sponsors, one should advise people to use known solid books.

Again, I have to disagree.

"Bash"? Yeah, bash is not a good thing. Don't just rip on a book for the sake of doing it.


But how about this:


A guy is selling watches on the street corner. The deal sounds too good to be true, but several folks get talked into a watch, and get screwed.

Now, you're saying those individuals should just come back to the guy "after hours", and ask for a refund.

Me? I'm saying it's better that the person knew ahead of time not to do business with the guy.

And if I did have a problem with my watch, yeah....I think I have a right to make it known in front of a group of potential customers!

------------------------------

You say the way to do this is for me to stand by the guys watch stand, and tell potential customers, "You know....there's a real nice store up the street!"

:shrug:



The bottom line, as far as I can see it, if you have never heard anything bad about the book, then it must be an okay book!

We use word of mouth to judge people/places/things, every day. This should be no different.


Let me ask you this:


If a non-sponsor book was shady, would you want someone to let you know, or would you want them to keep quiet, because they probably pay the bills at another site?

 

[Blazer]

yyz,

This isn't about a guy selling watches on the street corner.

That isn't even a fair comparison.

Since you seem to need a comparison, think of this...This is how I see it...

A low-income AAU basketball squad is invited to play in the Gatorade Shootout. The team has to pay nothing, they play for free. While at the tournament they bitch about their Gatorade (provided on the side for free). "Is too sugary" says the power forward. "I only drink powerade" says the starting center to the local channel 5 sports reporter.

If I was the Marketing Director of Gatorade, I would not invite that team back.

If I was the players coach, they would run laps until their shoes wore off.

If I was their dad, I may be arrested.

I don't give a damn if the Gatorade tastes like urine. Drink water if you don't want it but shut the hell up and play ball.

yyz: Let me ask you this:
If a non-sponsor book was shady, would you want someone to let you know, or would you want them to keep quiet, because they probably pay the bills at another site?

I would not agree with talking about any other book, than those who sponsor this site. Good, Bad, or indifferent....talking about any online book is a form of advertisement that I believe should be held only for those who sponsor this site.

 

[yyz]

yyz,

This isn't about a guy selling watches on the street corner.

That isn't even a fair comparison.

That is a perfectly fair comparison.

As a matter of fact, it dead on accurate! You just can't see the forest for the trees.

Since you seem to need a comparison, think of this...This is how I see it...

A low-income AAU basketball squad is invited to play in the Gatorade Shootout. The team has to pay nothing, they play for free. While at the tournament they bitch about their Gatorade (provided on the side for free). "Is too sugary" says the power forward. "I only drink powerade" says the starting center to the local channel 5 sports reporter.

What about the $500 I sent to "Gatorade" to bet on the game?

You remember that? The $500 I won, and couldn't collect for two weeks? Is that ringing a bell?


This site and it's sponsors providing you with a place to play, have nothing to do with me, or several other guys, getting paid the monies owed to us from said book!

Sadly, I can only hope you run into a problem some day, because a guy like you, didn't want to "rock the boat", and a book got away with something on you that you felt was wrong!

Is there any point at which you would "call out a sponsor", or is it all taboo? I mean, slow pay, poor customer service, unreturned phone calls......these get free passes from you. What would it take for you to say, "That's enough"?

Shit, I hope Tim is tossing you a fukking $50 parlay for all this shilling!

 

[Blazer]

That is a perfectly fair comparison

No it isn't yyz. Your story is only applicable if the "watch dealer" is the sole intinity paying for the road you are walking on in order to find them.

This site and it's sponsors providing you with a place to post, have everything to do with me, or several other guys, getting paid the monies owed to us from said book!

Jack will handle any problem you have with a sponsored book.

Hopefully, I do not wish any harm toward you ......ever. This post was never about you. I just thought it was interesting.

Is there any point at which you would "call out a sponsor", or is it all taboo? I mean, slow pay, poor customer service, unreturned phone calls......these get free passes from you. What would it take for you to say, "That's enough"?

I have expirenced problems, I currently have a post about it. No, I have not named the book yet.

Shit, I hope Tim is tossing you a fukking $50 parlay for all this shilling!

Sure!

Ya, Tim where is my money?.....:lol:

 

[scott4]

i should have kept my mouth shut. jack and tim got it done and i received my money today. i do think people need to know how long it takes to get money but you are right i should have left this all behind closed doors. me and betroyal got into it and i was a little paranoid they would try to screw me they did not they did exactly what they said at how many days they said --dont like the time it took but after they explained it i understood. sorry i put this out in the open and jack is great.

 

[gman2]

blazer-

i only wish we could all live in this utopia that you seem to be living in.

we're talking about sportsbooks that are taking your money instantaneously at the click of a button when you make a deposit with them. they are doing everything they can to beat you. they are charging you 10% on every bet you make. these books are posting "weekend review" threads saying how they "cleaned up and killed the players" in certain games, basically insulting bettors as a whole in an arrogant "we own you" kind of way. they charge you fees to send them money. they charge you fees to withdraw your money.

... the least we can ask for in return is to be paid on time without any bullshit when we win.

you're a nice guy.
the problem is, you're too nice.

nobody is saying to libel the books.
that is beneficial to nobody.

but you need to stop convincing yourself that accepting the runaround is OK just because you are somehow concerned that they won't be a sponsor.

it's hard enough to beat this 'game' with a level playing field. but to get ****ed with when you DO win makes it incredibly frustrating.

 

[yyz]

i should have kept my mouth shut.

BULLSHIT!

Why? Because one guy is worried BetRoyal will take their ball and go home? Don't make me laugh!

Blazer, I'm sure you're a fine guy, but in all honesty, I have no idea what you are even talking about anymore.

Scott, you have every right to be upset for all the reasons gman mentioned! You get poked and pimped from start to finish, and when you want what is yours you get treated like a thief!

I could understand if it actually took 10 business days to get us our money. That would be a fair deal. But when they cut a check from a bank in Pennsylvania on the 9th day, and "next day" ship it to you.........well, you already know my stance.

If people don't bitch about this, it will never change! How do you think things get done, Blaze? By sitting back with your dick in your hand? If enough people say, "Hey....these guys are right", do you think a sponsor is going to pack his show and take it on the road, or maybe change a dumb policy?

We're not asking for a one cent line! We're not asking for a 150% re-load. We're asking for our money in a more timely fashion. That is a pretty fair request.