Do you rebuild a city below sealevel?
- Thread starter Agent 0659
- Start date
...... i get drunk to feel like crap in the morning....LOL http://www.popsci.com/popsci/scienc...ecbccdrcrd.html
Hurricanes
At 20 feet below sea level, new orleans is a prime target. An ambitious new levee system would decrease the risk
By Michael Behar | April 2005
It takes Scott Kiser only a split second to name the one city in the U.S., and probably the world, that would sustain the most catastrophic damage from a category-5 hurricane. "New Orleans," says Kiser, a tropical-cyclone program manager for the National Weather Service. "Because the city is below sea level?with the Mississippi River on one side and Lake Pontchartrain on the other?it is a hydrologic nightmare." The worst problem, he explains, would be a storm surge, a phenomenon in which high winds stack up huge waves along a hurricane?s leading edge. In New Orleans, a big enough surge would quickly drown the entire city.
Long before settlers decided that the shores of the Mississippi would be a nice place to raise a family, the river regularly topped its banks, heaping silt and mud onto surrounding wetlands. After a particularly nasty flood in 1927 that killed 300 people and left 600,000 homeless along the length of the river, city leaders in New Orleans decided to construct levees?some up to 25 feet high?to contain the swelling river during heavy rains. Residents had also been battling yellow fever, a viral disease spread by mosquitoes. From 1817 to 1905, the epidemic killed 40,000. "So people decided to drain the swamps," says Al Naomi, senior project manager for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in New Orleans. With the levees in place and the swamps pumped dry, the city could now spread into areas that were once uninhabitable. "But when you take the water out of the swampy soils," he continues, "they start sinking."
Today, parts of New Orleans lie up to 20 feet below sea level, and the city is sinking at a rate of about nine millimeters a year. "This makes New Orleans the most vulnerable major city to hurricanes," says John Hall of the Army Corps of Engineers. "That?s because the water has to go down, not up, to reach it."
The Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale defines a category-5 storm as one with "winds greater than 155 miles per hour and storm surge generally greater than 18 feet." Although hurricanes of this magnitude slamming directly into New Orleans are extremely rare?occurring perhaps every 500 to 1,000 years?should one come ashore, the resulting storm surge would swell Lake Pontchartrain (a brackish sea adjoining the Gulf of Mexico), overtop the levees, and submerge the city under up to 40 feet of water. Once this happened, the levees would "serve as a bathtub," explains Harley Winer, chief of coastal engineering for the Army Corps?s New Orleans District. The water would get trapped between the Mississippi levees and the hurricane-protection levees. "This is a highly improbable event," Winer points out, "but within the realm of possibility."
New Orleans has nearly completed its Hurricane Protection Project, a $740-million plan led by Naomi to ring the city with levees that could shield residents from up to category-3 storm surges. Meanwhile, Winer and others at the Army Corps are considering a new levee system capable of holding back a surge from a category-5 hurricane like Ivan, which threatened the city last year.
To determine exactly where and how high to build these levees, the engineers have enlisted the aid of a 3-D computer-simulation program called ADCIRC (Advanced Circulation Model). ADCIRC incorporates dozens of data points?including seabed and coastal topography, wind speed, tidal variation, ocean depth and water temperature?and charts a precise map of where the storm surge would inundate New Orleans. The category-5 levee idea, though, is still in the early planning stages; it may be decades before the new barriers are completed. Until then, locals had better keep praying to Helios.
Hurricanes
At 20 feet below sea level, new orleans is a prime target. An ambitious new levee system would decrease the risk
By Michael Behar | April 2005
It takes Scott Kiser only a split second to name the one city in the U.S., and probably the world, that would sustain the most catastrophic damage from a category-5 hurricane. "New Orleans," says Kiser, a tropical-cyclone program manager for the National Weather Service. "Because the city is below sea level?with the Mississippi River on one side and Lake Pontchartrain on the other?it is a hydrologic nightmare." The worst problem, he explains, would be a storm surge, a phenomenon in which high winds stack up huge waves along a hurricane?s leading edge. In New Orleans, a big enough surge would quickly drown the entire city.
Long before settlers decided that the shores of the Mississippi would be a nice place to raise a family, the river regularly topped its banks, heaping silt and mud onto surrounding wetlands. After a particularly nasty flood in 1927 that killed 300 people and left 600,000 homeless along the length of the river, city leaders in New Orleans decided to construct levees?some up to 25 feet high?to contain the swelling river during heavy rains. Residents had also been battling yellow fever, a viral disease spread by mosquitoes. From 1817 to 1905, the epidemic killed 40,000. "So people decided to drain the swamps," says Al Naomi, senior project manager for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in New Orleans. With the levees in place and the swamps pumped dry, the city could now spread into areas that were once uninhabitable. "But when you take the water out of the swampy soils," he continues, "they start sinking."
Today, parts of New Orleans lie up to 20 feet below sea level, and the city is sinking at a rate of about nine millimeters a year. "This makes New Orleans the most vulnerable major city to hurricanes," says John Hall of the Army Corps of Engineers. "That?s because the water has to go down, not up, to reach it."
The Saffir-Simpson hurricane scale defines a category-5 storm as one with "winds greater than 155 miles per hour and storm surge generally greater than 18 feet." Although hurricanes of this magnitude slamming directly into New Orleans are extremely rare?occurring perhaps every 500 to 1,000 years?should one come ashore, the resulting storm surge would swell Lake Pontchartrain (a brackish sea adjoining the Gulf of Mexico), overtop the levees, and submerge the city under up to 40 feet of water. Once this happened, the levees would "serve as a bathtub," explains Harley Winer, chief of coastal engineering for the Army Corps?s New Orleans District. The water would get trapped between the Mississippi levees and the hurricane-protection levees. "This is a highly improbable event," Winer points out, "but within the realm of possibility."
New Orleans has nearly completed its Hurricane Protection Project, a $740-million plan led by Naomi to ring the city with levees that could shield residents from up to category-3 storm surges. Meanwhile, Winer and others at the Army Corps are considering a new levee system capable of holding back a surge from a category-5 hurricane like Ivan, which threatened the city last year.
To determine exactly where and how high to build these levees, the engineers have enlisted the aid of a 3-D computer-simulation program called ADCIRC (Advanced Circulation Model). ADCIRC incorporates dozens of data points?including seabed and coastal topography, wind speed, tidal variation, ocean depth and water temperature?and charts a precise map of where the storm surge would inundate New Orleans. The category-5 levee idea, though, is still in the early planning stages; it may be decades before the new barriers are completed. Until then, locals had better keep praying to Helios.
OK, get this?leave New Orleans underwater. Fill the underground buildings with concrete and build on top. Basically, create a Venice in America. An above the water city and let the new city be built around on higher ground.
In Ten years it could be a huge tourist attraction ?The Modern Day Atlantis?. Scuba divers could dive in the newly created reefs. Mardi Gras could be held on real floats. The traffic and city crime issues would be solved. At the base of the Mississippi, they could encourage boating traffic and have the largest boat party every year. It could be the ?Sturgis? of the boating world.
Don?t call it a dumb idea. The dumb idea is attempting to pump out water from a city that sits in the delta of the second largest river in the world and is in a target zone for Hurricanes yet is below sea level.
Built New Venice!
In Ten years it could be a huge tourist attraction ?The Modern Day Atlantis?. Scuba divers could dive in the newly created reefs. Mardi Gras could be held on real floats. The traffic and city crime issues would be solved. At the base of the Mississippi, they could encourage boating traffic and have the largest boat party every year. It could be the ?Sturgis? of the boating world.
Don?t call it a dumb idea. The dumb idea is attempting to pump out water from a city that sits in the delta of the second largest river in the world and is in a target zone for Hurricanes yet is below sea level.
Built New Venice!
Blazer said:
Now there is some forward thinking! :clap:
Only prob is who pays for this stuff :scared
I hope it happens................
Saw this last night on a New Oreleans website, on the question fo whether to rebuild
Even when Katrina's floodwaters are pumped out of New Orleans -- a process that could take weeks -- the city will be anything but dry.
Buildings, vehicles and their contents will be waterlogged and covered with mud. Whatever debris is currently sloshing around in the floodwaters will be strewn about the city in enormous piles.
Everything will be waterlogged, most of it ruined. It will be a monumental task just coordinating the collection and disposal of debris and trash.
Virtually everything worth keeping will have to be washed off, decontaminated and dried out. The city's drinking water distribution system will need to be flushed out and disinfected, a process that could take weeks or even months.
Buildings will have to be stripped down to their studs and dried out with dehumidifiers, a process that can't even begin in New Orleans until electricity is restored weeks or months from now.
For many homeowners, the expense and effort may not even be worth it. The median home in New Orleans costs about $87,000 -- by the time you figure in debris removal, demolition, drying and rebuilding, it may be cheaper simply to knock the whole house down and build a new one on its foundation
Even when Katrina's floodwaters are pumped out of New Orleans -- a process that could take weeks -- the city will be anything but dry.
Buildings, vehicles and their contents will be waterlogged and covered with mud. Whatever debris is currently sloshing around in the floodwaters will be strewn about the city in enormous piles.
Everything will be waterlogged, most of it ruined. It will be a monumental task just coordinating the collection and disposal of debris and trash.
Virtually everything worth keeping will have to be washed off, decontaminated and dried out. The city's drinking water distribution system will need to be flushed out and disinfected, a process that could take weeks or even months.
Buildings will have to be stripped down to their studs and dried out with dehumidifiers, a process that can't even begin in New Orleans until electricity is restored weeks or months from now.
For many homeowners, the expense and effort may not even be worth it. The median home in New Orleans costs about $87,000 -- by the time you figure in debris removal, demolition, drying and rebuilding, it may be cheaper simply to knock the whole house down and build a new one on its foundation
Franky Wright said:
I have a couple of ideas on who is going to pay first it's going to some federal tax dollars however we need to stop sending aid to other countries and take care of our own. There are plenty of casinos in Louisana so they can help as well. In exchange for getting this aid I would have people also take ownership. It seems most of the displaced folks are from the ghetto, that's just a fact of life. However if they plan to rebuild and want free aid there seems to be quite a number of strapping young bucks running around with not much to do...put them to work (quid pro quo)! Drop off a load of lumber a funded journeyman carpenter and make the people who live there dig every ditch, drive every nail, pick up every scrap (quite frankly it's what I would want to do if I lost my home). Maybe this way people will take some ownership of THEIR neighborhoods, keep them clean safe etc. If they put some skin in the game on rebuilding then I would hope that there is some sense of ownership and policing of our own so to speak and not allow a few bad apples ruin whole neighborhoods. Also they need to fire the Mayor/Governor and up the chain (there was not a Guiliani of this crisis) this was very mismanaged. Not to mention the people who did not evacute and stayed around with the intent to loot (don't kid yourself folks planned that sh*t) , no mercy for those bastids.
Last edited:
If they do rebild they better consult the Dutch who have built some real nice dikes and levees in the Netherlands.
Ban me if you want Jack, but I am sending out a BIG **** YOU to anyone who posts or posted that the city should not be rebuilt.
Bahama Mama--- You're obviously a real braniac, so please answer the following questions. Why the **** are San Fran and LA ok on fault-lines, and New Orleans is not in flood plains. Should Amsterdam also be moved???? ****ing ridiculous.
The levee system, for those who care, was built to handle a cat-3 storm. Cat-5 storm levee system will now be constructed over the next few years. This city, my city, will return to form. Sure, it will take time, but we will get it done. All nay-sayers can just **** OFF.
Bahama Mama--- You're obviously a real braniac, so please answer the following questions. Why the **** are San Fran and LA ok on fault-lines, and New Orleans is not in flood plains. Should Amsterdam also be moved???? ****ing ridiculous.
The levee system, for those who care, was built to handle a cat-3 storm. Cat-5 storm levee system will now be constructed over the next few years. This city, my city, will return to form. Sure, it will take time, but we will get it done. All nay-sayers can just **** OFF.
of coarse you rebuild. next time you make the system better. flooding will not be as bad after this type of storm.
how many millions live in places that can be flooded, fault lines, even the number of millions living in desert that the major challenge is to get the amount of water to serve the populations.
repair, rebuild, restart.
many areas have faced flooding in North America in the past, after the disaster systems are put in place so when the next event happens there is far less damage.
thanks
selkirk
how many millions live in places that can be flooded, fault lines, even the number of millions living in desert that the major challenge is to get the amount of water to serve the populations.
repair, rebuild, restart.
many areas have faced flooding in North America in the past, after the disaster systems are put in place so when the next event happens there is far less damage.
thanks
selkirk
