Dogs, Marine, or other servicemen

[shamrock]

watching Date line last night about Afghanistan, several questions came to mind.

How can you be a army ranger at 18, aren't these the best of the best in the army. How can you possibly be considered the cream of the army when you have never even set boots out of country or been shot at.

This program dealt with the initial assault against the Taliban. 3 days before the attack, CIA advised army that Taliban forces were 5 times what they previously had thought, this information was confirmed from a flying drown. CIA also reported the Taliban were extremely well armed & dug in very well in high advantageous ground.

In this scenario don't we have more seasoned professional soldiers to send in this environment. Why would anyone send as first deployment 18-20yr old "rangers", that have absolutely no battle experience, never mind under these less than advantageous circumstances.

Just didn't make sense to me.*

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Will tell you what I know about it Shamrock. After basic or AIT--I forget which-- there were about 4 or 5 that were asked if they would like to pursue ranger school. I believe 2 said yes a guy by name of Kunenbroad and one named Hurley--Kukenbroad was from NY believe it or not--. They were around age 19 probably. The reasons the 5 were chosen is they scored very high in all phases of training especially PT (Physical Training).
It was explained to them if they chose that route it was no guarantee they would make it--and many would be cut in the training that would follow.Wish I knew if either made it through next step but I don't.
I would say it is not unlikely there are some that age that qualified and if so and their unit was sent they would go like everyone else.

 

[marine]

I hear what you are saying shamrock. It does look a little odd and you have to question the validity of the statement that they are an elite fighting unit when there are such young and inexperienced people in the group wearing the label.

Rangers have always been the butt of our jokes. But, they have all been trained pretty heavily and can hold up to the toughen physical standards and training drills that have been thrown at them. The thing to remember is the that Army is not known for the small unit fighting capabilities. The Rangers have pretty high population numbers and are an extension of the army. It's not like they are SEALs or Force Recon from the USMC. They are more or less (in my opinion) a forward reaching part of the larger Army ground force behind them. In short, they could be considered the "tip of the army fighting spear" and have the large mass army soldiers coming up behind them with support.
These are NOT the folks that can go in with a sqaud of 12 and utterly vaporize a company sized group of enemy soldiers in close in combat as a SEAL sqaud or even a motived Rifle Squad from the USMC is trained to do.
Army folks still go in and occupy space. It's what they do. Hold the space so the enemy can't hold it.

*note, my opinions while more or less accurate take on a slightly pro-Naval/USMC slant due to superior brainwashing techniques.

 

[IntenseOperator]

*note, my opinions while more or less accurate take on a slightly pro-Naval/USMC slant due to superior brainwashing techniques.

:142smilie

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Just read Marines take and also find that for most part accurate--when I was in hospital at Camh Ran Bay got to see Seals train--brutal.Were throwing them in water with hands and feet bound day I was watching and had to maintain for 20 minutes or so--very few were retrieved out of necessity.

Baddest boys on block I ever had pleasure of serving beside where ROK's (from republic of korea) Unbelievebly ferocious--however never had pleasure of company of Seals or Marines so can't make comparison.

 

[shamrock]

thanks for the insight guys. I don't know if you guys saw this program on television last evening, but this scenario for all purposes looked like somewhere where you would want a unit like MARINE is talking about. Trying to land a Shinook helicopter on a mountain side with a group of rangers where not one single guy has any combat experience, against a enemy of seasoned, extremely well dug in & armed enemy, looked like a absolute suicide mission. Is this usually protocol? Its my understanding there was Seal units and special forces in Afghanistan.

 

[marine]

SEAL training is nucking futz. Yer looking at a starting class of 200 and graduating 17 if you are lucky 6 months later.
Lots are dropped voluntarily.
Some are dropped "voluntarily" because the Chiefs can see the candidate won't hack it out in the real fighting and they make it a personal vow to beat the ever living sh*t outta the guy until he decides to "voluntarily" drop.
Many are dropped due to medical reasons. Broken legs, hypothermia, hallucinations, 100 stitches across your back. yup, it's that rough.
They get an option to go through it all over again if they are med dropped. Not many take that option again.
I know 4 guys that made it thru it. Tuff hombres. Yes, there are primarily special forces in afghanistan. Why? because they operate in 2 man groups and blend in with the local population. They are the only ones that can really do anything over there because they are trained to operate in smaller groups and can make battlefield decisions on their own without having to look back behind them for the cavalry to issue orders to them on which way to shoot.

Seals are not the kind of guys you want going face to face with an entrenched enemy unit. Seals are the guys you send out about 3 months before you want to attack and they will go sneak around and tell you what color underwear the enemy's commander is wearing the day of the attack and what seat at the dinner table the guy sits at.
their calling is stealth, ambush, capture scenarios. Their tactics do not call for face to face large clashes.

To get a feel for seal training, beat yourself in the head and all about your body with a hammer until you pass out.
Then have your buddy pick up the hammer and continue to beat you.
When you wake back up it will be like week4.
Remember - it's 6 months long.

 

[djv]

The 18 to 21 year old kids can go all day and not get tired. And they do there job and don't ask questions. You will find with each group of 12 to 16 even less. A little older very well trained leader or maybe two. With Rangers believe they can stay in to age 30. Seals I believe your done at 25/26. However you can be instructors after that. This is old school info so I could be way off with changes made last 40 years.