dubious link between atta & saddam

AR182

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i read this article on the msnbc website & thought it was interesting. i still think there is a link between saddam & alqaeda.

Dec. 17 - A widely publicized Iraqi document that purports to show that September 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta visited Baghdad in the summer of 2001 is probably a fabrication that is contradicted by U.S. law-enforcement records showing Atta was staying at cheap motels and apartments in the United States when the trip presumably would have taken place, according to U.S. law enforcement officials and FBI documents.

The new document, supposedly written by the chief of the Iraqi intelligence service, was trumpeted by the Sunday Telegraph of London earlier this week in a front-page story that broke hours before the dramatic capture of Saddam Hussein. TERRORIST BEHIND SEPTEMBER 11 STRIKE WAS TRAINED BY SADDAM, ran the headline on the story written by Con Coughlin, a Telegraph correspondent and the author of the book "Saddam: The Secret Life."

Coughlin's account was picked up by newspapers around the world and was cited the next day by New York Times columnist William Safire. But U.S. officials and a leading Iraqi document expert tell NEWSWEEK that the document is most likely a forgery?part of a thriving new trade in dubious Iraqi documents that has cropped up in the wake of the collapse of Saddam's regime.

"It's a lucrative business," says Hassan Mneimneh, codirector of an Iraqi exile research group reviewing millions of captured Iraqi government documents. "There's an active document trade taking place ? You have fraudulent documents that are being fabricated and sold" for hundreds of dollars a piece.

Mneimneh said he hadn't seen the Telegraph document that purports to place Atta in Baghdad. But he, along with senior U.S. law-enforcement and intelligence officials, said the claims of an Atta trip to Iraq in the months before the September 11 attacks were highly implausible?and contradicted by a wealth of information that has been collected about Atta's movements during the period he was plotting the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

The Telegraph story was apparently written with a political purpose: to bolster Bush administration claims of a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam's regime. The paper described a "handwritten memo" that was supposedly sent to Saddam Hussein by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, chief of Iraqi intelligence at the time. It describes a three-day "work program" that Atta had undertaken in Baghdad under the tutelage of notorious Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal, who lived in the Iraqi capital until his death under suspicious circumstances in August 2002.

"Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian national, came with Abu Ammer [who is unidentified] and we hosted him in Abu Nidal's house at Al-Dora under our direct supervision," the document states. "We arranged a work program for him for three days with a team dedicated to working with him ... He displayed extraordinary effort and showed a firm commitment to lead the team which will be responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy."

The document, which according to Coughlin was supplied by Iraq's interim government, doesn't say exactly when Atta was supposed to have actually flown to Baghdad. But the memo is dated July 1, 2001, and Coughlin himself places the trip as the summer of 2001.

The problem with this, say U.S. law enforcement officials, is that the FBI has compiled a highly detailed time line for Atta's movements throughout the spring and summer of 2001 based on a mountain of documentary evidence, including airline records, ATM withdrawals and hotel receipts. Those records show Atta crisscrossing the United States during this period?making only one overseas trip, an 11-day visit to Spain that didn't begin until six days after the date of the Iraqi memo.

One FBI document, labeled "Law Enforcement Sensitive," states that during the summer of 2001, Atta "conducted extensive travel" that included visits in Florida, Boston, New York, New Jersey and Las Vegas. Indeed, this and other FBI documents show that during the last few days in June?when the presumed Iraq trip would appear to have occurred?almost all of Atta's movements are accounted for: On June 27, 2001, Atta flew from Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., to Boston. On the morning of June 28, he traveled from Boston to San Francisco (flying first class) where he switched planes and landed in Las Vegas that afternoon at 2:41 p.m. That afternoon, he rented a Chevrolet Malibu from an Alamo rental-car office, set up an account at an Internet caf? called the Cyber Zone and checked into the EconoLodge motel on Las Vegas Boulevard, a cheap motel in a neighborhood of seedy strip joints that is located barely two blocks from the local FBI office.

The FBI records show Atta logged onto his Cyber Zone Internet account five times over the next two days and then checked out of the EconoLodge at 3:30 a.m. on the morning of July 1. He then returned his rental car and boarded a flight to Denver at 5:59 a.m., landing in Boston later that day. A week later, on July 7, Atta boarded a flight from Boston to Zurich?the first leg on his trip to Spain. He returned to the United States on July 19, 2001.

Much about Atta's movements is still unknown?and most likely will remain so. FBI officials believe, for example, that Atta flew to Las Vegas as part of a series of trips he took that summer to test security at U.S. airports in preparation for the September 11 attacks. But it is just a theory. The visit to Spain is believed to have been for a meeting with Ramzi bin al-Shibh, one of the planners of the September 11 attacks, who also was in Spain during the same time.

While all of Atta's movements cannot be accounted for, enough is known to make it "highly unlikely" that the September 11 ringleader could have flown off to Baghdad for a three-day work program with Iraqi intelligence, a FBI official told NEWSWEEK. For similar reasons, the bureau has long since discounted claims by Czech intelligence?and widely promoted by some Iraq hawks in the Bush administration?that Atta had flown to Prague to meet with an Iraqi intelligence agent around April 8, 2001.

FBI records show Atta and fellow hijacker Marwan Al-Shehhi checking out of the Diplomat Inn in Virginia Beach, Va., and writing a check for cash for $8,000 for a SunTrust account in that city on April 4, 2001. For the rest of that week, Atta's cell phone was used to make repeated calls to Florida. On April 11, Atta rented an apartment in Coral Springs, Fla. While acknowledging that a few days are unaccounted for, the FBI has found no evidence that Atta departed the country overseas during this period, an official said.

Mneimneh, the Iraqi document expert, says that there are other reasons to discount the handwritten memo touted by the Telegraph. The document includes another sensational second item: how Iraqi intelligence, helped by a "small team from the Al Qaeda organization," arranged for a shipment from Niger to reach Iraq by way of Libya and Syria. Although the shipment is unspecified, the reference to Niger was immediately suggestive of Bush administration assertions earlier this year that Iraq sought to import yellowcake uranium from that African nation?claims that also have been widely discredited as being based on other forged documents that apparently came from the Niger Embassy in Rome.

Mneimneh says the wording of the document makes him highly suspicious: Iraqi intelligence officials were notoriously conservative and rarely?if ever?put incriminating information in writing. The reference to the Iraqi intelligence working with a "small team from the Al Qaeda organization" is "too explicit," he says.

Ironically, even the Iraqi National Congress of Ahmed Chalabi, which has been vocal in claiming ties between Al Qaeda and Saddam's regime, was dismissive of the new Telegraph story. "The memo is clearly nonsense," an INC spokesman told NEWSWEEK.

Contacted by Newsweek, The Sunday Telegraph's Con Coughlin acknowledged that he could not prove the authenticity of the document. He said that while he got the memo about Mohammed Atta and Baghdad from a "senior" member of the Iraqi Governing Council who insisted it was "genuine," he and his newspaper had "no way of verifying it. It's our job as journalists to air these things and see what happens," he said.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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AR Heard about that several days ago and then heard no more. There is little guy comes on fox named Mouss----something or other that since beginning of Afgan has been right on the top on things that generally hit the main news several days later.
Another thing he said is they have found several missiles that were made in China whose range is way out of limited range UN allowed that all have empty cannisters in nose. The cannisters are alone are self incriminating but these cannisters have valves which afford chemicals to be mixed only in flight. He said most commonly agent that is so volitile it has to use this method is sarin gas. It will be interesting to what develops in this matter but only thing I can confirm is the chinese rockets and their range--nothing else.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Now this should make you feel safer:rolleyes:
The far left 9th District at it again.
From Reuters
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"In the other case, the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco ruled that the United States cannot imprison "enemy combatants" indefinitely at the U.S. Navy (news - web sites) base in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.


In a 2-1 decision, the court said that such indefinite imprisonment was inconsistent with American law and raised serious concerns under international law. It also said that the more than 600 detainees should have access to lawyers.


"Even in times of national emergency -- indeed, particularly in such times -- it is the obligation of the Judicial Branch to ensure the preservation of our constitutional values and to prevent the Executive Branch from running roughshod over the rights of citizens and aliens alike," the Ninth Circuit panel said. "

---and the ACLU chimed in

"This is a powerful and courageous decision," said Steven Shapiro, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites). "It makes clear that the war on terrorism does not suspend the rule of law."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yep Lets gripe about cost of war but pay lawyers to defend those in combat against us.
Bet all terrorists in future would really spill the beans when interrogated, with an attorney protecting them--and I am sure the uncover agents that fingered any terrorist could come forward to testify and blow cover as in case of the one we have here now linked to 911. No Sweat cause it will get throw out in Supreme Court like the rest of their absurb BS but what if the Supreme Court ever has a majority of liberals on bench.

-----and you think everyone would have been happy on capture of Saddam. A look at how the left media interpretation.

Peter Jennings
Media coverage of the capture has been as surreal as the Democrats? conspiracy conjectures. After watching jubilant Iraqis celebrating Saddam?s apprehension, ABC anchor Peter Jennings saw only sadness and morosely concluded, ?There?s not a good deal for Iraqis to be happy about at the moment.? Jennings ?informed? the American public that life for Iraqi citizens is ?very chaotic ? beset by violence ? [and] not as stable for them as it was when Saddam Hussein was in power.?


NBC?s Katie Couric (search) said Saddam?s capture was only ?symbolic.? She?d be proved hopelessly wrong less than 24 hours later, as the 1st Armored Division, acting on intelligence secured from Saddam?s capture, rounded up three former Iraqi generals who are suspected of supporting the terrorist resistance in Iraq.

---and Dean continues to be his worst enemy.
From 12-18-03 USA Today article.
"Dean's standing in a matchup with Bush plummeted. If the vote were today, the poll found, Bush would beat him 59%-37%, vs. 53%-43% in November. "

---and Geragos---This guy missed his calling as he would be perfect material for a TV wrestling announcer. His "Micheal and I will prove--- is quite amusing as if he'll let Jackson even get near the stand. I wish just once in these huffing and puffing interviews someone would have the balls to ask him, if he can't beat a shop lifting case why is he so confident in these high profile cases.
 
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djv

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DTB did you see where those missiles came from. China. Or is it Korea?
And that 9th distict ruling is way deeper then what is said here. And we should just follow our constitutional law or have congress change it. We want to act above how other do. Or we become just like them. We are better and should lead the way. If they are true combatants that is one thing. If there folks just rounded up with no charges or reason for doing so. Thats another. Even you would not like a knock on the door and they haul you away on a good tip. Months later there still investigating and you would just sit there. This can happen to anyone so we must use some thought on what were doing. For those that have good proof aginst them. Give then there day in court. And be done with it. Or call them prisoners of war and be done with them. But remember we have not declared war.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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It was China DJV but I still can't find confirmation on the nose cone cannisters. Report by the little guy I speak of said they were confirmed by Kay but I can't find anything on it from him yet---and rumor has it he may step down---wonder what that is all about?
On the issue of combatants being given attorneys.I can agree with you on the ruling of the court in New York on the U.S. resident which I did not allude to in initial gripe of those in
Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Under normal circumstances they should have enough time for trial but could be other issues on protecting who snitched on him which is 1st thing attorney will try to do.
Now the Guantanamo Bay in Cuba is utter stupidity and will never float. I can just imagine being our troops and capturing prisoners in combat knowing that our country will be defending them. I don't know which is the most absurb ,the idea of it, or having to explain the idea of it to the left.

I think your commrades on the left will be reeling on Libya's acknowledgement yesterday to dismantle all WMD's.Hmmm and along with Iran allowing inspectors now it is amazing this is done without shot being fired.I wonder why---could it be they don't like the consequences of those that don't? I remember someone not long ago that had same opportunity but thought we were bluffing like in the past.--by the way can you conect the dots on this timetable--
"A U.S. official said Libya approached the United States and Britain in mid-March and this led to visits to weapons sites in October and early December by U.S. and British teams. "

Quite a lot significant advances on the war on terror in last 2 years wouldn't you say? Afgan-Iraq-Libya-Iran-Saudi-Turkey
---and you will see N Korea next as the leverage is there since we quit sending them aid so they could use all their funds for weapons.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=6&u=/nm/20031220/ts_nm/korea_north_dc
I don't know which is more profound the advances made on terrorism in last 2 years or lack of in prior 8 years.

Now a few quotes on the tape from "alleged"* Al-Qaida number two Ayman al-Zawahri on Aljazeera network.

"Two years after Tora Bora... we continue to pursue the Americans everywhere," the voice said. "The Americans have become weaker in Iraq. Their soldiers are cowards because they have no faith in their leaders."

"America has been defeated (by) our fighters despite all its military might, its weaponry."

The Al-Qaida number two, who has repeatedly urged Americans to oppose the policies of President George Bush, told the American people: "How can we excuse you after all the warnings that we gave you. You reap what you sow."

Tape also made comment that Al-Qaida has coalition troops on the run.
Quite funny since they are the ones running and hiding in holes and caves.

*"alleged" I noted alleged in above as they they have not confirmed it to be Ayman al-Zawahri yet but have it narrowed down to either he or Dean. :)--just kidding but the similiarities between Aljazeera and liberal reporting are uncanny.
 
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Turfgrass

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The two rulings that were very important the other day were:

1. Jose Padilla, a/k/a Osama bin Lopez, an American citizen, must be released from military custody and afforded the Constitutional due process rights to which any American citizen is entitled.

2. Those detainees in Guantanamo must be given access to attorneys and the federal courts.

That second ruling came from the notorious 9th Circuit out there in California. I don't agree with it. Foreign combatants engaged in hostile activity against American forces aren't entitled to Constitutional due process protections. I suspect the Supreme Court will have a different view of this one.

Jose Padilla is another matter. Was he being trained in an Al Qaeda training camp? Probably so. Did he come back to this country to work on detonating a "dirty" nuclear device? Maybe he did. None of these facts erase the fact that Padilla is a U.S. citizen and he was taken into custody on American soil. Capture him while he's actually overseas carrying out an action against American interests and you may have a different situation. Our laws are capable of handling the situation. You arrest Padilla, then arraign him, try him, convict him ... and then execute him if the obsessive compulsive compassion crowd doesn't get in your way.

The very foundation of our country is the rule of law. If this foundation crumbles then the very structure of our nation is at risk. I know I've made this point before, but this is as good a time as any to repeat it. In our society there is only one entity that can use force to accomplish its goals, and that entity is government. If you want something you have to either talk someone into giving that thing to you, or you have to go out there and work to earn the funds necessary to purchase that item. If the government wants something it will use force to take it, or use force to acquire the funds necessary to buy it. The government's power to take extends to your life and your liberty. Your protection lies in the rule of law. Before the government can exercise its monopoly on the use of force it must follow explicit rules established in accordance with specific constitutional principles. These rules are there to protect the life, liberty and property of American citizens, not to protect government.

In the case of Jose Padilla these basic rules were being ignored. Padilla was not being afforded his constitutional right to an attorney, the right to face his accuser and his right to access to our courts. If the United States cannot make its case against Padilla without casting aside our basic constitutional protections than Padilla should go free.

To put it more bluntly ... a country that can seize an American citizen from the streets and lock him away without charges, without access to lawyers, and without access to our courts and basic due process is not a country that is worth defending.
 

ELVIS

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if this was an ordinary citizen i would definetely agree, but if there is proof that he trained in a terroist cell he should be tried for treason and executed. is there proof ?



ps. peter jennings is piece of $hat !
 
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