Enemy? Who?

[kosar]

Recent assessments by our military and our intelligence agencies, within the last couple of weeks, estimate that there are 1300 'foreign fighters' in Iraq. That includes the handful of Al-Qaeda and also every other mercenary coming from whatever country looking to kill Americans, Iraqis, make some money and have some adventure and/or to blow himself up.

So 1300 straggling crusaders with roadside bombs and RPG's against the 250,000 supposedly 'trained' Iraqi force acting in concert with our 140,000 incredibly trained troops.

So, a rough estimate of 400,000 troops against 1,300, if this is the war on terror as we are still being told as recently as today.

My question is to some on here who say this is a 'war'. Who the f*ck is our enemy?

Who is our enemy?

The Shia death squads who round up Iraqi policemen and torture and execute them by the dozens to hundreds at a time?

The Sunni who go into Sadr's ghetto and blow up 200 at a time?

The Shia, who in response, blow up another important Sunni shrine/mosque?

This same Sadr whose support is crucial for the elected Al-Maliki to stay in office?

This Al-Maliki who called off road blocks in Sadr land as we tried to find an American kidnapped troop (almost certainly by Sadr's men) and is as good as dead when we leave (10 days or 10 years) because this sort of 'society' will never accept a Prime Minister who was installed as a result of actions by America.

How about a top Shia cleric Al-Akaim, who visited the White House a few days ago.

He's a bitter enemy of Sadr, but extremely close with and supported extensively by Iran?

Is he an enemy? Friend? Huh?

So, in this 'war', could somebody please explain who the enemy is?

Doesn't a war, by definition, have to have an enemy for both sides?

No, not in this case, I guess. We are simply there, biding time, trying to duck, getting our young troops killed and maimed, simply waiting for the day that this goes from 'low-level' civil war to full-blown civil war.

 

[StevieD]

Our enemy is in the White House.

 

[djv]

What I hate to see over and over is our guys caught in middle 10 lost their lives today. I think they said in first 6 days of Dec its 21. If there was any government there that would stand up it would be nice. The guy we helped get in office is
nothing to write home about.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"That includes the handful of Al-Qaeda"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just whose fuzzy math are you quoting here.
Are you playing politics or can you look at # of Al-Qaeda killed there or read assertions from their leaders below on importance and still come to conclusion there are only "handful" there?

1st 2 quotes don't concern Iraq but do show who they are counting on--and many are doing their part not to let them down-- liberal media much more effective than their own outlets


Osama Bin Laden: America's "Combat Strategy Is Heavily Dependent On The Psychological Aspect Of War ? Which Hides The Cowardice And Lack Of Fighting Spirit Of The American Soldier." BIN LADEN: "It has been made clear during our defending and fighting against the American enemy that this enemy's combat strategy is heavily dependent on the psychological aspect of war due to its large and efficient media apparatus and of course its indiscriminate aerial bombing which hides the cowardice and lack of fighting spirit of the American soldier. ? Likewise, let me remind you of the defeat of the American forces in Beirut in 1982, soon after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, when the Lebanese resistance was personified by the truck laden with explosives that struck the main military base of the US Marines in Beirut, killing 242 soldiers ? towards Hell was their destination and what an evil destination that is." (Translation Of Purported Bin Laden Audio Message, Posted On Islamist Site, 2/14/03)

Bin Laden: "In Somalia ? The United States [Pulled] Out, Trailing Disappointment, Defeat, And Failure Behind It." BIN LADEN: "We found that out from our brothers who fought the Americans in Somalia. They did not see it as a power worthy of any mention. It was the big propaganda that the United State used to terrify people before fighting them. Our brothers, who were here in Afghanistan, also tried the Americans. God gave them and the mujahidin success in Somalia and the United States pull out, trailing disappointment, defeat, and failure behind it. It achieved nothing. It left quicker than people had imagined." (Full Text Of Interview With Al-Qaeda Leader Osama Bin Laden, 10/21/01)

Al-Qaeda--on Iraq


Bin Laden: "The Most Important And Serious Issue Today For The Whole World Is This Third World War ? Raging In [Iraq]." BIN LADEN: "I now address my speech to the whole of the Islamic nation: Listen and understand. The issue is big and the misfortune is momentous. The most important and serious issue today for the whole world is this Third World War, which the Crusader-Zionist coalition began against the Islamic nation. It is raging in the land of the two rivers. The world's millstone and pillar is in Baghdad, the capital of the caliphate." (Text Of Bin Laden's Audio Message To Muslims In Iraq, Posted On Jihadist Websites, 12/28/04)

Ayman al-Zawahiri: We Must "Establish An Islamic Authority ? Over As Much Territory As You Can To Spread Its Power In Iraq ? [And] Extend The Jihad Wave To The Secular Countries Neighboring Iraq." ZAWAHIRI: "So we must think for a long time about our next steps and how we want to attain it, and it is my humble opinion that the Jihad in Iraq requires several incremental goals: The first stage: Expel the Americans from Iraq. The second stage: Establish an Islamic authority or amirate, then develop it and support it until it achieves the level of a caliphate ? over as much territory as you can to spread its power in Iraq ? The third stage: Extend the jihad wave to the secular countries neighboring Iraq. The fourth stage: It may coincide with what came before: the clash with Israel, because Israel was established only to challenge any new Islamic entity." (Complete Text Of Al-Zawahiri Letter To Al-Zarqawi, 7/9/05, Available At: http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20051011_release.htm, Accessed 9/5/06)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060905-7.html

 

[gardenweasel]

Our enemy is in the White House.

osama saya,"thank you comrade........we couldn`t do it without you"....

 

[StevieD]

osama saya,"thank you comrade........we couldn`t do it without you"....

Why has your boy not caught Osama yet?

Even Bill O'Reilly admits the Invasion of Iraq was wrong.

And how is it that you are wrong on every call according to even Jim Baker yet you have the nerve to call me comrade?

 

[gardenweasel]

Why has your boy not caught Osama yet?

Even Bill O'Reilly admits the Invasion of Iraq was wrong.

And how is it that you are wrong on every call according to even Jim Baker yet you have the nerve to call me comrade?

didn`t he say the occupation was handled badly?......maybe i`m wrong,i don`t watch him all that often.....

comrade`s not so bad....now,if i`d said "comrade dogleash",that would be a whole `nother issue....:nono: ....

stevie-wevie...bubby.....all i`m saying is that the "our enemy is in the white house" comment is about as useful as a fart in the kitchen....

 

[StevieD]

didn`t he say the occupation was handled badly?......maybe i`m wrong,i don`t watch him all that often.....

comrade`s not so bad....now,if i`d said "comrade dogleash",that would be a whole `nother issue....:nono: ....

stevie-wevie...bubby.....all i`m saying is that the "our enemy is in the white house" comment is about as useful as a fart in the kitchen....

No weasel your supporting Bush is as useless as a fart in a kitchen.

He has put our soldiers in danger and squandered our resources. Not only that but he has continued to keep our soldiers in danger and continued to squander our resources after it has been shown that his course is not working. All this under the cover of guys like who who defend him.

Let us hope that your fart clears the kitchen and we get some new cooks in the mix because this thing is out of control and with guys like you fanning the flames it continues down the same course.

 

[gardenweasel]

No weasel your supporting Bush is as useless as a fart in a kitchen.

He has put our soldiers in danger and squandered our resources. Not only that but he has continued to keep our soldiers in danger and continued to squander our resources after it has been shown that his course is not working. All this under the cover of guys like who who defend him.

Let us hope that your fart clears the kitchen and we get some new cooks in the mix because this thing is out of control and with guys like you fanning the flames it continues down the same course.

frst of all,stevie, we have to decide what we want the outcome in iraq to be, then we could continue an intelligent conversation from there....

i'm in favor of a victorious outcome,iraq being able to defend itself from terror and sectarian violence.... meaning "we win, they lose"....

you, stevie, are in favor of___________?(i mean besides bush being impeached or assassinated)...


whatever,i`m still happy i could share this little "hate filled moment in time" with you,buddy........:sadwave:

 

[djv]

Not sure if we can stay there long enough for some on determined victory. Do we have a 100 years. Sad to say before Saddam it was a mess. It took brutal force to get it some what functional.
We helped him in that cause. There is no winning to do us when it's a civil war. The people them self have to decide they want peace. They can do that with out us. In fact they have to do it with out us. I guess we should stay long enough to rebuild what we blew to hell. That might even get a few more to like us. However they can use civilian contractors not our military to do it.

 

[StevieD]

Weasel,

Your want to stay until we win. So you want Iraq to be able to defend itself. The greatest fighting army in the world cannot stop the terrorist but you think that somehow Iraq will be able to defend itself from them? How?

Now, once Iraq falls into complete civil war and we get out there will be refugees. Iraqi's that we will have to bring into our country. How many of those refugees do you think will be trained death squaders? That we will be bringing onto our soil.

You better rethink this Weasel. Bush entered us into a war that we cannot win. Who is the enemy that you expect to surrender? Sadr? Bin Laden? Iran? Syria? What tribe will surrender so you can declare victory?:shrug:

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"Even Bill O'Reilly admits the Invasion of Iraq was wrong."
++++++++++++++++++++++++

BULLSHIT

Maybe you can provide some evidence on this one.
I didn't think so?

What is it with liberal blogs-media and liberals in general that if they can't find supporting facts they make em up??? This is 3rd glaring example today alone.

 

[StevieD]

"Even Bill O'Reilly admits the Invasion of Iraq was wrong."
++++++++++++++++++++++++

BULLSHIT

Maybe you can provide some evidence on this one.
I didn't think so?

What is it with liberal blogs-media and liberals in general that if they can't find supporting facts they make em up??? This is 3rd glaring example today alone.

he said it last night while talking to Geraldo. I will look for proof when I have time.
Nice try to try to steer the direction away from who the enemy is.

 

[kosar]

These don't seem like words from somebody who is satisfied with the invasion.



"From the February 20 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:

O'REILLY: Somewhat of a disturbing report out of Iraq, and it's more important than it first appears. The governor of -- or the mayor of Karbala, which is a town in the south part of Iraq, Shiite-controlled, has banned any further government dealings with the American military in his province, saying that they're not behaving well.

Now, it's a small little thing, but I picked up on it, because here is the essential problem in Iraq. There are so many nuts in the country -- so many crazies -- that we can't control them. And I don't -- we're never gonna be able to control them. So the only solution to this is to hand over everything to the Iraqis as fast as humanly possible. Because we just can't control these crazy people. This is all over the place. And that was the big mistake about America: They didn't -- it was the crazy-people underestimation. We did not know how to deal with them -- still don't. But they're just all over the place."

 

[kosar]

"That includes the handful of Al-Qaeda"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Just whose fuzzy math are you quoting here.

Ummm, i'm quoting our governments 'fuzzy math.'

They estimate 1300 foreign fighters are in Iraq, so I just used common sense from there. That being that they are not all Al-Qaeda and quite likely it's only a small percentage. Regardless, Al-Qaeda or not, those people are there to kill Americans and to incite violence.

There are approximately 1300 of them. Is this the enemy that we are fighting with 400,000 combined troops? Is that what you're saying?

Are we fighting Sadrs 10,000 man militia? Clearly not, as we just leave them alone in deference to Al-Maliki, the 'elected' president who is bought and sold by the Shia militias.

 

[kosar]

Wayne,

Look around that stadium that you're in where there used to be 80,000 'conservatives' wildly cheering the invasion. Nobody is left, bro. Oh, wait, I see some movement up there in the club section. Get out your binoculars!

Yep, it's Gardenweasel, red-faced and drooling, stomping around up there with his backpack full of survival gear!


A No-Spin Analysis of the Iraq Study Group Report
Thursday, December 07, 2006

By Bill O'Reilly

The first line of the report says that the situation in Iraq is grave and getting worse. That is true. The top recommendation is that American forces pull out of chaotic districts and concentrate on training and supporting the Iraqi military, thereby pressuring the Iraqi government to control the violence, rather than relying on Americans to do it.

Now that sounds good on paper, and will probably happen to some extent, but success is in doubt. That's because many Iraqis have no allegiance to the government in Baghdad. They are essentially home boys. They support their local imams and leaders. It's the same old story of tribalism over unification.

Can the USA overcome that problem? Well, after nearly four years in Iraq, the answer looks to be no. But it is worth one more shot. And putting Iraq on notice that you either fight for freedom now we're gone is the most worthy message from the Study Group.

The report also says the USA should talk with Iran and Syria. Well, that's fine, but good luck. The French press quotes Iranian leader Ahmadinejad today as saying, "Western leaders must follow the path of god or vanish from the face of the earth." Ahmadinejad is also bragging he'll have nukes by March.

Again, we should chat with the Iranians, but expecting much from these fanatics is a stretch.

There are two primary reasons the Iraq campaign has failed. The USA misjudged the Iraqi people. And Iran has undermined all attempts at securing liberty by arming and inciting the Shiia militias.

Iran is doing this in order to dominate Iraq when the USA leaves. And once that happens, the rest of the Gulf will become destabilized, as will your lights and gas tank if Iran gets control of the region. What a mess.

The Iraq Study Group did a good job. The folks on it are smart and honest. And the president would be wise to listen. But at this point, if the Iraqis want to kill each other, we should let them. Our main goal should be preventing Iran from securing a foothold in Iraq and getting our troops into more secure positions.

By the way, the name of the Iraq Study Group should really be the "Iran Study Group."

And that's the Memo.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I am still looking where Oreilly said he did not agree with invasion. He has always questioned handling in aftermath of occupation--of course hindsight is always 20/20--but if he even hinted about change of opinion on invasion the liberal blogs would be on him in a heart beat.

---and on your " Nobody is left, bro" Matt

I would respectfully disagree--would depend on who your asking--would venture a guess most our troops look at it differently--as the Kurds and Shites and and about 40% of our population--if you remember less than 40% agreed with U.S. entering world war 2 prior to Japan's invasion.

 

[smurphy]

if you remember less than 40% agreed with U.S. entering world war 2 prior to Japan's invasion.

I can't believe you went to that one AGAIN. Why?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Oh you didn't like that one--I'll have to archive it

I'm trying to be bi-partisan --didn't you see quotes above from UBL and others cheering Pelosi-Murtha-Clintons ect stances on foreign policy

 

[smurphy]

I don't like it because it makes no sense ....just like almost all WW2 comparisons. But we've been over that too many times to count. I can't stop you from that logic, even though I don't think you believe your own words on that sort of thing. I think you use an example like that to win an argument, but you don't actually believe it. ...I mean how could anyone as smart as you actually believe such unrelated things could have any relevance?

Perhaps you need a refresher - We only declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbor, not on Germany or Italy. Germany actually declared war on us first - immediately after we declared war on Japan. ...SO - would we necessarily have even sent massive troops into Europe if Germany didn't first throw down the gauntlet? That's open for debate I suppose.

Also - we declared ware on JAPAN, not on China or Russia or Korea or Thailand, or some other nation that happened to be in the region with similar religous beliefs. We declared war on the exact people who attacked. There was complete logic in that - as with our invasion of Afghanistan.

So where is the relevance with Iraq? Where? What could possibly we drawn up to make anything about this Iraq thing at all similar with the way we entered WW2 and the popularity of WW2?