forget london...let`s talk gitmo....

[gardenweasel]

the monsters are among us....they target innocents......the n.y. times could care less....

maybe now,the border situation will get some attention....

this is THE CIVILIZED WORLD`S PROBLEM....not the u.s` and britain`s...france`s...the netherland`s....all of europe...the world...even the egyptian ambassador was kidnapped..

it`s a plague...they`re modern day monsters....inhuman..

now,reports of numerous cells possibly in canada....

these bastards have to be hunted down....their aim is to kill women and children...

geneva convention?......are you kidding....

countries that harbor or help them should be targeted for the most severe sanctions....

extreme measures need to be put into place...

my guess is that many will respond with weak knee`d recriminations about iraq....or whatever excuse they can rationalize for this kind of atrocity...

disband the patriot act?....morons...

i just watched the press conference at the g-8 summit....

if i could have,i would have liked to smash the smug faces of chirac and putin....

trying to provide countries that aid and abet these animals with the technology to build nuclear weapons....

moral relativism?...turn on your t.v....

they hit us on 9/11....they hit spain...thay hit bali....

they wany us out of iraq and afghanistan....

of course,that wasn`t rationale for 9/11....

they want to kill those that stand in the way of their fanatical jihad....

i just wrote a decent sized check to the armed forces relief trust....dogball`s idea of trying to help in anyway possible was right on point...


this should strengthen our resolve....lack of worlsd cohesion is why these guys can succeed..

and,of course...it may take a day or two...but expect the "it`s our fault" crew to try rationalize this crap....

moveon .org....chomsky...

the world needs to wake the hell up....

 

[Nosigar]

But, Iraq has noting to do with 9/11.
Prove it, prove it, prove it, prove it.!!!!!!

But London has nothing to do with 9/11

But Spain has nothing to do with 9/11

Hell, terrorism has nothing to do with 9/11.

It's America's fault, ask Eddie. or Christo or Mohamed.

Bush lied, kids died!!!!

Gitmo is a disgrace!!!! Our military is like Nazi's or Pol Pot or Stalin.

We should exit all wars and stick our head up our ass!

The borders are fine. It's just you bigoted extreme right-wingers wanting to keep out he Brown-Man and infringe upon his rights as an illegal-American.


I know, I know, you're doing it for the overall good of mankind (people-kind??) :jerkit:

 

[fletcher]

we were hit before 9/11 they tried to take down the towers before with the truck bomb remember??

and now turning off new because i am sick of hearing fox and msndc saying at this time we don't know if this was a attack against Gb because of their help in the middle east with us, bullshit everyone knows it was. I say pull out all troops was behind it at first but let everyone pull out and let mid east fight it out like they will till the end of time and let Iraq try and rebuild with out help and aid of other countries and put our men and women on our borders and if someone screws up and is out of line cut any and all aid off to that country hell we have enough people in our own country who needs aid anyway.

Sick of it all sorry GB for the attack you got today from a bunch of slime and sorry for those and their families who lost their lives over there today who are not part of the front line war, this is why i said i am sick and have been sick of both parties an wish we could have a real middle class thinking non big business far right or far left running any office just a solid independent class, you all know i hate feds for the most part anyway. and have for a long time abuse of power from both sides and shit on middle class and lower then middle class all the time.

Done with this because i am getting pissed off and to nice of a day to get pissed but it will never end IMO so leave the ruble and every country go home and let dust monkeys put it all back together and let middle east fight each other till the end of time.

sad to say that but this is the point i am at who is next some place down under? Canada? Germany? we all need to leave and cut off all aid , food and money. Let the fat cat oil kings fix the middle east if they want which they don't.

and wake up feds keep jobs in us quit out sourcing for cheap labor and plants here quit and groves in the south and cal and farms in mid west hiring cheap undocumented labor.

 

[shamrock]

Lots of what you say makes sense Eric. Bush 49 should have stayed out of Iraq in the first place. Saddam invading Kuwait was complete bs.

We got involved because the Saudi Royals were scared shit Saddam was going straight through Kuwait into the Saudi peninsula, for oil and Mecca and Medina, the Saudi Royals called and Bush hit his ****ing knees only to fast to fight their battle for them.

We should have let obl defend Saudi Arabian like he was begging to. What possibly could have been better, Saddam and his evil scum sand shitters against obl and his jhiad loving assholes. What could have possibly been better? Bush just couldn't keep his hands out of the Saudi problems.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I respectfully disagree Shamrock--as noted before they tried to take down trade towers before when were doing nothing and 911 was years in the planning or a least before GW'S assualt on islam fanatics. The hate the free world and will stop at nothing as shown every where they exist on earth.

Our choices We can be docile and look the the other way or take it to them on "their" turf. Would make little diff to me whether we did in in Iraq-Iran-Syria--as long as we did it--Just maybe the muslim world will get as sick as we are at killing of their women and children by the fanatics and their cause will be seen for what it is in their world--if not then so be it and let their familys get slaughtered there instead of ours here.

 

[Marco]

Count me in with fletcher.....

Some say "take the fight to them in the middle east" as if all the terrorists are going to just flock to the "infidels" and terrorism will just go away then because all of them are supposedly dead...

I guess the evil dudes in London didn't hear the party was in Iraq, they just decided to go about thier agenda regardless how many we killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.....

There is no strategy being employed in Iraq other than driving around the hummer waiting for it to blow up, or walking around waiting for a sniper to put one in your back....you guys that think we can invade the middle east and kill all the bad guys and install democracy haven't been paying attention to the middle east or its religious quirks or idiosyncracies that have absolutely dominated the area for centuries......

"Taking the fight to them" means you have a fulltime job for about a thousand years to come, all at $177 million dollars a day.....all the while taking casualties in a non-stop ritual that plays out the same everyday.....it's went on between Israel and Palestine for decades, if you want a dose of reality not too far from Iraq.....

We have to clamp down our own borders, and even then a reasonable person can expect a few of them to get through and create a scene like London or Spain......use our military to guard our own borders, and let the Arabs fight amongst themselves as they will whenever we are savvy enough to pull out of Iraq to let the inevitable civil war begin. We don't owe the Iraqis a government just because some a$$hole dictator took control of the country, oppressing the people and looting the treasury, and then decided to invade Kuwait.

Use our military to guard our borders, let the Arabs fight as they so love to do, and if anything else figure out some sort of ultimatum where if some terrorist strike happens inside the USA the whole arab world will pay dearly.

 

[StevieD]

We should be spending money and man power defending our borders and our rails and our ports. I don't feel any safer because Saddam is in jail. I ride the rails every day and today I see increased security. Well, that's good but if we can't afford that everyday because all the money is being spent trying to rebuild Iraq.

 

[gardenweasel]

first off....shammy...welcome back....very happy to see you back...


the terrorist`s web message said they want britain out of iraq...and afghanistan..everyone forgets afghanistan....terrorist breeding ground...that`s part of the deal,too...lets not ignore it...

after 9/11,i doubt that even the most ardent,america hating liberal,would say that afghanistan wasn`t necessary...


hell,even bill clinton torched a tent or two...that scared `em....


but,that`s not it....those are symptoms...not the disease...

why are they doing what they do?.....it`s not just iraq...even though they know if the iraqis can gain some semblance of self determination,it would be a crucial blow to their cause.....as it would embolden them for us to desert iraq...as some left wingers would suggest...

what about the cole?....the achille lauro?...khobar towers?....and on and on...

now declaring egypt as their enemy...murdering their ambassador...

its about veils....it`s about christanity...buddhism....hinduism...

around the world islamic militants are engaging in a holy war against the infidels - from coptic christians in egypt and the dinkas in the sudan, to hindus in kashmir, bahais in iran, catholics in the southern philippines and christians in east timor.....

they are murdering journalists in the netherlands...

it`s about progress...they`re in danger of being left behind...on the trash heap of history...as islam and moderate muslims move forward into the 21st century.....

aside from the periodic massacres and displacements dating back to mohammed's time, radical islam introduced the splendid ideas that non-muslims living under radical islamic rule:

1) must never build buildings taller than buildings owned by muslims.

2) must always step aside or yield whenever a muslim approached....in nigeria,a christian woman was attacked after she had the balls to cross the street in front of a group of muslim men who had gathered near a mosque.... what followed was three days of killing and burning churches....

3) may not testify against a muslim in court.... this basically allowed muslims to do anything they wanted to non-muslims with impunity.....

4) would suffer death for virtually any crime, real or perceived, committed against a muslim.....

5) must pay the dhimmi, or religious tax, for being a non-muslim.....

radical islam...not muslims..

.this is just a smidgeon..and so on and so forth, ad nauseum. it`s worse than jim crow...

it`s about modernity...and their inability to cope...to adapt....

they are trying to turn back the clock...

the terrorists are the problem....not america...not bush....

if only the media(in our country and europe)...europe...the world...would ban together to form a united front to fight terror....

but,that won`t happen...

if it had,i don`t think iraq would have happened...

one good thing...i doubt that the british politicians will allow these radical muslim sects to operate with impunity in london after this one..

still,in a generation,parts of europe will be majority muslim...

again,i go back to our own media.....ny times calling al zarqawi a "jordanian fighter".....

liberal logic..

the founding fathers were terrorists...

al zarqawi`s a "fighter"...albeit,one that targets innocents....


i can`t wait to check the ny times,cnn,the bbc and other self hating news entities tomorrow for some skewed rationale on what happened today...

it should be interesting..pathetic,but interesting

 

[Pujo21]

I can't wait for The Olympic Swimming Champion Senator from Massachusettes to comment.

He's got balls that say Brunswick on them. He calls Guantanamo embarrassing.

July 18th 1969.

He left her to drown and went and slept it off. Fat Teddy is a nice guy.

Nice guy , isn't he? And he keeps getting re-elected.. are they not phucking sick in Massachusettes?

How the phuck does he keep getting re-elected? Really ? What kind of individual actually goes into a voting booth and pulls the Kennedy Lever ??
:sadwave:

 

[shamrock]

you are 100% on target garden, absolutely everything you say above. But I still say we should have let Saudi s fight their own battle against Saddam. It would have been fantastic, like Iran against Iraq, millions and millions of fanatic Muslims killing each other every week. Almost like a Tyson Gollatta fight if you will, 2 complete asshole s in a fight to the death. Saddam against obl could have been a beautiful thing, and brought radical Moslem population to its knees.

But I completely agreed with your above statements.

Good to see you also
shamrock

 

[Marco]

"the founding fathers were terrorists"

All a matter of ones viewpoint....to the King and England: terrorists

To the colonists who wanted independence and freedom: heroes

Kinda like when the Afghans were fighting the Russians they were called "freedom fighters", but when they reloaded and put Americans in the sights they're now called "insurgents".....

All a matter of perspective......

Even the sports fans who hate the dynasties and cheer when the New York Yankees go down have thier moments when even they know the Yankees are going to crush someone and decide to make some fast cash even if it means betting against thier heart....funny how the same guy who curses the NYY for winning ten in a row suddenly smiles when the streak reaches 11......suddenly those a-holes turn into pretty good guys, for at least one night......

 

[shamrock]

Marco-interesting perspective

and pujo-I'm willing to bet the Kennedy s have paid more a price to this country, than you ever will. Maybe times have changed, and there's has gone, but they paid their price, and did quite a bit for the country.

 

[gardenweasel]

marco..perspective?....

.there`s a small matter of the literal,specific targeting of civilian populations...women and children....

the chopping off of heads of innocents....civilians.....

maybe "terrorists" is the wrong word to argue over....IF you can apply it to the founding fathers...

what would be the word for "mass murder of innocent civilians by shadowy radical,un-uniformed maniacs" be?.....

a matter of perspective...and certainly, degree...


by any civilized person`s definition,they are monsters...

by applying the word "terrorists" to the founding fathers and the radical fundamentalists,you are implying some sort of moral relativism....

and that`s ridiculous...

 

[gardenweasel]

and here`s the week`s absurdity(beside some radical muslims now stating that this attack may have been staged by the u.s.....or britain itself....to turn sentiment against muslims.....sound like the comments about isreal and the jews during 9/11?....total denial...and irrationality)...

""Hamas condemns London Bombings
Posted by: McQ on Friday, July 08, 2005

(from aljazeera)....

The Palestinian Islamist resistance group Hamas condemned the London bombings.

"Targeting civilians in their transport means and lives is denounced and rejected," Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy chief of the group's political bureau, said....

The Hamas record?
In February and March 1996, Hamas carried out several bus bombings, killing nearly 60 Israelis. It was also blamed for attacks in 1997 in Jerusalem which killed 15 people, and brought the peace process grinding to a halt.....

Aljazeera needs to ask a followup question:

Does this mean that Hamas now repudiates such tactics as it pertains to Israel? """

what kind of mentality is at work here?...

the brits killed their own citizens?...jews were responsible for 9/11?....

hamas condemns"Targeting civilians in their transport means "....

this all stops if we get out of iraq?....close down gitmo?...let them go?

keep dreaming..

 

[kosar]

You seem awfully frantic, GW. Despite all of your rants, I can never quite figure out what you would do about the terrorists if you were the president. You sit on the fence about Iraq, but basically support it more than speak against it, because, I guess in your mind, we need to do something to someone. The problem with that is that 'doing something' to the wrong country puts us in an awful spot.

This crap that the admin is putting out about 'we have them all in one spot, so it's easier,' as if that was the plan all along is yet more bullshit. For one, it's just another in a long line of discredited justifications for the invasion. Two, it's not even true to begin with that all the terrorists are in Iraq, or even a fraction of them.

You seem perpetually frustrated about the media, who is simply reporting events of this misguided war, yet you never speak out about what the real problem is. The war itself. It just seems strange.

Just because somebody is against the war doesn't mean that they don't take fighting terrorism seriously. One thing has absolutely nothing to do with another because the war in Iraq has nothing to do with fighting terrorism.

lmao- As I type this, I have fox news on and they(Shepard Smith and guest) are saying that because less than 50 people died in London, we should consider this attack as unsuccessful. And now the guest just said this goes to show how limited their capabilities have become. Maybe they should poll the people in Bali, Madrid, London, etc.. and ask about their 'capabilities.' What a load of crap.

 

[Pujo21]

Oh really Shamrock,

The Kennedy's did quite a bit for the country. Okay we'll call them The Salt of the Earth. ! LOL

Anyway Shamrock , I was talking about the esteemed senator from the state of Massacusettes.

" WHEN I CAME BACK , THE CAR AND MARY JO WERE GONE " :scared

 

[Pujo21]

[/B]FAT TEDDY KENNEDY,the son of a corrupt rum runner

has nothing better to say these days when a country is at war with terrorists. as many mistakes as Mr. Bush has made, thank goodness that other imbecile from The State of Massachusettes didn't get elected !!!

The democrats are in bad shape when they have FAT TEDDY as their spokesperson. :mj07:

 

[ferdville]

The Kennedys have a tangled legacy to be sure. For all the good that Bobby and Jack did (or not as some would say), Teddy is a disgrace. He is as hypocritical as any person that has ever lived. He should have gone away after his little "episode" and never shown his fact to the world again. Now he sits on his high chair pontificating about morality. He stinks to high heaven and the fact that he is a Kennedy only enabled him to literally get away with murder. You or I would still be rotting in jail.

 

[kosar]

The Kennedys have a tangled legacy to be sure. For all the good that Bobby and Jack did (or not as some would say), Teddy is a disgrace. He is as hypocritical as any person that has ever lived. He should have gone away after his little "episode" and never shown his fact to the world again. Now he sits on his high chair pontificating about morality. He stinks to high heaven and the fact that he is a Kennedy only enabled him to literally get away with murder. You or I would still be rotting in jail.

I agree. He's an embarassment.

 

[gardenweasel]

kosar...you are either deaf,dumb or blind...or all of the above...

what i espouse is this...in case you`ve neglected reading my posts...

iraq WAS a terrorist rest stop...safe haven...training ground....hospital.....many very bad terrorists were harbored there....and saddam was the worst... by far the worst actor in the middle east....the biggest threat to stability and israel in the region.......by a long shot..and he may well have had wmd`s...they weren`t found....doesn`t mean they weren`t hidden or moved...

and the 9/11 commission said they didn`t find evidence that saddam actively worked with al qaeda on 9/11.....not that they weren`t a terrorist haven....hell,jimmy carter was the one that put iraq on the terror sponsor watch list...

the 3 abu`s spent years there...

i`ve been through all this...because you can`t grasp the concept,doesn`t mean i`m repeating it 10 times...

i respond to guys like you because you are myopic...regarding bush and this administration...btw,are you from massachusetts?...

you are so ideologically biased,that you have no sense of objectivity on anything the administartion does...

when i see total irrationality,i respond...because guys like you enjoy skewing the facts...

bush has his faults...the war is a debatable issue...that`s fair...the border`s a mess..i agree...stem cell research...i disagree with bush...

i don`t love bush...

but,total disregard of everything an administartion does because your politics mean more to you than your own the country`s success and well being....

well,that speaks for itself...

i explained my thoughts on terrorism...the causes...why,regardless of iraq(your fixation),they won`t stop what they`re doing....and that this all started many years prior to iraq.....and afghanistan....that`s part of this,,,,should we ignore their obvious terrorist camps and havens in afghanistan?...because they also want us out of afghanistan...


i explain and debate issues....you tear down bush and the administartion...ad nauseum...

you,like most democratic politicians,and the liberal mainstream media,have no plan...you just say "close down gitmo"...or,"leave iraq to the terrorists"....

you know that that is counterproductive...will hurt the country....but,that`s secondary to your political agenda...and that`s silly...and pathetic...

i wasn`t sure about iraq...still not sure...but,i understand why it happened..


the idea ...NOW...is to try and get to a point where the iraqi gov`t can defend itself....

yes...it`s tough..it`s brutal.....it`s costly...but cutting and running will be more costly...much more...

you moan...you cry...you criticize..."gore was cheated!!!"....i think this is largely responsible for your hysteria...that`s my opinion...

the mainstream media galls me...because they seem to enjoy feeding the radical islamists with material that incites them...and encourages them...

the gitmo stuff was just plain overkill...counterproductive...

as an american that upsets me...

when our own media undermines their own country...their own military...to ridiculous extremes...

yes..it upsets me...

whether it`s bush in the white house...or kerry.....(not gore...lol)...

and no..there is no moral relativism between the u.s. and al qaeda.....a country that has freed more people in this world than any other in history...

now...my response is here for everyone to read....it`s not necessary to "quote" everything that i said...

be a big boy and respond without gumming up the thread by repeating my entire post in quotes ...creating another double post.....

i must like you...all this....again.....for your edification?...

enjoy...