franschilla (dont care how its spelled) Knight's bag man

[pt1gard]

sickening to hear a coach say in the next month 100 other coaches will do the same [cowardly] thing Knight did....

im sorry, ive coached for 30 years and never even thought of hitting a kid, nor seen any HS coach or college coach clock/choke a kid in the face like ive seen Knight do twice now, and that's not counting kicking his son ... im sorry, espn has never shown any other coach slapping a kid in the face/chin before and they wont either, unless of course its Bobby ....

why was everyone afraid to query Knight about in press conference? i heard he ran off after one question, but damn, "ask the question" you shaking media ...

 

[gman2]

what fraschilla said was, of course, hyperbole. but you get the point. its another case of the media just waiting for knight to do something so they can make a big deal out of it. what knight did is fairly common. hell, i played for a coach that was the same way. and have plenty of amazing stories from some buddies who have played for some of the sternest disciplinarians around. is it that much different from a football coach who grabs a player by the facemask and sternly lectures him after a dumb personal foul penalty? has knight gone over the top a handful of times in 30 years? of course. but this kind of stuff is really nitpicking, especially when it leads off sportscenter. just goes to show espn is trying to create a controversy thats not really there.

 

[gman2]

im not saying that knight is right for doing it during actual game time and during a televised game. hes only asking for trouble and unnecessary and negative attention when he did that. but i do agree with fraschilla that other coaches, plenty of them, do it. but theyre just smart enough to do it during closed practices when, at most, print journalists are around. not when an entire country is watching.

 

[NBA_Kid]

I heard what Franschilla said also......



This Knight guy has too go......That was Bullshit :nono:

 

[RollTide72]

Give it up people. Bob Knight isn't going anywhere for several more years. He is weeks away from breaking Dean Smith's all time victory record for Division 1 coaches. You either love him or hate him; there is no middle ground. I'm of the opinion that the good far outweighs the bad. Nobody should be surprised at his actions. Knight has been Knight for over 30 years now.

 

[Sun Tzu]

More evidence of the pussification of America.

He didnt do anything wrong. Every kid at Tech and their parents know exactly what they are getting. The guys who get through their 4 years would go to the grave for the man. That speaks volumes.

Screw the touhy feely guys...if they dont like it go play somewhere where you get hugged every day...if the hug doesnt offend you of course.

 

[Sun Tzu]

im not saying that knight is right for doing it during actual game time and during a televised game. hes only asking for trouble and unnecessary and negative attention when he did that. but i do agree with fraschilla that other coaches, plenty of them, do it. but theyre just smart enough to do it during closed practices when, at most, print journalists are around. not when an entire country is watching.

Exactly. Ask some of the players heralded Coach K has run off.....ask some of those former UCLA players how much fun they had under John Wooden's assistants.....

 

[mcity]

what a joke.....knight gets a pass from some media and fans just because he is knight? Isn't it funny how Knight wants his players to be held accountable for their actions and Knight wants his players to be good people who do the right things in life but he obviously can't practice his own preachings. I saw the tape and it was a pretty hard shot to the chin.....hard enough that the kid was shown on the bench a short time later trying to "shake off" the effects of it. I understand that the kid dropped his head and lost eye contact with Knight once Knight started ripping into him and that Knight wanted his eye contact.....but instead of knocking the kid in the chin, how about Knight saying to the kid, "look at me goddamn it when I'm talking to you or I'll run your ass of tomorrow" or something to that affect? You can intimidate (which is what Knight bases his whole career on) without laying your hands on a kid. This is nothing more than another example of this bully who can't control his anger....if this was another coach....any coach.....I can guarantee you a lot more people would be looking at this in a different light but to some just because it is ol' bobby boy he gets a pass and they want to brush it under the rug. I played HS b-ball in Indiana for a real SOB and then D-2 b-ball for another guy who could rattle the rafters but neither ever put a hand on a guy physically so that argument doesn't wash with me......my dream is to one day see bobby pull this act on a kid who just says phuck it enough is enough.....the closest I saw to doing it was mike lewis for Indiana one time....Knight grabbed him during a TO and Mike pulled away violently and started talking chit.....and knight didn't say another word to him during the TO.....like the bully was scared and shocked someone stood up to him. The act is old and so is Knight....if Texas Tech had any balls, they would suspend this bully for 5 games and then declare to him what IU did, a zero tolerance for this crap....but I'm sure they won't because remember, this is just the way Knight is.

 

[Coach Woody]

I coach and think that Bobby Knight is a great coach...what he stands for and how his players are RESPECTFUL and that is a huge word RESPECT... show many the kind of guy he really is......Has he screwed up? Many of times he has done things too far but overall what he stands for and his kids graduate....means more then some stupid espn, media, crap.....................

 

[Heyward]

The kid says it was no big deal and Knight was trying to get him to stop feeling bad about making a mistake and keep his head up. The kid's parents were sitting right behind the bench and have no problem with it. I think that should be the end of it right there.

 

[Box and one]

Here we go again....1st of all Franschilla is the biggest jerk both as a coach and an announcer.Please lets not forget he was fired from St Johns and new mexico.But his Johnnies firing was classic.After a loss to a team,in the lockeroom he pulled his pants and underwear down...grabbed his nuts..and told his team...".you guys have no Balls". That was the final incident since the Johnnies are a fine cathloic institution.So for him saying that 100 coaches will do that is insulting.
We can discuss bobby Knight all day.been there done that.Both sides have valid arguments...but...he has a past.He has been caught speeding in the past.On his latest ticket he was caught again by radar... he has been cited numerous times on radar and I'm sure a few w/o.AM bought him a new car..knowing about his tickets and records.Players go to AM knowing his record..but that still doesn't give him the right to speed.It is 2006...Not that any year makes a difference..but with the new 'save" laws,no child left behind,hiipa,privacey acts...etc..you can't touch anyone..wake up..Knight is the most down to earth generous coach when he's off the beaten path.what he did to one of my best friends when he retired from coaching was unreal. No press,just honoring someone he knew who coached HS basketball for 30 yrs.There's apart of Knight thats no one see's.Giving,loving,etc.I had the pleasure at that retirement dinner to give out the award...Over 400 people were crying..thats the Knight we don't see..
But it comes back to ...he got another ticket...its love and hate...and he's such a great teacher of the game.. But he's going over the speed limit again....

 

[mcity]

he is a great coach no doubt...and he does a lot for schools and education.....he gave so much $$$ to IU for various educational things it isn't even funny....but that isn't what this is about.....where do you draw the line? Is it ok for him to act this way because he is generous in other avenues? Is it ok to grab a player because he is a college kid......what about a coach grabbing a HS kid.....or a coach grabbing a middle school kid.....where is the line drawn? I was raised to think and act like a man.....giving respect where it is due and taking it when you aren't given it back. These kids in college are young MEN....when another man puts his hands on you, that is a lack of respect on his part and must be dealt with in one form or another in my book....either by telling the guy "do it again and we'll have a problem" or by actually putting your hands back on him.....you can't cut it both ways.....if you want it, you have to give it. Not whining about getting hit in the chin or headbutted (sherron wilkerson @ IU) or kicked in the leg (his own son @ IU) or choked (neil reed @ IU) isn't the pussification of kids....just the opposite....not sticking up for yourself is the pussification of kids....he wants to yell and scream....go for it (like I said, I played for two screamers and I didn't mind the tough love).....threaten to run the kids til they puke....go for it.......dealing with a problem or perceived problem by putting your hands on someone is a joke until they cause you no other choice.....I don't think I saw this kid give Bobby no other choice. And as far as this kid saying bobby was trying to lift his spirits for making a mistake....:mj07: give me a break....if you actually believe that you probably really think OJ is looking for the killer of his ex and ron goldman. What else is the kid going to say? His parents going to say? His standing on the team....with this bully.....his scholarship depends on his toeing the company line. Great coach.....great person at times....but once again caught red handed doing something flat out wrong.

 

[pt1gard]

sun and gman2,


its cool you guys are peas in a pod these days but you have never coached nor understand the difference of being a hard ass, like i am, while being able to nurture players w/o physically intimdating them...

what Knight did isnt about 'pussification' nor being all right b/c other coaches do this ... where exactly are other coaches plugging kids in the chops--Ive been in gyms for 30 years and never seen it ... its wrong period ... where does the line get drawn on physical contact, is it ok to slap a woman when she doesnt act right? you guys really amuse me ... Ive been around some great men and coaches and they all think what Knight does is deplorable, but i guess certain segments "like it" since they condone it ...

mcity and box, excellent posts, I agree with all you said 100% ... mcity you were in my head about everything; esp. knight needs to be punked once, and when you wrote about a kid standing up to him he slinked like all cowards do

take care
gregg

 

[cou29]

Athletic director, player, and parents all say that Knight did nothing wrong.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;...cB?slug=ap-texastech-knight&prov=ap&type=lgns

 

[pt1gard]

"I'm sure there were some cases where I have been wrong, but (Monday night) wasn't one of them," Knight said. "I was trying to help a kid, and I think I did."

Prince told the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal after Monday's game that what happened with the coach "was nothing."

"He was trying to teach me and I had my head down, so he raised my chin up," said Prince, who was seen moving his jaw around as he sat on the bench after the confrontation. "He was telling me to go out there and don't be afraid to make mistakes. He said I was being too hard on myself."


Patton going into hospitals and rousting combat fatigue troops was cool, I guess ...

not that its the same, but of course the kid is gonna spin it that way, his only alternative is quitting ... MCity already addressed this 3 card monte

 

[gman2]

ptgard:

i dont need to coach to know that ive experienced similar stuff first hand as a player and have also heard stuff that was downright crazy from buddies who have played at the highest levels of collegiate basketball -- acc and big ten levels. stuff that makes for great, and sometimes funny, conversation years after but at the time makes you realize how ultracompetitive so many coaches are off camera. like i said, the problem with knight is that he isnt smart enough to have a better "public image". he is asking for a headache when he does that in front of a national tv audience. if you think im defending the neil reid incident or anything like that, no way. but what happened yesterday was minor. just like there are a hundred different ways of coaching the x's and o's of basketball, there are many different ways to coach the other stuff as well. a lot of people think bob huggins is an asshole. well kenyon martin didnt even want to be recognized as a cincy alum nor go back to the university after huggins was canned. fortson talks about how much of a role huggins played in his life and how he turned him into a man. so obviously, there are players out there who appreciate the tough-love style. all in all, im not a huge knight fan. i think he does try to be a bully with the media and takes it too far sometimes. and he definitely seems to almost make a concerted effort to 'toe the line' without crossing it. but to say think that he's the only one who coaches that way, just because you dont think its right, it to have your head in the sand and be oblivious to how many coaches do the same thing in practice each day. again, im not sitting here judging right or wrong. im simply expressing the reality of what goes on at these power conference schools. is the authoritarian, hard-ass style becoming a little antiquated? probably. but it still exists at plenty of big time programs.

 

[Sun Tzu]

It is becoming antiquated because, indeed, the pussification of America.

Like you GMan I know plenty of folks who have played college ball and all have them get treated essentially the same way in practice all the time. If it wasnt Knight nobody would have batted on eye. Pure hypocrisy.

Interesting how nobody cared when Knight suspended his best player for not trying hard enough in the classroom. Let me know the names of all the other DI coaches that do those sorts of things. But shit, we better not ever praise him, right?

Funny, this supposedly is about the kid, and when he says it is no big deal he is now a liar or didnt have any choice....how convenient....

 

[The Sponge]

More evidence of the pussification of America.

He didnt do anything wrong. Every kid at Tech and their parents know exactly what they are getting. The guys who get through their 4 years would go to the grave for the man. That speaks volumes.

Screw the touhy feely guys...if they dont like it go play somewhere where you get hugged every day...if the hug doesnt offend you of course.

Exactly bro. If i had a son who could play ball he would be sent right to Knight. What did they want him to do give the kid some Ritalin? The shit all the pussy kids are now on today. I tried to get some of this shit for my problems when i was a kid but my dad had other ideas. They were a kick in the ass or a punch in the gut. I hear that our country is the only country that has this ADD bullshit disease. I had it for five seconds and my old man had the antidote

 

[The Sponge]

Only problem i ever had with Knight was his comment about a woman being rapped. That was bizzare. if he ever should have gotten fired that comment was worth it. Not some choking of a kid that im sure he wasn't gonna choke to death.

 

[pt1gard]

i guess the question is: if other coaches across the country start doing this as reguarly as Franschilla said it happens then i guess you guys will condone it? Is this a green light for it to escalate? And if so, how hard are you allowed to strike someome?

And b/c it used to happen doesnt make it right, that line of thinking would've kept the hoses going in the 60s down south ...


sometimes more enlightened times are spawned ... I dont think dean smith hit his players or does Roy or Lorenzo Romar or Steve Fischer or Coach K or Morgan Wooten; maybe im wrong ...

I dont see what it gains you as a coach other than the disrespect of anyone with an IQ ... Im sure major recruits were impressed with Bobby and it will help him secure talent ... If you watched closely his elderly ass. coach had expression "oh, no, here he goes again" in background of chin punch ...

Im surprised you guys think "its part of the game," b/c its exactly what any classy coach abhors and would never do; its simply called 'crossing the line'

Gman2,

good post, but can you name specifically where other basketball coaches currently hit their players, and where you glommed this knowledge, instead of vaguely referencing it?

sun tzu,

would you hit your players? I would be intrigued to know that.

And praising Knight for doing some right things? C'mon, he gets plenty of that. They went overboard talking about him dismissing his star for grades all over epsn, steven a smith, many places, so Im not sure what point you are making on that old news ...

My understanding is that if Knight does good things, which everyone hears about from the media and his books (he alibied every single wrong doing in his coaching career in his most recent biography), then he can spin Machiaveliian and physically demean kids and its ok?

I find it jocular, since you are down with hitting kids, that of all the people on this board you would be the last guy to be able to absorb the same shot to the chops and be cheerful; you cant even let others come in your threads without becoming embittered and start your own twisted WTA posts .... anyhow I digress.

It's like the husband buying his wife flowers after sending her to the hospital. "My actions are justified b/c I gave money for the school library or helped out Landon Turner" ... Kobe buys a 5 million dollar ring for adultery, etc.

its ok, 72% of america voted that the act was cool ... if Box is on my side in this then I know im on the right path

take care
gregg