Fund Times: Bill Miller's Case Against Commodities

s_dooley24

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Fund Times

Fund Times: Bill Miller's Case Against Commodities
by Lawrence Jones | 04-27-06 | 03:42 PM

In his latest commentary, Legg Mason Value LMVTX manager Bill Miller argues the rush to get on the commodities bandwagon by journalists and pension funds alike is yet another sign that we're nearing a ceiling for the category's performance.

"Since the (commodities) rally we are experiencing is already bigger and longer lasting than the one that kicked off the 70's, it takes a determined optimist to say that now is time to be putting money in commodities," Miller wrote.

"The reason to own commodities may be that one believes they provide equity like returns with little correlation with equities," he wrote. "The time to own commodities is (or at least has been) when they are down, when everybody has lost money in them, and when they trade below the cost of production. That time is not now. The data showing the returns of commodities will look very different if you start measuring just after prices have tripled."

"Every commodity we can get data on trades significantly above both the average and the marginal cost of production," Miller wrote. "Copper, for example, has an average cost of production of around 90 cents per pound, and a marginal cost of about $1.30 per pound. The marginal cost should approximate the equilibrium price over time. The current price is around $3.25 per pound. It is not a question of if copper prices are going down, it is a question of when."

He goes on to say: "The US equity market has lagged those of the rest of the world by a wide margin for several years, and within our market the mega cap S&P names have lagged the small and mid caps, which are in the 7th year of relative outperformance, quite long in the tooth by historic standards. Part of the reason for the relative lack of interest in US stocks has been the relentless rise in short rates. Our central bank has been noticeably more hawkish than the rest of world, and money has flowed to where money was the easiest, outside the US. As we end our tightening cycle, and others remain engaged in theirs, our market should become relatively more attractive."

He concludes, "In general, you can get a good sense of what to buy now by looking to see what the worst performing assets or groups were over the past five or six years. That is long term for most people, and long enough to convince them that the malaise is permanent and to have migrated their money elsewhere, such as to whatever has done best in the past 5 or 6 years. Given the choice of buying Commodities with a capital C, or buying capital C--Citigroup--at current prices, I'll take the latter. Check back in 5 years."
 

selkirk

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Well I disagree. now it would not shock me that oil/metals stocks corrected they have and even during this upturn have had sharp pullbacks, ie. 10-20%.

respect the author and have seen this article before along with on by a Cdn. money manager who claimed we were entering into silly season.

yes, maybe it is a rally however these stocks are far different from the tech stocks (mania). most of those stocks did not have any earnings or yields, most had none in the future and even the so called blue chip tech (which fell also at the end) were trading at 40+ earnings per share.

most of these oil and base metals stocks are trading at 10X pe with growing dividends and cash on the balance sheet.

it is just wrong to quote the cost of production of copper at .90 a pound.

the cost is .90 pound in some low cost mines, after you discover the resource. spend millions drilling and getting permits, then spend a couple of billion on building the mine.

also after the mine is closed about 6 months of costs to shut it down. those are not counted towards the .90 per pound.

the author does not also mention that when you find a base metal mine it takes between 8-10 years to get the mine into production...if all goes well, instead of 5 years in the past.

I guess demand from China, and India will stop, and other parts of the world will have zero economic growth.

In the US even growth of 3% should support some of these prices.


another point the author does not bring up, nor did the cdn. money manager comparing this to tech is the rising cost of production.

for instance despite gold going from $350 to $650 many have not reported great blowout numbers.

the reason is the rising costs....labour is in short supply and wages are rising often more than inflation, fuel costs have tripled, heavy equipment prices are rising at 10%+ and you are lucky if you can get any.

Fording cdn. coal was going to have lower production because all of the large tires could not be supplied for the mine. a new factory will come on stream in 12-18 months.

maybe old Bill Miller should run a mine for a year and see the rising costs in production.

also in most cases there is very little production still coming of stream.

as for oil/gas there is plenty of oil/gas in inventories however overall surplus production is around 5-6 million barrels, and in many areas production is just being maintained.

As the mandarins of Wall Street make predictions, China and India have been buying oil properties in Nigeria and Sudan, (not nice places) and other parts of Asia. and are looking at the cdn. oil sands.

time will tell (10+ yrs.) who is correct.
by the way if the US enters into a recession, worldwide; would not want to own the resource plays, but large US companies would not be a great hold either.

thanks
selkirk
 

s_dooley24

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LONDON MARKETS: Commodity Stocks Boost London; M&A In Focus

05-02-06 07:00 AM EST
The London benchmark got a boost from oil and mining stocks and M&A moves on Tuesday as deal news put shipbuilders, retailers and food companies under the spotlight.

London's FTSE 100 indexadded 0.7%, or 40 points, to trade at 6,063. European markets were also higher, after companies such as Credit Suisse and Lafarge reported strong quarterly numbers.

Leading the benchmark gains was oil company Cairn Energy, up 3.7% on strength in oil. Crude was recently trading at $74.10 a barrel, and looked ready to once again test more record highs.

Miners Rio Tinto (RTP) and BHP Billiton (BHP) gained more than 2.5% after gold prices traded at around $657 an ounce.

"$700 an ounce now looks likely from current price levels over the coming weeks unless there is some significant negative event to set the market back," said John Meyer, a mining analyst at Numis Securities.


Aerospace and defense company BAE Systemsheaded up deal news. It confirmed that it intends to sell its 20% stake in European jetmaker Airbus to co-parent EADSafter issuing a put-option intention notice to the European aerospace group.

EADS owns 80% of Airbus. In a separate statement, EADS said BAE's statement of intent doesn't oblige it to proceed with formally exercising the option.

BAE shares rose 0.6%. EADS lost 1.3%.

Separately, BAE Systems said it hasn't decided to terminate a joint purchase of Babcock Group. BAE and partner VT Grouprecently said they were interested in buying the shipbuilding company to restructure the U.K. maritime sector. If an offer is made for Babcock, it must be made by May 18.

Babcock eased 0.1% and VT Group gained 0.7%.

In the food and beverage sector, producer Premier Foodsrose 2.6% in the second-ranked FTSE 250 index after saying it's evaluating a number of acquisition opportunities.

Premier Foods said it made the statement in response to speculation linking it to potential acquisitions, including certain businesses within the United Biscuits and Campbell Soup Company groups.

Music and book retailer HMV Groupdeclined 0.7% after it said that Lazard Private Equity Partners has withdrawn its support for Tim Waterstone's bid to buy bookstore chain Waterstone's.

Tim Waterstone and Anthony Forbes Watson, in conjunction with private equity firms, said on April 24 that they were prepared to buy Waterstone's for up to 280 million pounds.

Meanwhile, department-store operator House of Frasergained 6.7% after it received a very preliminary approach that may or may not lead to an offer being made.

Scottish retail entrepreneur Tom Hunter and Icelandic retail group Baugur Group are interested in making a bid of 309 million pounds for the company, in The Daily Telegraph newspaper reported.

British chip designer CSRwas another standout.

It rose 11.5% after saying first-quarter pretax profit more than doubled to $ 25.8 million from $10.9 million on strong demand for Bluetooth wireless technology. The group, whose chips are used in handsets, headsets and computers, said revenue jumped to $134.9 million from $66.4 million.


---Just some news to start off the day from across the pond---
 
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