G.E.?s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether

[Mags]

Maggot is spouting the party line - corporate taxes are too high. Here's the truth -


Conservatives think they?ve found a way to sell middle-class voters on a corporate tax cut. John McCain has been touring the country telling displaced factory workers that their jobs will come back if corporations get to keep more of their profits. According to McCain, ?America has the second highest business [tax] rate in the entire world. It's any wonder that jobs are moving overseas. We're taxing them out of the country.? [John McCain]

That might be a compelling argument? if it weren?t completely false. Progressives can?t let conservatives distort the facts. We need to tell the truth about corporate taxes and lead on a real plan to strengthen the American economy.

The Facts

The problem is not that corporations are overtaxed. In fact, a whopping two-thirds of American corporations and foreign corporations doing business in the United States pay absolutely no federal income taxes?despite taking in $2.5 trillion in sales. [Government Accounting Office] In 2005, 28 percent of large foreign companies doing business in the United States (those with more than $250 million in assets or $50 million in sales) paid no taxes.

Compared to our competitors? corporate tax rates, the U.S. rate is low. According to the World Bank and PricewaterhouseCoopers, the United States? total corporate tax burden ranks 76th of over 100 countries. [World Bank] When conservatives claim that the U.S. tax rate is high, they?re talking about the ?statutory rate.? But corporations treat the statutory rate as just a guideline?they use offshore tax havens and accounting loopholes to pay much lower actual rates. The tax rate corporations actually pay is lower than the rates of economic competitors such as China (15th highest tax rate), India (19th), and Mexico (51st). [World Bank]

The U.S. collects less in corporate taxes than other wealthy countries do. Measuring tax collections as a share of GDP is a good way to put a country?s tax rate in the context of its economy?s size. In the last seven years, the U.S. has collected an average of 2.4 percent of its GDP in corporate taxes?less than the average 3.4 percent collected by other industrialized nations. If laws remain the same, U.S. corporate taxes will be only 1.9 percent of GDP in less than ten years. [U.S. Treasury Department]

Corporations should pay their fair tax share. American workers increasingly carry more of the tax burden than corporations do. In the 1950s, corporate income taxes accounted for about a quarter of federal tax revenues; now they account for just one-tenth, leaving workers to pay the difference. [Economic Policy Institute]

http://www.ourfuture.org/makingsense/alert/2008093603/truth-about-corporate-taxes

Maggot - Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Dumb Ass - of course I mean Duff Miver - is twisting things again.

All I "spouted" was what was on 60 minutes - and asked people to comment on the story. This isn't a "party line" or even "my line" - it was a story done by a news program that is viewed to be middle of the road, if not liberal.

Duffy - get a life - and quit with the attacks. And stop changing the story. No wonder you liberals get no credit - instead of debating the issues, you turn everything into an attack. Which is a typical response when you lack the intelligence to argue anything on their own merits.

 

[Duff Miver]

Dumb Ass - of course I mean Duff Miver - is twisting things again.

All I "spouted" was what was on 60 minutes - and asked people to comment on the story. This isn't a "party line" or even "my line" - it was a story done by a news program that is viewed to be middle of the road, if not liberal.

Duffy - get a life - and quit with the attacks. And stop changing the story. No wonder you liberals get no credit - instead of debating the issues, you turn everything into an attack. Which is a typical response when you lack the intelligence to argue anything on their own merits.

Soooo, maggot - how do US corporate taxes compare with most other countries?


You can explain it over drinks and dinner - on me.:142smilie

 

[Mags]

Soooo, maggot - how do US corporate taxes compare with most other countries?


You can explain it over drinks and dinner - on me.:142smilie

with your 70 year old wife at a flower shop in Paris?????

:toast:

 

[Mags]

Soooo, maggot - how do US corporate taxes compare with most other countries?


You can explain it over drinks and dinner - on me.:142smilie

Another thing you of course didn't have the ability to be able to think through...

If a high Stat tax rate in the US is driving companies offshore, resulting in a lower effective rate for those companies - maybe they are telling the truth that they'd bring that money back if the Stat rate in the US was more consistent with other countries?

Just a thought (I know, you don't have many of those on your own)

 

[ssd]

What was relevant to me in an article that I read about GE - they move their profitable divisions off-shore and leave their unprofitable onshore - thereby qualifying for a tax rebate or no tax at all. If the tax rate was lower, would they move a profitable division back on-shore?

Furthermore, because of the US corporate tax rate, many US companies with international businesses have hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars banked out of the country because, if they repatriate that cash, they will be charged the 35% tax rate. Having that cash back state-side WOULD encourage job creation in my opinion so one area that they could look at reform would be to allow the repatriation of those profits earned overseas at a lower rate.

 

[Mags]

What was relevant to me in an article that I read about GE - they move their profitable divisions off-shore and leave their unprofitable onshore - thereby qualifying for a tax rebate or no tax at all. If the tax rate was lower, would they move a profitable division back on-shore?

Furthermore, because of the US corporate tax rate, many US companies with international businesses have hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars banked out of the country because, if they repatriate that cash, they will be charged the 35% tax rate. Having that cash back state-side WOULD encourage job creation in my opinion so one area that they could look at reform would be to allow the repatriation of those profits earned overseas at a lower rate.

EXACTLY.....however, if they leave the corp tax rate at the level it is at, these companies won't bring the $$$ back - even if they get a one time exemption to bring the funds back.

Wonder how all these other wonderful European countries can afford to have such a low corporate tax rate? opcorn2

 

[Duff Miver]

EXACTLY.....however, if they leave the corp tax rate at the level it is at, these companies won't bring the $$$ back - even if they get a one time exemption to bring the funds back.

Wonder how all these other wonderful European countries can afford to have such a low corporate tax rate? opcorn2

It's absolutely amazing, Maggot, how you can be so freaking dense and still have the ability to draw air. Here, find a seven year old to read this to you, from Chad's original posting - -

The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

GE earned $5.1 billion in the USA and paid not one penny in tax.

And, since they paid local taxes on the money earned outside of the USA, they paid zero USA tax on that, whether they repatriated that money or not.

That's what $286 million in lobbying bought them.

Sheesh.

 

[Trench]

with your 70 year old wife at a flower shop in Paris?????

:toast:

Why don't you post a photo of your wife, Mags?

Then we can all guess her age, weight, when she lost her virginity...

 

[Trench]

One of the points made in the story - they said the US corporate tax rate is 35% - which is well above "most, if not all" other countries corporate tax rate.....

Wake up Maggie, I think I've got somethin' to say to you...

Mags posts this while completely ignoring the previous post where Duff showed that 10 of the largest corporations in America received tax refunds or payed a net tax rate of no more than 1.1%. The tax "rate" is meaningless, Mags. Corporatons don't pay the tax "rate". Their armies of tax lawyers make sure they don't pay the tax "rate".

I'm pretty good with Photoshop if you need me to draw you a picture, Mags.

 

[Duff Miver]

Wake up Maggie, I think I've got somethin' to say to you...

Mags posts this while completely ignoring the previous post where Duff showed that 10 of the largest corporations in America received tax refunds or payed a net tax rate of no more than 1.1%. The tax "rate" is meaningless, Mags. Corporatons don't pay the tax "rate". Their armies of tax lawyers make sure they don't pay the tax "rate".

I'm pretty good with Photoshop if you need me to draw you a picture, Mags.

And that's the point. I'd gladly pay a tax rate of 110% if I could shelter or deduct 111%.

No, wait, make that shelter or deduct 250% so I could get a tax credit like GE does.

 

[Mags]

Wake up Maggie, I think I've got somethin' to say to you...

Mags posts this while completely ignoring the previous post where Duff showed that 10 of the largest corporations in America received tax refunds or payed a net tax rate of no more than 1.1%. The tax "rate" is meaningless, Mags. Corporatons don't pay the tax "rate". Their armies of tax lawyers make sure they don't pay the tax "rate".

I'm pretty good with Photoshop if you need me to draw you a picture, Mags.

Trench - he posted the 10 companies - and quoted sales figures, not PROFITS. There is a difference.... GM sold products for years but still lost money.

Can also sell a ton but reinvest money so no tax is owed.

Sales means crap. And his message was crap.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Trench - he posted the 10 companies - and quoted sales figures, not PROFITS. There is a difference.... GM sold products for years but still lost money.

Can also sell a ton but reinvest money so no tax is owed.

Sales means crap. And his message was crap.

Why do you think that he posted sales figures, you think Exxon had $19 B in sales?

 

[Chadman]

I'm sorry, I don't see much here to dispute the original article, and subsequent decisions made by companies in relation to it. What the conservative views here are asking us to believe is that (I guess) American companies who know how to beat the system would modify their business model which is keeping them from paying anything in taxes in this country while profiting handsomely from doing business in it will change that model ONLY if the tax rates come down - that they are avoiding already and profiting handsomely from. Excuse me if I don't have faith in those companies to care about this country to the point of changing their bottom line to help it. There is NOTHING to show that they would - and plenty to show that they wouldn't.

They already know how to beat the system. Why would they advocate or change their focus to jeopardize that? They already spend millions to ensure their beating the system continues, which does not go in the pockets of the workers of this country, nor the shareholders of their company.

Again - the ONLY thing these corporations care about is their bottom line, and the fact that they currently conduct business and profit handsomely from it in this country, and pay NOTHING for that right, is sad. You conservatives rant about your tax dollars going into other people's pockets for nothing - and yet could care less about this? Seriously? Talk about disingenuous...

And, bottom line - it won't get better unless reform takes place. It wil get worse, thanks to the Supreme Court allowing these corporations to increasingly shape the politics of this country, while the elected officials they are propping up are taking drastic measures to eliminate the individual from the situation. Corporations will soon rule our country completely - and the only way anyone will benefit is if you are invested in the right companies that control the country.

SAD. :facepalm:

 

[Duff Miver]

It's not just GE -


1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.
2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies. He also introduced legislation to impose a 5.4 percent surtax on millionaires that would yield up to $50 billion a year. The senator has said that spending cuts must be paired with new revenue so the federal budget is not balanced solely on the backs of working families.
"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."

Of course these great capitalists used all that money they dodged taxes on to create hew jobs in the USA.

And if you believe that, I've got this beautiful piece of oceanfront property in LA....

Maggot, you illiterate dink, have that 7 year old read you the red parts.

 

[Trench]

Trench - he posted the 10 companies - and quoted sales figures, not PROFITS. There is a difference.... GM sold products for years but still lost money.

Can also sell a ton but reinvest money so no tax is owed.

Sales means crap. And his message was crap.

Mags, the Baghdad Bob of Madjacks...

"Be assured... the infidels are quoting sales
figures, not profits!"

 

[The Sponge]

Mags, the Baghdad Bob of Madjacks...

"Be assured... the infidels are quoting sales
figures, not profits!"

:142smilie

 

[Duff Miver]

Mags, the Baghdad Bob of Madjacks...

"Be assured... the infidels are quoting sales
figures, not profits!"

Nice one, Trench. :0054

 

[The Sponge]

Maggot, you illiterate dink, have that 7 year old read you the red parts.

Most true capitalists would be against corporate welfare. Not these phony conservatives we have here.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

A shame we can't divide the U.S. so each side can live with their convictions--

Caterpillar's Message for Illinois - Rep. Peter Roskam, The Daily Caller

Did ya all ever consider where you'd get the money to redistribute for your entiltements-without corp america.

Can we agree to live and let live--we'll take all corps-farmers etc

you got those areas that remain after those big bad corps/industries pull out--you can look at your liberal mecca's like Detroit for a preview--if that would help-


--also here is petition from moveon--to get Gumby's guy Immelt removed from job council--
http://pol.moveon.org/immelt_must_go/?rc=tw

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Wake up Maggie, I think I've got somethin' to say to you...

Mags posts this while completely ignoring the previous post where Duff showed that 10 of the largest corporations in America received tax refunds or payed a net tax rate of no more than 1.1%. The tax "rate" is meaningless, Mags. Corporatons don't pay the tax "rate". Their armies of tax lawyers make sure they don't pay the tax "rate".

I'm pretty good with Photoshop if you need me to draw you a picture, Mags.

Duff's showed :facepalm: You must be back in France again :142smilie

What baffoons--we got Muffy with his liberal math--trenchmouth swearing by them--and their resident accountant biting also.

I'll draw you 25 pictures--follow along--then do your kurby

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-exxon-walmart-business-washington-corporate-taxes_slide_2.html

P.S. Thread is going in archives for next time Muffins does his/her/it's liberal rope a dope
How many times have you been sucked in.

--and you all do the ole -
--carry on