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DOGS THAT BARK

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Jul 13, 1999
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Just taking your attempted point and examining it closely.

1. $37 billion in public works spending
Would create jobs with additional workers being needed to work on public works projects - or at the very least keep those workers employed and working. Not to mention improving or maintaining our infrastructure which is badly in need of attention, as most realists would agree. This is 60% of the program, and I guess is somehow not important to you when trying to make a point. Job creation and maintenance programs that will also make our lives safer and better. What a concept.

2. $6 billion to extend unemployment benefits. Do you think that these people should just do without at a time when unemployment is rising and more people are losing their jobs? That's fine, if that's your stance, just wondering what the answer should be? Less benefits, fewer jobs, more competition for those jobs, and anyone without a job is considered to be a freeloader and accepting handouts. A convenient stance, for the unaffected, I would say.

3. $15 to states to help pay their Medicaid bills. I don't know exactly what that means, but I'm guessing that Medicaid costs for states and individuals are skyrocketing now, and government assistance from the current regime is not helping that, if anything is undercutting it. We know the current regime is against Medicare and Medicaid negotiating for better pricing on behalf of Americans on the program, which is a huge contributor to rising costs - not to mention being against any regulation or control over price for those providing the cost risers to the program. Seems pretty anti-Americans, to me, unless you are for the ones benefiting from the perfect storm of money-making sponsored by the current administration.

4. $3 billion in food stamp assistance to the poor. Less than 5% of the proposal for this, which is the same argument we have had for a long time. Rising unemployment, rising costs for food, and anything else a low income earner has to choose from, and fewer opportunities to get out of the situation you are in. This money is a concern to some, when we throw away this same amount every week in Iraq, on behalf of people who aren't even Americans. Interesting...and those that argue FOR that spending don't seem to qualify who is benefiting from that money, and I'd guess there are a lot of people who are that don't even like America and wish to subvert it.

But, this money bothers you, I guess. To each their own. Your premise about creating jobs is arguable at worst, and pretty much wrong, in the majority of the bill, in my opinion.

#1 may to some extent

Extending unemployment past their intended limited would be encouringing people not to look for other emploment IMO.

The medicaid and food stamps belongs in (Bryantz are you smart enough thread) :mj07:

--on more serious note--we have all these illegals doing jobs no one else wants--you ever think if social benefits were not so lucrative that maybe these jobs wouldn't look so bad and we'd get rid of illegals and put those on welfare to work at same time.

:0corn
 

Chadman

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Apr 2, 2000
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I don't know the history between the two of you, but I am reading that there is some. I may be missing the point due to my lack of knowing these details.

But let me ask this question: Do you feel that higher taxes and the federal government are what creates jobs?

There is plenty of history between Wayne and myself, and I've always enjoyed it. I have a lot of respect for him and his points of view, for the most part. [That's enough about THAT].

We don't share many of the same views, but I'd like to think we both come at things from a constructive place, and want what's best for the country. As with many, we don't agree on how to get to that place, or what that place should be like. We do agree on quite a few things, really.

To your question, no, I don't think at face value that higher taxes and the federal government create jobs. I do think the federal government is the largest employer of Americans, and in most cases is looking out for our best interests - which is just my opinion, of course. Is there waste and non-valid security in many of those positions...sure. True about many employers in the country, I'm sure.

I was merely responding to Wayne's point about that specific program, and pointing out that his base premise was in part off base, for the reasons I pointed out. The main part of the program would actually create jobs, and that was against his point.

I do think many democrats are not good stewards of our tax money, and dems usually are quick to look at tax increases first before looking at ways to cut things. I do have a problem with that, and wish it were a bit less prevalent in the plan for many. But there are tough cuts that need to be made on both sides of the aisle, and I generally prefer cuts to come from things that Wayne and others don't agree with. To start with a balanced budget and not paying 1/3 of my tax money to service the national debt, being probably the biggest one.

There is no perfect party. That's painfully obvious. We have to make our choices, and I make mine on a case by case basis, usually, with a lean to the left. Hope this addresses your question, Dawg.
 

Chadman

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Apr 2, 2000
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Wayne, at face value I can agree to looking at your last bolded point. I think you know I am in agreement that strides need to be made on the illegal alien front, and putting the unemployed to work, especially after an understandable, set period of time. I don't think I'm very liberal when it comes to looking at the illegal alien topic, and think it is as much a national security concern for me as anything, both from safety and economic perspectives.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
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Jul 13, 1999
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Bowling Green Ky
Wayne, at face value I can agree to looking at your last bolded point. I think you know I am in agreement that strides need to be made on the illegal alien front, and putting the unemployed to work, especially after an understandable, set period of time. I don't think I'm very liberal when it comes to looking at the illegal alien topic, and think it is as much a national security concern for me as anything, both from safety and economic perspectives.

I don't think your liberal on most issues Chad--
your one of my favs as a poster and person to debate--have never seen you throw up opinion without have a justitfication to back it up--
We seldom believe each other views justify the means but thats what democracy is all about.

IMO election will be nail biter to he end!
 

Chadman

Realist
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Apr 2, 2000
7,501
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SW Missouri
The good thing about the upcoming election for me is that I now work at home on Tuesday and Wednesdays, so I can stay up as late as I can stand it on election night to watch the craziness unfold. I was listening to one of the "news" channels at lunch, and they were saying how careful the networks will need to be this year due to so many excited young people that support Obama would be seeking out microphones and cameras to promote their excitement. I can see that being an issue with not buying into exit polls early on. Will be a very tough call for some producers that night, I would think.
 
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