gonzaga beats NC (comments afterwards)

[pt1gard]

not too shocking zags playing better without the stars, AM and Batista ... as I coach I always fear a team with more options is tougher to defend ... Few a damn good coach and great staff ... bouldin kid is savvy (dont miss this guy play); Zags had 15 pt lead and put in freezer and nearly blew it ... NC couldnt hit a trey down stretch to put pressure on zags either ... not sure how far zags can go but refreshing to see that "team" play is superior to a star system ... its the kobe and AI theme, never getting too far that way...

congrats to Zags, 8.5 dogs with fairly easy win even after trailing 10-0

happy turkey day
gregg

 

[primate22]

credit to the zags, a well coached team with some good players. it looks like it will take the heels some time to adjust to the addition of 5 new players getting meaningful minutes. it must be somewhat difficult for guys that had major contributions last year, coming off the bench as roll players this year. will be difficult for these guys to get into a groove playing 4-6 minute stretches. it looks like the players on the floor are timid, there is so much talent around them that they are not sure if they should take the shot or if someone around them should get the ball. they have been going 13 deep. the freshman class is great, but are still freshman, turnovers, bad shots, defense, etc. must get the ball to hansbrough more, 5 shots is not acceptable. i have full confidence that this team will be there in the end, to much talent and williams is to good, but it looks like it will take some time. eventually it will just click and we will see the difference.

 

[saint]

Carolina has been overrated up to this point. They will live up to it but it's going to take time. Roy has to learn he can't rotate 10+ guys. We were dominating gonzaga from the start and he pulls the whole rotation and puts in the bench in 4-5 mins...total momentum killer. Gonzaga has to get some credit, they played well. The thing carolina needs is for their players to find their respective roles. When it was crunch time last night everyone looked at each other and was waiting for someone to step up. Eventually they will figure that out.

Outside shooting needs to be improved as well. As the zags did last night, teams will collapse down on hans and play zone to force carolina into shooting the deep ball. Last night shows what happens when you can't hit any of them.

 

[pt1gard]

saint,

ironically, NC thru the years when dean was there was my fave team, could not stand the arrogance of Doherty; was very glad Roy arrived ...

I thought NC took some shaky shots and almost played too fast at times ... that said, had they dropped some treys they coulda won, 6/27 ... but bigger than that, Player of Year condidate T. Hans only got 5 shots and made two ... credit someone on the other side for that ... didnt see TH usual fire, he didnt even have a presence ...

Im sure NC will get much better, but Roy has a logn way to go as of now

gl, gregg

 

[gman2]

wont be around much today but would love to hear your thoughts on why you dont like doherty. imo, he is a terrific coach that got a raw deal at carolina. roy followed the larry coker blueprint for a championship by inheriting doherty's blue chippers. i think he is going to do a great job at smu and turn them into a legitimate program in conference usa. i know thats doesnt seem like high praise after being at nd and unc, but hes a great motivator and his teams play hard as shit. just wondering what you dont like about him.

 

[pt1gard]

hope he changed his tune, heard he was sexist and many inside comments denouncing him from players; and if he was doign a good job why was he run off? ... if he has figured out the world doesnt revolve around him, its a good thing for job security ... some people change and others remain bullies like Bobby Knight and get platitudes... and i hardly think Roy needs help recruiting thru his career, NC should and always has got great players ...

from espn page 2: Miss Loving to Hate: Matt Doherty USA Today ran a piece on the former Tar Heels coach on Dec. 15, attempting to show that Doherty learned from the mistakes that led to his ouster from Chapel Hill. The writer, Malcolm Moran, didn't directly quote anyone outside of Florida for the piece, which was great for Doherty. Had Moran gone to Chapel Hill, he might have heard the seemingly unreal stories about Doherty's treatment of players that bounced around Chapel Hill in his last two years on the job. Many of them were contained in an e-mail that sharply divided followers of Tar Heel hoops. Much has been disputed, but a source close to the team (who asked not to be identified) said he once heard Doherty tell then-freshman Sean May he wasn't "half the man or player [his] father was," and referred to him as a "fat ass" in front of his teammates.

To paraphrase Silky Johnson, I hope all the bad things in life happen to Doherty. And only Doherty. Recruiting the foundation of a championship team doesn't begin to account for such behavior. How Florida Atlantic could justify hiring him is beyond any realm of comprehension.


now since i answered your question and not to be a smart ass, etc...

i was wondering if you ever saw my post on that other franscilla thread where i was curious of the programs where you claimed you knew that other D1 basketball coaches currently hit their players?

happy thanksgiving
gregg

 

[gman2]

gregg
i didnt mean to imply that roy needed 'help' recruiting. but simply saying that a lot of people forget (not you, but a lot of others) that doherty was the one who brought that fantastic class to carolina that ultimately won roy his first championship. certainly not a dig at roy, but more of a credit to doherty.

as for as the frachilla thread, yeah i can definitely vouch for some first hand accounts that some buddies and acquaintances speak of when it comes to some some (shall we say) "over the top" disciplinary tactics. are we talking about physical abuse of a player? of course not. but definitely strong physical contact to get a point across. and verbal? yikes. we're talking about some coaches challenging players to fights (more of a test of manhood of course to see how they respond) and calling them pussies in front of some media in open practices. these 'stories' come from the late 90s and early part of the 2000s. so definitely some contemporary coaches, though not within the last few years. we're talking coaches in the big ten, acc, and horizon. as ive said, these are funny stories in retrospect now that these guys have graduated and can tell some classic stories over beers. but at the time, im sure a lot of these guys had to wonder if the coaches had screws loose.

like i said, ive never condoned what knight did (or still does). i simply said that i can say (unfortunately) hes not the only one who is way over the top with his coaching methods. in a perfect world, coaches dont have to do that to kids. but some respond to that kind of stuff and become better players. and others simply wont tolerate that from a coach and i can certainly respect that too.

 

[saint]

Doh verbally abused and in limited cases got physical with the players. I know most big D1 coaches do this time to time but he was way overboard. This is not heresay, but straight from the mouth of a player and a manager to my ears. I felt bad because at the end of the day the man really just wanted the best for the program. His youth got the best of him, and he'll be back at the helm of a big D1 basketball school one of these days.

 

[pt1gard]

good posts, you guys ... Gman, i was honestly just really curious what coaches currently hit their players like i had seen Knight do several times ...

i have gone to many pac-10 'closed' practices thru the years (several hundred at the UW) and never seen anything even close to that conduct ... I asked some of my D1 coaching pals if it goes on today, and they said they didnt know of any current coach that uses hands or heads to the face of their players other than the Bully ... theres a big difference demonstrating to a kid how to box out or jam a passing lane, then striking him in the chops or choking him ...

It surprised me Doherty was said to have been such an ass, cuz he was always such a team player with MJ etc ... but like i said, hopefully, he has matured. I hope he gets SMU rolling, Ira Terrel, Jon Koncak, were a good ones there, and I used to live a bike ride from that campus as a lil kid.

all my best
gregg

 

[gman2]

gregg-
if you really want to know more specific examples, go ahead and get my email from jack and we can discuss that kind of stuff off the forum. i know your interest has been piqued seeing as your a coach. i just dont feel its fair to discuss names and that kind of stuff on a public forum. even though they shouldnt be treated as confidential things, i still feel its only fair to just allude to these in general as opposed to naming specific teams and coaches (on mj's that is).

 

[pt1gard]

thanx gman2,

my email is my MJ's name at aol ... go ahead and send me an email with your info ... I really would like to know so I would never send one of my players to any of these beaters, plus I could pass the word to other HS coaches ... you would be doing a big service ...

take care
gregg