Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War

[Trench]

Wisconsin State Senator Dale Schultz (R) has pulled his support for Scott Walker's ridiculous Budget Reform bill. That makes the vote 18-15. If two more Republican senators pull their support for the bill, it will be voted down 17-16. Mags, perhaps you should listen to someone from your own party who isn't blinded by partisan politics. Sen. Schultz is a rare breed in politics... an honest man.

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[Mags]

Really? You've got a short memory.

YYZ addressed this a couple of weeks ago where he showed that only five states do not have collective bargaining for public employees and each of those states ranked in the bottom seven nationwide in ACT/SAT scores for college bound students. Says a LOT about which states place a high value on education and which do not.

No correlation. States with the lowest scores also have the highest African American populations. To use your logic, then that would also be the reason.

 

[Mags]

That could be true but he maybe more known as a Union Buster. People will remember the bad more than the good. Remember this.. the Union already agreed to the monetary demands so they should expect a better budget. That is not what the fight is about.

What if his budget still sucks? Wait and see. He maybe able to climb out of this but he is walking up an icy mountain.

Actually the union refused the monetary demands in the beginning - then realized that they were fighting a losing battle in that regard, so they changed their stance and cried about union rights.

Although it is the union LEADERS that are pushing this - as their salaries are directly tied to union contributions.

It is all about union money - not worker "rights". Why can't state government workers be judged on their own merits, rather than the "collective" merit like the private sector?

Me thinks they are scared, as they know the majority of them will not fare well....

 

[Mags]

Wisconsin State Senator Dale Schultz (R) has pulled his support for Scott Walker's ridiculous Budget Reform bill. That makes the vote 18-15. If two more Republican senators pull their support for the bill, it will be voted down 17-16. Mags, perhaps you should listen to someone from your own party who isn't blinded by partisan politics. Sen. Schultz is a rare breed in politics... an honest man.

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No, he's a dumb@ass that is giving in to the special interests called unions. A man would stand up for what is right - no more discrimination against the private sector.

 

[Trench]

No correlation. States with the lowest scores also have the highest African American populations. To use your logic, then that would also be the reason.

I know you're enamored with every word the little dictator utters, but try to stay on topic.

You said: "WI is in the minority in terms of what public workers are allowed". YYZ's already pointed out that Wisconsin is one of 45 states in which public sector employees have collective bargaining rights.

Yeah, that sounds like some minority... :mj07:

 

[Trench]

No, he's a dumb@ass that is giving in to the special interests called unions. A man would stand up for what is right - no more discrimination against the private sector.

If Sen. Schultz is a "dumb@ss", he's a dumb@ass with more integrity, courage and honesty than you'll ever have. The same goes for the 14 Senators (brave men and women all) who've become fugitives from the little dictator and his gestapo tactics.

The Koch Brothers have fucked with the wrong state.

Democracy will prevail in Wisconsin.

 

[yyz]

It is all about union money - not worker "rights". Why can't state government workers be judged on their own merits, rather than the "collective" merit like the private sector?

Me thinks they are scared, as they know the majority of them will not fare well....

You really think "most" workers fear they would lose their jobs based on performance? Come on, man.

He wants to have our collective bargaining so he can have a 100% say in how we work. That way.....he can slash overtime costs in some sectors. On it's face, that sounds great. To the people who will have to dance like puppets on strings? Not so much.

I like working 6am-2pm, with my standard 2 days off each week. I really don't want to be told I no longer have a set schedule, because there might be overtime down the road, and we can avoid it if I work second or third shift a few days a week.

I don't really want to work 16 hours tomorrow for regular wages, either....and then get told I can have the next day off.

I don't want to drive 30 miles to work, check in, and get told, "Say, come back at 2.....we have enough people for this shift, but we're short on second."

Avoidance of these things are what my "thug union" has won for me in the past. Amazingly.....it has worked for 50 years.

I have no doubt the union official don't want to lose their money, either! Would you? Don't raise such a stupid issue.

How you talk out one side of your mouth about how the union leaders are only out for themselves and the "party", and somehow avoid the fact that Walker completely does whatever he can to destroy unions in this state, and HOPEFULLY country, for his "party" and big business who is sponsoring him, is ridiculous.

The pox he has cast on this state is irreversable, no matter what comes down the road in the next few days or weeks. He has cracked this state like the Liberty Bell, and people will stare at it, just like the Bell, for decades to come.

Walker is just the patsy the "gypsy" businessmen told to cause a disturbance in one part of the "store", while they looted the cash register.

The scene just hasn't been played all the way through yet.

 

[Mags]

You really think "most" workers fear they would lose their jobs based on performance? Come on, man.

He wants to have our collective bargaining so he can have a 100% say in how we work. That way.....he can slash overtime costs in some sectors. On it's face, that sounds great. To the people who will have to dance like puppets on strings? Not so much.

I like working 6am-2pm, with my standard 2 days off each week. I really don't want to be told I no longer have a set schedule, because there might be overtime down the road, and we can avoid it if I work second or third shift a few days a week.

I don't really want to work 16 hours tomorrow for regular wages, either....and then get told I can have the next day off.

I don't want to drive 30 miles to work, check in, and get told, "Say, come back at 2.....we have enough people for this shift, but we're short on second."

Avoidance of these things are what my "thug union" has won for me in the past. Amazingly.....it has worked for 50 years.

I have no doubt the union official don't want to lose their money, either! Would you? Don't raise such a stupid issue.

How you talk out one side of your mouth about how the union leaders are only out for themselves and the "party", and somehow avoid the fact that Walker completely does whatever he can to destroy unions in this state, and HOPEFULLY country, for his "party" and big business who is sponsoring him, is ridiculous.

The pox he has cast on this state is irreversable, no matter what comes down the road in the next few days or weeks. He has cracked this state like the Liberty Bell, and people will stare at it, just like the Bell, for decades to come.

Walker is just the patsy the "gypsy" businessmen told to cause a disturbance in one part of the "store", while they looted the cash register.

The scene just hasn't been played all the way through yet.

YYZ - I do enjoy hearing your feedback, as one that is potentially directly impacted by this.

Do you reallly think some of those issues would arise? As I understand it, civil service protections are very strong, and would protect you from the abuses you list - whether there is a union or not (and make no mistake, there still will be a union).

I'm frankly surprised at all the blowback in WI on this issue. Ohio just passed something similar with little fanfare. Indiana (Mitch Daniels) did this by executive order 6 years ago (hey, Indiana actually has a state SURPLUS).

The world did not cave in in either state. I really doubt it would here either. But certainly, there will be some cost concessions for state workers - and I do understand, those are never easy to accept for anyone - private or public.

 

[yyz]

Do you reallly think some of those issues would arise? As I understand it, civil service protections are very strong, and would protect you from the abuses you list - whether there is a union or not (and make no mistake, there still will be a union).

Absolutely those things can happen. And what good will my union be, when it has no power?

Plus, the civil service protection doesn't even apply to teachers, or municiple employees. Only state workers. Under Walker's bill, something will be slapped together for the other folks.

The bottom line is, the person who has final say on any issue that you might bring up, is your manager, who is the person who would have brought the complaint against you in the first place.

So, unless I can go hide in Illinois when my boss has a bad day.........I don't like the odds.

I will be more than willing to keep the Madjack family in the loop as to what shakes out where I work.

I have no doubt that this asshole will throw us a bone or two at the end of the day.......but a serious fucking is coming my way over this CB shit.

 

[Mags]

The bottom line is, the person who has final say on any issue that you might bring up, is your manager, who is the person who would have brought the complaint against you in the first place.

Of course you realize that this is the case for 85% of the workforce in Wisconsin, don't you?

Being able to meet, and hopefully, exceed your bosses' expectations are part of employment.

In real life, if you don't, or if your boss doesn't like you, you are gone. And if you do well and your boss likes you, you do very well. Those are the rules that private folks work by - and those that are "above average" do very well.

Why are you so scared by being treated as an individual, and rewarded based on your own skills? :shrug:

 

[Trench]

Why are you so scared by being treated as an individual, and rewarded based on your own skills? :shrug:

Don't be stupid, Mags. No hard working, competent person is afraid of being judged on their own merits. In the public sector, there are no stock options, no bonuses, no profit sharing and no merit raises. Public employees sacrifice those things for job security and benefits they can count on. And now handjobs like you want to see those things taken away from public sector employees because... "It's not fair!!" :142crying

 

[Mags]

Don't be stupid, Mags. No hard working, competent person is afraid of being judged on their own merits. In the public sector, there are no stock options, no bonuses, no profit sharing and no merit raises. Public employees sacrifice those things for job security and benefits they can count on. And now handjobs like you want to see those things taken away from public sector employees because... "It's not fair!!" :142crying

Trench - and as you know, there are very few stock options, bonuses, etc for rank and file employees in the private sector. So this is a non-issue.

And merit raises in the private sector the last few years? :mj07:

But Public Employees (read teachers) do see increases from year to year based soley on length of service - its in their book that they get (my mom showed me hers).

But that gets away from the orginal point - the whole private sector can get fired tomorrow if they aren't doing a good job. That IS the way it should be done in the public sector. Likewise, if a public employee is performing above expectations, they should be rewarded appropriately.

That is a big problem with unions - they are more focused on "protecting" the poor performer - and not built to do the opposite. Which is certainly part of the reason our school system does such a bad job today - even your hero Obama recognizes this.

 

[yyz]

Mags,

My best friend has gotten a raise from his private sector job every single year for all 21 years he has worked there. (A bank.....go figure.)

He has a pretty nice benefit package, too.


I'm really tired of people making it sound like the rest of the nation is standing in a soup line, while public sector workers are dancing in the streets.

The mall parking lot is full every weekend here. People are still filling up their SUVs. There is still a 45-60 minute wait for dinner on the weekends over here, too.

People should have it so rough.

 

[Mags]

Mags,

My best friend has gotten a raise from his private sector job every single year for all 21 years he has worked there. (A bank.....go figure.)

He has a pretty nice benefit package, too.


I'm really tired of people making it sound like the rest of the nation is standing in a soup line, while public sector workers are dancing in the streets.

The mall parking lot is full every weekend here. People are still filling up their SUVs. There is still a 45-60 minute wait for dinner on the weekends over here, too.

People should have it so rough.

I understand. I guess it varies a lot by company. Many of my friends have not gotten increases for 2 years.

And my sis-in-law, who is a teacher, got a pink sliip for next year - as it is last in, first out. The last 30 teachers got pink slips - no matter how good/bad they are..... just seems like a dumb business practice to me.

 

[bleedingpurple]

I understand. I guess it varies a lot by company. Many of my friends have not gotten increases for 2 years.

And my sis-in-law, who is a teacher, got a pink sliip for next year - as it is last in, first out. The last 30 teachers got pink slips - no matter how good/bad they are..... just seems like a dumb business practice to me.

Most non union jobs where I have worked have usually gone by seniority when making lay offs. They didn't have to but they did. :00hour