Halladay to Phillies/Lee to Mariners/Lackey to Red Sox

shawn555

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Have wagered on MLB for over 10 years now and been very successful doing it. Opinions are like assholes everyone has one and I like to see them, I mean hear them. Well you know what i mean.

The Halladay trade obviously was most beneficial to the Phiillies as I said. The Howard contract will be a bargain if the Phils continue to dominate the NL and Howard continues to produce. Money means nothing to these owners, he was a bargain and the Phils saved themselves a lot of money by extending his contract now rather than letting him test the free agency market and have the Yankmees bring his price up like they do every other superstar.


Then why did they move Lee to clear salary?

And there is NO way that Howards holds up physically through this contract.

In a few years he will be even more of a liability defensively.

This contract is a huge mistake, if the Phillies were in the AL and could put him at DH the last few years of the contract, it would still be a bad contract.
 

BigGaycapper

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The Phillies moved Lee to get the best pitcher in baseball. What you guys are failing to see is that Halladay dominated the AL, and not just the AL but the AL east so he was facing the Yankmees, RedSux and Rays multiple times every year and still dominating. This was a great move especially since Lee will be fighting injuries for the rest of his career while Doc is throwing CG's. The Phillies know what they are doing, trust me.
 

shawn555

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The Phillies moved Lee to get the best pitcher in baseball. What you guys are failing to see is that Halladay dominated the AL, and not just the AL but the AL east so he was facing the Yankmees, RedSux and Rays multiple times every year and still dominating. This was a great move especially since Lee will be fighting injuries for the rest of his career while Doc is throwing CG's. The Phillies know what they are doing, trust me.

Lee being dealt had nothing to do with Halladay being dealt. They moved him to save on salary, in a completely different deal.

And everyone knows how great Doc is, so not sure why you keep bringing up how great he is.

And Lee had a complete game today. :shrug:

His era is 2.08 after four starts. :shrug:

The phillies may know what they are doing, but dealing Lee and extending Howard at that amount now, were two mistakes.
 

shawn555

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And you keep bringing up Cliff Lee's health and I have no idea why.

He was on the dl for abdominal strain nothing that shows concern for long term concern.

If it was a shoulder or elbow injury then I could see concern.

Could you tell me why Lee will
Lee will be fighting injuries for the rest of his career
while Doc will be throwing complete games?

He has a solid low stress delivery he repeats.

Is there something you know that no one else knows?
 

shawn555

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And one last thing about Howard's contract.

They are paying him 5.55 million for every war they get from him.

If the cards decided to pay Pujols on the same scale they would need to pay him 47.175 per season, and thats being cautious with his war.
 

BigGaycapper

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Your right Lee did have a complete game, a complete game LOSS. If the Mariners had a player like Howard maybe they could produce some runs and win some games for him when he isnt on the DL.
 

Glenn Quagmire

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As an M's fan, I'm still very happy with the trade. We gave away marginal prospects for one of the top lefties in the game. And I don't speak for all M's fans but I never had big expectations for them this year, simply because last year they overachieved big time. Getting Lee was great, but I've always looked at him as a guy who could get us a good package in return. I've never thought for a second he would be here long-term. Hell, the M's FO even admitted before he ever pitched a game that there was a good chance he wouldn't resign.

If Lee keeps dominating the way he has the M's should make out pretty well at the deadline. The only way this ends up being a bad trade for them is if they are stupid enough to not trade him at the deadline. We need to get players back in a trade for him, not the two draft picks we would get if/when he walks at the end of the season.
 

Glenn Quagmire

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Your right Lee did have a complete game, a complete game LOSS. If the Mariners had a player like Howard maybe they could produce some runs and win some games for him when he isnt on the DL.

So the M's having a shitty offense somehow makes the Lee deal bad for them? Why? :shrug:
 

shawn555

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Your right Lee did have a complete game, a complete game LOSS. If the Mariners had a player like Howard maybe they could produce some runs and win some games for him when he isnt on the DL.

What makes you think that he is going to be on the dl alot?

Do you have anything?

They could have waited and kept Lee, and then worried about extending Howard next year.

And everyone knows Howard was a beast last year and is a huge bat but my problem is with the length and amount of contract and the timing.

Keep Lee, dump Blanton and hold off on extending Howard.

He was already signed through next year and you have a bunch of first baseman becoming free agents or at least coming up on big extensions. You can get a better idea of what you can sign Howard for, and my bet is if you want to extend him for five years you can do it for a lot cheaper than 5/125.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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No worries. Sometimes I think I'm watching the 27 Yanks when the M's are hitting. ;)

They really suck ass at the plate. If Bradley comes back and hits and they pick up one more bat they are contenders. I'm not for trading any young kids for another bat though. Z has done a great job clearing payroll and doing the best with what he was given. Next few years should be fun.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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They should consider trading Lee to texas for Smoak.

I'm curious what they do with Lee. He'll be a Type A free agent so they would get compensation but thats not Z's style. Texas has a shitload of young talent. I would love to steal some from them.
 

Glenn Quagmire

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They should consider trading Lee to texas for Smoak.

I actually heard that very rumor just the other day, but I'm not sure if other players were involved. I know teams will probably try to put the screws to them because they know Lee will almost certainly walk at the end of the year, but I'd like to see more than Smoak back in a trade.

Maybe I'm overvaluing Lee but I think he's easily a top-10 pitcher, and probably better than that. He would probably bring back more if he was signed for 3 or 4 years, so that is another thing that hurts the M's. The M's need a catcher in the worst way, so I'd rather see a package like Ryan Doumit and another player or two for Lee.
 

Glenn Quagmire

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They really suck ass at the plate. If Bradley comes back and hits and they pick up one more bat they are contenders. I'm not for trading any young kids for another bat though. Z has done a great job clearing payroll and doing the best with what he was given. Next few years should be fun.

Agreed. They're kind of in a Catch-22 situation -- the M's don't have a lot of talent on the big club to make a trade, and Z has went on record as saying that his goal is to build the farm system back up after Bavasi destroyed it. Ok, so he didn't actually throw Bavasi under the bus, but that's the implication.

I really want to see what guys like Saunders and Ackley can do. I think we need to let those guys develop. And as much as I like Lee, I think he's the guy we have to focus on unloading. He's a star player that should command good talent, and he most likely won't be back next year. We have to move him while we can, IMO.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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I actually heard that very rumor just the other day, but I'm not sure if other players were involved. I know teams will probably try to put the screws to them because they know Lee will almost certainly walk at the end of the year, but I'd like to see more than Smoak back in a trade.

Maybe I'm overvaluing Lee but I think he's easily a top-10 pitcher, and probably better than that. He would probably bring back more if he was signed for 3 or 4 years, so that is another thing that hurts the M's. The M's need a catcher in the worst way, so I'd rather see a package like Ryan Doumit and another player or two for Lee.

He is a top 10 pitcher but you are right. He can walk. The M's aren't gonna get too much unless Bavasi gets a job somewhere else. I don't want the M's to sign him either. Deal him at the deadline if we can find some nice young players. Smoak would be a great deal.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Agreed. They're kind of in a Catch-22 situation -- the M's don't have a lot of talent on the big club to make a trade, and Z has went on record as saying that his goal is to build the farm system back up after Bavasi destroyed it. Ok, so he didn't actually throw Bavasi under the bus, but that's the implication.

I really want to see what guys like Saunders and Ackley can do. I think we need to let those guys develop. And as much as I like Lee, I think he's the guy we have to focus on unloading. He's a star player that should command good talent, and he most likely won't be back next year. We have to move him while we can, IMO.

If we get Smoak that would give us an infield of Triunfel (3B), Ackley (2B), Smoak (1B) and Franklin (SS). That could be pretty special. Franklin is a few more years away but it looks like he might have a really nice upside.
 
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