Happy Birthday Marines!!!!
- Thread starter GOAT
- Start date
Ditto:toast:
---and while I assume there will be a few vets reading this I have been puzzeled over a quote Jessica Lynch made in interview with Saywers and would like others thoughts.
In interview she was quoted as saying her gun jammed and she never fired a shot. It is my opinion it would be "highly unusual for a solider to go into combat zone without a shell chambered in their weapon.If the weapon jammed it would be only after the chambered round was discharged.For her statement to be correct she would have had to not have had shell chamber and after being attacked then try to chamber round--which I believe in additional statement she professed she had no desire to fire on Iraq's and also I believe those with her at time were reported to be shielding her at point of attack which would make her statement of "she did not fire a shot--her gun jammed" MOST highly improbable.
---and while I assume there will be a few vets reading this I have been puzzeled over a quote Jessica Lynch made in interview with Saywers and would like others thoughts.
In interview she was quoted as saying her gun jammed and she never fired a shot. It is my opinion it would be "highly unusual for a solider to go into combat zone without a shell chambered in their weapon.If the weapon jammed it would be only after the chambered round was discharged.For her statement to be correct she would have had to not have had shell chamber and after being attacked then try to chamber round--which I believe in additional statement she professed she had no desire to fire on Iraq's and also I believe those with her at time were reported to be shielding her at point of attack which would make her statement of "she did not fire a shot--her gun jammed" MOST highly improbable.
actually, since it was a supply convoy they were in they probably had a full magazine inserted and the bolt was closed home on an empty chamber. Danger was not "imminent" and in a transit status so they do not want the danger of a round going off while they hit a bump.
now in a ground status in an area of imminent danger they would have a round in the chamber ready to go.
now in a ground status in an area of imminent danger they would have a round in the chamber ready to go.
Thanks Marine I thought that may be a possibilty--but I still think odds of inserting shell in cold chamber would be much less likely to jam than hot gas ejecting shells. Any thoughts.
While I agree with you DTB, the whole thing sounds fishy, I wasnt there and can't make an educated guess...
But she may not have pulled the charging handle all the way back and a round never even loaded or tried to load, or got stuck halfway because she didnt pull back the charging handle enough. Or, hey maybe she got a case of "buck fever" and loaded a round, but never clicked off the safety in the confusion that follows with incoming fire?
Maybe she didnt adequately clean her rifle at all and there was sand and grit stuck in the bolt that prevented it from firing. Which, given the region they were in, is a very real possibility.
But she may not have pulled the charging handle all the way back and a round never even loaded or tried to load, or got stuck halfway because she didnt pull back the charging handle enough. Or, hey maybe she got a case of "buck fever" and loaded a round, but never clicked off the safety in the confusion that follows with incoming fire?
Maybe she didnt adequately clean her rifle at all and there was sand and grit stuck in the bolt that prevented it from firing. Which, given the region they were in, is a very real possibility.
......................................DOGS THAT BARK said:
DTB
Sorry if I rant a little here but you sound condescending to me.
To read and hear what she has gone through some don't classify her as a war hero and undeserving of such status.
She was there dude in the middle of Iraq, fighting and serving her country just like the best Green Beret or Spec Ops do every day.
Yeh maybe she didnt have a round chambered. Big fawking deal.
If I was there in that vehicle I would have shielded her. Hell yeh.
I would have died for any of my buddys in there with me. Thats what you sign up to do. You complete the mission at all costs.
And alot did die in that vehicle that was ambushed behind enemy lines.
Then Jessica Lynch was captured by the enemy and endured rape to within a inch of her life. Sustaining broken bones and injuries inflicted that would take her months to recover from.
Not to mention the emotional things she will be dealing with the rest of her days.
Laying in the hospital in Iraq guarded by these Saddam henchmen and not knowing if she would live or die or ever see her family again.
Don't say another bad word about this Jessica Lynch.
Just stand up and ****ing salute this Jessica Lynch like I am doing right now.
KOD
You almost made me cry with pride, Scotty.
Anyways,
This 'rifle jammed' stuff got even more strange on 60 Minutes last night. They did a piece on a PFC Miller, who was in that convoy and he took out a mortar position and 6 or 7 iraqi's at that postion, which was only about 25 yards away.
In the story, not only did Lynch's rifle supposedly jam, but so did 2 others (who were captured) and so did this PFC Millers. He said he had to bang the rifle hard on the ground between each shot.
So, of the four survivors of that ambush, all four had jammed rifles? Now, marine is surely correct about the sand and grime, etc, but man, 4 out of 4? I doubt it.
Anyways,
This 'rifle jammed' stuff got even more strange on 60 Minutes last night. They did a piece on a PFC Miller, who was in that convoy and he took out a mortar position and 6 or 7 iraqi's at that postion, which was only about 25 yards away.
In the story, not only did Lynch's rifle supposedly jam, but so did 2 others (who were captured) and so did this PFC Millers. He said he had to bang the rifle hard on the ground between each shot.
So, of the four survivors of that ambush, all four had jammed rifles? Now, marine is surely correct about the sand and grime, etc, but man, 4 out of 4? I doubt it.
My Rifle: The Creed of a US Marine
by Major General William H. Rupertus (USMC, Ret.)
(written following the attack on Pearl Harbor)
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We
are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!
by Major General William H. Rupertus (USMC, Ret.)
(written following the attack on Pearl Harbor)
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We
are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!
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Do you really know what it's like to wake up in the morning and be absolutely ecstatic that you're still alive? After spending every nighttime minute staring into the darkness trying to separate the moonlight shadows from a possible sapper attacking your position. The golden sun signifies the end to another night that you have survived. You're alive, and it feels damn good just to be covered in the cool breeze and the morning glow.
Sunset spells the death of a day. It's also a beginning. Time to get started. Fire missions, guard duty, restless sleep, mid-rats, flares, H&Is all fill the night. You've got a lot of time to think at night. Think too much and you'll loose your mind. Night is a time to get busy so you won't think or fall asleep at the wrong time. Fear helps. It gives you an edge to keep you alert. You just have to learn how to use it.
Sunset spells the death of a day. It's also a beginning. Time to get started. Fire missions, guard duty, restless sleep, mid-rats, flares, H&Is all fill the night. You've got a lot of time to think at night. Think too much and you'll loose your mind. Night is a time to get busy so you won't think or fall asleep at the wrong time. Fear helps. It gives you an edge to keep you alert. You just have to learn how to use it.
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ah yes, the Rifleman's Creed...
I remember back in boot camp our Drill Instructors made us memorize for a solid week until we could recite it ver batum without hesitation.
Then..
They told us to never EVER say any part of it again because it was the dumbest thing they had ever heard.
I remember back in boot camp our Drill Instructors made us memorize for a solid week until we could recite it ver batum without hesitation.
Then..
They told us to never EVER say any part of it again because it was the dumbest thing they had ever heard.
The Meaning of IS
By
Lance Corporal John C.Calhoun
Written By Ed Driscoll
Our training had just ended. Our training had just begun. In a few months some of us would be dead, others crippled and seriously injured. In the parking lot below the barracks waited the wives, girl friends and beloved family members of the young marines who in a few days would be fighting for the freedom of a people they did not know in the remote jungles of South Vietnam. We were from all over the United States but those marines who had loved ones close enough had this one last chance to have one last weekend together before we left. The marine barracks was old but spotless. There were four squad bays in the barracks. All squad bays had been released except ours. The order had been given that we would not be released until Lance Corporal John Calhoun?s stolen wallet was returned.
Staging Battalion was lonely duty. It was final training before we left for South Vietnam. We came and left not as members of a marine unit but as individuals. We were all marines but were together for only a few weeks. We were trained by Vietnam veterans. Some had long ghostly silent stares. All had the desire to give us the skills needed to come home alive. Unlike boot camp we were not harassed. We were treated with the respect we had earned in becoming Unites States Marines. In boot camp we learned to shoot straight. Here, we learned to shoot fast from the hip at pop up targets as we walked along dirt trails. We learned how to avoid capture if separated from our unit, how to trap and kill food. We learned how to identify east then travel south so as to stay out of North Vietnam.
But, the most important thing we learned in boot camp and had reinforced at every duty station was that the actions of one could get many killed. Therefore, we understood that while it seemed totally unfair to the non-military minds of the loved ones waiting in the parking lot on this beautiful California day, we were going nowhere until Lance Corporal Calhoun?s stolen wallet was returned.
Wisdom prevailed. The thief did not have to confess. The wallet could show up in the head or in any common area. The order was it had to be returned. The method of the return was not specified. Tension mounted as the hours passed. The heels of boots hit the clean polished floor just a little harder as if troops were marching. The squad bay doors swung open with more force than necessary as marines entered and exited. The sudden sound of footlockers slamming shut, punctuated the passing minutes. We all wanted to be released for the weekend but those with loved ones in the parking lot were really uptight.
John Calhoun was my best friend. We left for basic training from the South Boston train station and had been together ever since, partly because his name began with C and mine with D and the importance of order, partly because of chance, but mostly because we grew to love each other. It was not how much money I had but how much we had. Not what I was going to do but what we were going to do. Not if I was going to pass inspection but were we going to pass. Therefore, we volunteered for Vietnam. John was an award winning artist, a gentle marine.
He was a squared away marine. He always had starched utilities and spit shined boots. John Calhoun loved the Marine Corps.
John was not comfortable at the center of this problem. His face usually happy showed the stress. His shoulders usually straight slumped forward. Though he had searched his locker a number of times, he searched again. This time he pulled his duffel bag out of the locker and placed it on the floor. When the bag hit the floor his wallet appeared in the back of his locker. I told him his wallet must have been returned. He did not even look at me. I said, John, don?t be foolish your wallet has been returned. His shoulders regained their marine posture. He walked with purpose toward the sergeant in charge. The sergeant yelled, ?Listen up Lance Corporal Calhoun has something to say to you all?. John spoke softly but deliberately. ?My name is Lance Corporal Calhoun. It is my fault you have not been released for the past two hours. I found my wallet. It was in my locker. I am sorry. I will be here in the barracks if any of you want to talk to me more about this. I am very sorry?. No one could have put a hand on John Calhoun that day. We all knew what we had seen
By
Lance Corporal John C.Calhoun
Written By Ed Driscoll
Our training had just ended. Our training had just begun. In a few months some of us would be dead, others crippled and seriously injured. In the parking lot below the barracks waited the wives, girl friends and beloved family members of the young marines who in a few days would be fighting for the freedom of a people they did not know in the remote jungles of South Vietnam. We were from all over the United States but those marines who had loved ones close enough had this one last chance to have one last weekend together before we left. The marine barracks was old but spotless. There were four squad bays in the barracks. All squad bays had been released except ours. The order had been given that we would not be released until Lance Corporal John Calhoun?s stolen wallet was returned.
Staging Battalion was lonely duty. It was final training before we left for South Vietnam. We came and left not as members of a marine unit but as individuals. We were all marines but were together for only a few weeks. We were trained by Vietnam veterans. Some had long ghostly silent stares. All had the desire to give us the skills needed to come home alive. Unlike boot camp we were not harassed. We were treated with the respect we had earned in becoming Unites States Marines. In boot camp we learned to shoot straight. Here, we learned to shoot fast from the hip at pop up targets as we walked along dirt trails. We learned how to avoid capture if separated from our unit, how to trap and kill food. We learned how to identify east then travel south so as to stay out of North Vietnam.
But, the most important thing we learned in boot camp and had reinforced at every duty station was that the actions of one could get many killed. Therefore, we understood that while it seemed totally unfair to the non-military minds of the loved ones waiting in the parking lot on this beautiful California day, we were going nowhere until Lance Corporal Calhoun?s stolen wallet was returned.
Wisdom prevailed. The thief did not have to confess. The wallet could show up in the head or in any common area. The order was it had to be returned. The method of the return was not specified. Tension mounted as the hours passed. The heels of boots hit the clean polished floor just a little harder as if troops were marching. The squad bay doors swung open with more force than necessary as marines entered and exited. The sudden sound of footlockers slamming shut, punctuated the passing minutes. We all wanted to be released for the weekend but those with loved ones in the parking lot were really uptight.
John Calhoun was my best friend. We left for basic training from the South Boston train station and had been together ever since, partly because his name began with C and mine with D and the importance of order, partly because of chance, but mostly because we grew to love each other. It was not how much money I had but how much we had. Not what I was going to do but what we were going to do. Not if I was going to pass inspection but were we going to pass. Therefore, we volunteered for Vietnam. John was an award winning artist, a gentle marine.
He was a squared away marine. He always had starched utilities and spit shined boots. John Calhoun loved the Marine Corps.
John was not comfortable at the center of this problem. His face usually happy showed the stress. His shoulders usually straight slumped forward. Though he had searched his locker a number of times, he searched again. This time he pulled his duffel bag out of the locker and placed it on the floor. When the bag hit the floor his wallet appeared in the back of his locker. I told him his wallet must have been returned. He did not even look at me. I said, John, don?t be foolish your wallet has been returned. His shoulders regained their marine posture. He walked with purpose toward the sergeant in charge. The sergeant yelled, ?Listen up Lance Corporal Calhoun has something to say to you all?. John spoke softly but deliberately. ?My name is Lance Corporal Calhoun. It is my fault you have not been released for the past two hours. I found my wallet. It was in my locker. I am sorry. I will be here in the barracks if any of you want to talk to me more about this. I am very sorry?. No one could have put a hand on John Calhoun that day. We all knew what we had seen
Nice Job Scott
Didn't know I said a bad word about her. I do not know any facts yet and I am curious to a lot of things if I may be so.
1st I'll will take my hats off to any one that serves and especially in hostile enviroment.
Now let me pose this question to you if I may.
You have 4 people in fox hole and grenade is tossed in and three try to run and one dives on it giving his life to save the others,which is the hero?
---are those that were unfortunate victims that resided in the twin towers that scrambled to escape equally as heroic as those that went in to save them?
We all have are opinions and I respect yours but apparantly we have different views of the noun hero,which doesn't make either of us wrong.
and on your statement: "If I was there in that vehicle I would have shielded her. Hell yeh.
I would have died for any of my buddys in there with me."
Let me say this You won't know what you would do till you are confronted with that situation---but I would venture to say most would do a lot more than they ever thought they were capable of when the time comes---but not all.
Now I personally do not think she (or any women,should have been put in a combat situation. It was tragic what she had to endure so my intent is not to diss her.
There are many things that are very intrigueing about this.
You mentioned rape.We have 3 distinct reports, she say she doesn't know-the doctor there says no-her attorney and parents said yes but I can not find a doctor who verified it. Can you? I am just curious was she or wasn't she?
---and if her experiences there are worth a million how much do the ones that die there deserve or the others that were prisonors and rescued or the guy that sacrifices his life so his comrades can live,or those that spent years as prisonor of war?
I have lots of questions but few answers yet. My initial question on the gun was not to diminish her tragedy but to distinguish if I can assume I can take what shes says in future at face value and before you jump on me about that it is not that I think she would deliberately lie,but how people perceive things in those circumstances are often clouded and she herself admits she remembers little---and I know a little history of the co-author of her book and I'm expecting the worse.
Didn't know I said a bad word about her. I do not know any facts yet and I am curious to a lot of things if I may be so.1st I'll will take my hats off to any one that serves and especially in hostile enviroment.
Now let me pose this question to you if I may.
You have 4 people in fox hole and grenade is tossed in and three try to run and one dives on it giving his life to save the others,which is the hero?
---are those that were unfortunate victims that resided in the twin towers that scrambled to escape equally as heroic as those that went in to save them?
We all have are opinions and I respect yours but apparantly we have different views of the noun hero,which doesn't make either of us wrong.
and on your statement: "If I was there in that vehicle I would have shielded her. Hell yeh.
I would have died for any of my buddys in there with me."
Let me say this You won't know what you would do till you are confronted with that situation---but I would venture to say most would do a lot more than they ever thought they were capable of when the time comes---but not all.
Now I personally do not think she (or any women,should have been put in a combat situation. It was tragic what she had to endure so my intent is not to diss her.
There are many things that are very intrigueing about this.
You mentioned rape.We have 3 distinct reports, she say she doesn't know-the doctor there says no-her attorney and parents said yes but I can not find a doctor who verified it. Can you? I am just curious was she or wasn't she?
---and if her experiences there are worth a million how much do the ones that die there deserve or the others that were prisonors and rescued or the guy that sacrifices his life so his comrades can live,or those that spent years as prisonor of war?
I have lots of questions but few answers yet. My initial question on the gun was not to diminish her tragedy but to distinguish if I can assume I can take what shes says in future at face value and before you jump on me about that it is not that I think she would deliberately lie,but how people perceive things in those circumstances are often clouded and she herself admits she remembers little---and I know a little history of the co-author of her book and I'm expecting the worse.
All i said was HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARINES, Stand by that to us all now can i get a drink. GOOD LUCK TO US ALL AND BLESS THE ONES THAT ARE NO LONGER WITH US!!! SEMPER FIDELIS!!!!
oorah you old goat, and happy birthday to you, and us, and my father, uncle, and three more generations of fathers and uncles.and now i say god bless them all and i'll have my drink also. semper fi.
God bless the marines serving our country!!! I have a good friend there, those people are the real heroes in this country, and should be commended for their efforts, it makes everything else seem trivial. I was reading the USA today about how many soldiers went through trauma and depression because of the war, it was tough to read, god bless america and all the great men and women fighting for our country, that is the bottom line, and let them be remembered tomorrow on Veterans day, and every other day
Mike
Mike
