Have the Pistons "dominated" the Lakers? Maybe

[Scott4USC]

I am going to chime in on this Laker/Detroit series talk. Take a look at the FG% and Free throws pts made by each team.

Game 4
Pistons shot 42% 28pts (free throws) +17pt advantage
Lakers shot 42% 11pts

Game 3
Pistons 40% 21pts (free throws) +13pt advantage
Lakers 36% 8pts

Game 2
Pistons 39% 21pts (free throws) +4pt advantage
Lakers 47% 17pts

Game 1
Pistons 46% 21pts (free throws) +7pt advantage
Lakers 39% 14pts

I think without the free throw disparity, this series is about even, maybe slight edge to lakers. However no doubt the Pistons are more aggressive so they should have more free throws. But this big of a disparity? :shrug:

Then if you think about it more, Lakers role players have not really played well. Anybody can see that the role players usually are missing open shots. Tonight for example, anybody remember in the 4th quarter Walton and Fox missing back to back open treys? Make those Lakers prob. win. Or how about Payton missing his open treys tonight. The Laker role players have to be held accountable, but they have never really produced (except Rush 1 game, Walton 1 game, and Fisher 1 game). Am I right?

Kobe is getting defended extremely well by Detroit. I am huge Kobe fan, and I think he has 2 choices. Take the tough/impossible shots or dump it to Shaq. He cannot dish out to the pathetic role players because they continue to fail. I do not understand why the Lakers in this series do not go to Shaq every single time down the court. Puzzles me. Shaq has been playing excellent and I am not a huge Shaq fan.

Huge Turning Point in the Game
Lakers down by six. Rip Hamilton reaches in and Payton got the foul. Detroit was in the penalty if the call had been on Hamilton and Payton had made the two free throws then the Lakers would have trailed by only four. Instead on the next possesion Kobe (does the same thing as Hamilton) gets called for the reach in and sends Billups to the foul line. He also complains and gets a Technical. Instead of trailing by four, the Lakers trailed by nine late. That was the game.

In my opinion the Lakers do not deserve to win this series. The Pistons are better, more talented, more disciplined, and are playing with more heart. I do not like seeing the huge foul disparity (tonight was NBA finals record for foul disparity) but Pistons are the more aggressive team. Free throws are the #1 thing deciding this series and I think some calls are legitimate and others not. I think the Pistons are getting away with a little too much or Lakers not getting away with anything. #2 thing deciding this game is rebounding and hustling. #3 is coaching. I have never been a Phil Jackson fan. Wish he would leave Lakers. (although thanks for the 3 rings) I was hoping Byron Scott would be hired. He would use Kobe the best to his talents. You would see Lakers running up and down the court pushing the ball. What team hurt the Pistons when they pushed the ball? Nets. Pistons only defended the Nets well when they made shots. Payton is worthless but in one way Jackson is not max. Paytons talent. Why did Jackson give the ok to sign Payton? Who knows. Jackson rode Kobe and Shaq?s talent long enough. It is time for him to go. He never gets his team to play hard every night and that is what I hate most about him.

With the exception of Shaq, this entire Laker organization should hang their head for their horrific effort in this series. Phil Jackson has not had one answer for Detroit's defense. He has not made ANY adjustments from game to game. He has not tried anything different to counter them. That is what a coach is supposed to do. He has failed big time in my opinion.

I welcome any replies to anyone who wants to discuss game or series. I think the Lakers are going to win game 5. In order for Lakers to win game 5, some role player needs to get hot behind the arc. I am betting it will be Fisher or Payton. Payton I think played well tonight except for shooting behind the arc. Kobe will def. shoot better and Shaq has been playing great. This Laker team will not quit. I had Lakers for series and knew after game 2 I needed to hedge and took Pistons in 5 +850 and Pistons in 6 +1100 so I am lucky to salvage my big Lakers series bet. I think I may bet Lakers +pts and ML for game 5. Plus I am huge Laker fan and anytime I get Lakers +pts in must win game I am gonna throw little something on it. I am still kicking myself for not betting on lakers to win series vs Spurs after they lost first 2 games @ SA and coming back to LA. Never count the Lakers out although things look very bad for the purple and gold.

I can only hope for a Laker win because I win more money if Pistons win in 6!!!!! If it comes back to LA, who knows what can happen although Pistons proved they can compete in LA.

 

[maverick2112]

I agree the fouls on the surface look uneven.........but I challenge any Laker fan to debate me this

THE LAKERS HAVE 1 GUY AND A 1/2 TO GET FOUL CALLS........THATS IT....SHAQ(1) AND KOBE(1/2).......1/2 BECAUSE HE RARELY GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE RIM.......BECAUSE HE IS SETTLING FORJUMP SHOTS AND BECAUSE DETROITS HELP DEFENSE IS DOING A GOOD JOB STOPPING PENETRATION........WHO ELSE IS A THREAT ON THE LAKERS TO DRIVE TO THE BUCKET..........NO ONE..........

NOW LOOK AT THE PISTONS.......

THE WALLACES.........HALF THE TIME THE ARE GETTING THE BALL SO DEEP ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MAKE A 2 STEP DRIVE AND THEY ARE AT THE BUCKET......

BILLUPS...........HE HAS DRIVEN AROUND PAYTON SO MUCH ALL I CAN SEE IS PEYTONS HEAD SPINNING

PRINCE.......THAT CLEVER LEFTY LAYUP HAS BEEN SWEET

RIP...........I HAVE SEEN HIM SHOOT NUMEROUS LAYUPS IN THIS SERIES

CAMPBELL.........EVEN HE IS POSTING LOW AND DRIVING


SO THATS LIKE 6 GUYS WHO ARE PENETRATING OR AT LEAST POSTING CLOSE TO THE HOOP VS. THE 1 1/2 FOR THE LAKERS

NOW WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO GET MORE CALLS........

WHO ON THE LAKERS IS EVEN A THREAT TO DRIVE.......
FOX
FISHER
MEDVEDENKO
PAYTON
MALONE
RUSH
WALTON
GEORGE...........NOW EVEN THE MOST LOYAL LAKER FAN HAS TO ADMIT WHEN THESE GUYS ARE EVEN GETTING THE BALL THEY LOOK SO SCARED AND LOST THEY ARE ONLY WORRIED ABOUT GETTING IT TO SHAQ OR KOBE...............THATS WHY DETROIT IS GETTING MORE CALLS BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE AGRESSIVE PLAYERS AT THE MOMENT NOT TO MENTION GUYS LIKE BILLUPS, HAMILTON, R.WALLACE AND PRINCE HAVE PRETTY GOOD OUTSIDE SHOTS SO THE LAKERS HAVE TO INCH UP ON THEM AND TAKE AWAY THE OUTSIDE SHOT WHICH OPENS THE DRIVING LANES AND ALSO THE LAKERS INTERIOR DEFENSE IS PRETTY COMICAL AT THE MOMENT............

 

[maverick2112]

I had Lakers for series and knew after game 2 I needed to hedge and took Pistons in 5 +850 and Pistons in 6 +1100

Hate to rain on your parade but what if the Pistons win in 7

 

[Scott4USC]

maverick2112

I agree with what you wrote. Especially pointing out the Pistons have many more players attacking the rim. I agree Pistons deserve to go to the line more, but not 2-3 times more. The fouls I am concerned with are the non shooting fouls. Touch fouls. A lot of them are ridiculous. If you watch Kobe on the other end, Pistons players are constantly hitting him or holding him. Kobe for some odd reason is getting no calls in this game/series. Yet in every series in his career he always got to the line. This is the only series where Shaq and Kobe are not going to the line. But if you watched Detroit play against Nets/Pacers, the officials called fouls on Detroit. But not now. You can even see on the court Shaq and Kobe complaining.

You are def. right about the role players not deserving of any shooting fouls. ZIP! They never do anything off the dribble. Lakers are the only team to have role players who have zero offensive game. However, they should not getting called on touch fouls expecially when Pistons are getting away touching the Lakers on defense.

I have to give the refs some credit they started calling fouls on Detroit when the Lakers were down by ten with two minutes left. Tried to even things up I guess.

Did anyone find it funny Kobe hardly speaks to the Ref and got a T, but when Rasheed screams on top of his lungs and makes those faces etc.. he got nothing. Didn't quite understand that.

If Lakers somehow get it to game 7, I will have a decision to make. Either bet Detroit +5 or +8 whatever the pts are. OR take Detroit ML +300 or +400 whatever they are. Easily can hedge if it comes to that point. What I was planning on doing was taking Detroit to win series if they lost tonight, or maybe take Detroit to win series in 7 games if they lose on tues. night. Might get +600 on that. No way I come out a big loser because I was smart to hedge after game 2. Although if Detroit wins in 5 that is worst scenario for me. Maybe forgot to explain that I also had Lakers to win Championship even odds for $1500. So that helps me out a ton in hedging.

 

[Scott4USC]

I wish we had a chance to see the Pistons win fair and square.

The Eastern Conference is generally viewed as non competitive with the West, diluting the appeal of the finals. If you want to hold onto a conspiracy theory, it would be that this is an attempt to revive the finals as a contest.

When you go 14 minutes and score 2 baskets and get 12 of your 16 points from the line, you are being carried by officiating.

I do not think that the refs are determining this series. I do think they are calling them one sided. And I will make some observations about officiating and the Lakers.

First, Kobe has never gotten the kind of "Jordan rules" that other superstars have always enjoyed. Magic got them, Bird got them, but not Kobe. I don't know why that is but many times he has driven into the lane over the years just to get a foul and wound up on his ass with no whistle, to the point I thought he was dense for even trying.

Second, the refs have had a real short trigger with the Lakers for calling the T's this playoff. Usually they have come at critical times. Does anyone remember when GP was jawing at the guy from Minnesota? He gets the T, but when Rasheed does the same to Slava it's a double T. How about Phil leaving the coaches box? Is it legal for Larry Brown to hit the floor during play?

Detroit is winning the series, refs or no. I do not think the calls have been even, however.

 

[UThinkImCrazy]

Lakers CLEARLY is the better team here BUT Lots of time better team lose BIG . Dont ask me WHY ..... You should know why ..... out side factors...........so Im taking det to win the Final . GL my friend ... go with it before too late .

 

[Bombs]

You are crazy - Lakers the better team here?

 

[bett4u]

No Doubt

No Doubt

There's no doubt that the fouls are ridiculous. Like I said, the Pistons have been in the bonus EVERY game in at least one quarter with less than 3 minutes expired in the quarter. Those are NOT driving fouls the Pistons force. It's impossible for any team to get into the bonus that quick all by shooting fouls. As a matter of fact last night, the first was a shooting foul and EVERY other foul to get the Pistons to the bonus was away from the ball or touch fouls. Yes, the Pistons deserve to go to the line when they drive, but don't tell me they got into the bonus in 2 minutes by driving the ball to the hoop. That's impossible and the proofs in the pudding. How do you explain the fact that over half the fouls in the entire series called on the Lakers has been NON SHOOTING fouls? You can't. Away from the ball fouls are all perceptions of what refs see. Lets not have our heads buried in the sand and act as if the Pistons are all of a sudden so offensive minded that they go to the line 41 times ? Gimme a break. Bottom line- Yes, the Pistons are taking to the Lakers in every aspect of the game, but with the aid of refs also. Are the refs determining the outcomes? I admit and will say no. I admit the Pistons are better than our Lakers. There has been nothing done by the Lakers to even think they have a chance to turn this around. There's no silver lining in the sky. I hope people don't do the Yankee chase like last year when people kept betting on the Yanks versus the Marlins hoping the Yanks would definitely come back and win. This is your money. In the stock markets they say don't ever fall so much in love with a stock or you'll lose. Same goes here. At what point will it take for people to understand it's over. I think people will keep burning money on the Lakers till Detroit wins it. There has to be a point where you actually base the games on what's happening and not your heart. Two players cannot beat an entire team. Lakers role players were huge this playoff run, but the Pistons have shut them all down. If our Lakers have a chance then Kobe has to have a Michael Jordan performance. It's obvious. Kobe needs to score at least 30 and Shaq get his 35. But, I'd say Kobe needs to score around 40 tomorrow and Shaq around 30. It's proven that Shaq scoring a ton of points is not effecting the outcomes. Kobe needs to be the best player in the world. If he continues to get stopped by Prince then the game will be a joke and so will Kobe's chance of being the next Jordan. I don't wanna hear all of a sudden Prince is King defense. He's not. All we hear now is how long Prince is. Bull shit. If Kobe had ANY post game, it'd be a mismatch. Prince is very weak and fraile. Reminds me several years back when Tyron Lue was here with the Lakers and he did some nice defense versus Allen Iverson. Everyone was making excuses for Iverson that Lue plays great D, etc. That was a joke and so is this. Kobe Bryant's offensive skills are far superior to Prince's defensive skills. So Kobe needs to step up. He is playing confused mostly cause he has never seen so many double teams ever in his life. That's their only chance. If you think Kobe gets 40 tomorrow than keep betting the Lakers, but statistics don't like. The team leading 3-1 is 27-0 in going on to win the title. A perfect 100%. The smart bet would be to keep money lining the Pistons till they win. That is a 100% angle and trend. This Laker team is not good enough to over come this. Pistons are damn good. But, the Lakers are playing without Karl Malone. You cannot ignore. I don't see why someone will bet the Lakers without Malone. They stunk last year without him and stink now without him. It's the same Laker team as last year which stunk when Malone's not on the court.

 

[shady1234]

you must have blinked when Payton put his elbow into Rip's throat on the play you referred to, watch the replay. Watch the whole game, not just the part where you think the Laker's were jobbed. Laker's are getting a prime time ass whuppin' and I love it!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Scott4USC]

bett4u

I agree with the 1st half of your post. Way too many fouls called against Lakers away from the basket which lead to Lakers getting into the penalty. Even after the penalty, still more calls against Lakers away from the basket. Kobe keeps getting fouled out there with no calls. Watch game again and focus on Kobe everytime. It is quite amazing how these officials turn the other cheek.

I think the only game Pistons dominated the Lakers was game 3. Anybody who is saying that the Pistons have dominated this series is clueless.

Kobe guaranteed a win for game 5. Not so sure that was smart idea. No way Pistons take Lakers lightly now. Maybe Kobe will play smarter in game 5, and we know he cannot shoot any worse. Are Pistons in trouble? It will be very hard for Pistons to win in LA because the role players usually play better for LA at home. Especially Walton and Rush. Shaq in media said pressure is all on the Pistons and Shaq was saying he expects a win for game 5. Lakers still have not had complete game offensively so no way you can count them out of this series.

 

[OnaJ]

Anybody who is saying that the Pistons have dominated this series is clueless.

Scott you have said some ridiculous things before but this might take the prize. The Lakers have been outplayed in EVERY SINGLE AREA possible. Starters. Bench. Coaching. Hustle. Intensity. Rebounding. No wonder LA people get the reputation of low intelligence sports fans.

 

[ezpickin]

Onaj,

Don't try to argue with an idiot...those that don't know better sometimes can't tell the difference! :lol2 :lol2 :lol2

 

[Scott4USC]

OnaJ

Pistons may have outplayed the Lakers in "multiple" areas, but that does not mean they dominated the series. They dominated game 3 and that is it. (your confusing dominating with beating) That is the sad thing about this finals. Pistons would be in a world of hurt without the huge free throw disparity. And that is including the injuries to Lakers and the struggling Kobe. Take away the injuries for Lakers and keep the free throw disparity, I think Lakers would be up 3-1. Wouldn't you agree? Fisher was playing great ball before twisting his knee and Malone suffered serious injury (no depth at PF). Paytons injury I am not sure holds any credibility. (think it is excuses)

ezpickin :nono:

Thanks for displaying your lack of maturity.

 

[Bombs]

Free throws and fouls ARE PART OF THE GAME.

You can't expect 50/50 or even 75/20 when you ONLY SHOOT OUTSIDE SHOTS.

Not to mention you get 2 and 3 chances with offensive boards.

And as for the Pistons having trouble winning in LA, did you watch games 1 and 2????

 

[Bombs]

Fisher would have limited impact here, he cannot matchup against the Pistons, period.

All I hear on here from Lakers backers are excuses, excuses. Sometimes, you just have to let it go. Just going to cost yourself more money lying to yourself.

 

[OnaJ]

Scott right now you are just grasping at straws right now.

At least with your pro USC talk you are at least defending a team that is undoubtedly a very good team.

The fact is that the Lakers are so incredibly overrated that you are trying to convince yourself that the Lakers have not been getting their asses kicked. The Free Throw excuse is just that, an excuse. If the Lakers losing by 12, 20, and 8 isn't dominating I am not sure what is. Just quit before you lose all your credibility. At least with the Trojans you are talking about a good team.

I think everyone else in the country has admitted this series has been a mismatch in favor of DET except for the Lakers delusional fans.

DET is laying it on the Lakers this series and their D is suffocating.

You talk about "what ifs".

Well what IF Kobe doesn't hit a few miracle 3's as the shot clock has been winding down in a couple of these games. These games would have gotten even worse because at least for the time being, some of those prayers stopped DET runs and momentum.

 

[maverick2112]

Take away the injuries for Lakers and keep the free throw disparity, I think Lakers would be up 3-1. Wouldn't you agree?

You better qiut smoking whatever it is you are smoking...................Even if Malone was at full strength the Lakers would be very fortunate to be in this series...................LAST TIME I CHECKED YOU CANT USE 2 INJURIES AS EXCUSES FOR YOU TEAM GIVING UP A WOPPING 32 POINTS IN A VERY IMPORTANT 4TH QUARTER

You guys making all of these excuses better have a reason for me when Buss dismantles this team after this season..............I mean what multi-million dollar owner would blow up a teams due to injuries and a poor officiated series......................Buss will blow up this team because only 2 guys can play then rest cant