"He should apologize."

[Eddie Haskell]

Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but, I recalled Wayne (aka Dogs that Bark) commenting on how "...vets from all wars hate Kerry and rightfully so." In support thereof Wayne did a Wayne and posted the above link as bona fide, fair and unbiased, support for his position attacking Kerry's war record and supporting the Bushmans military record and Cheney's "I've got more important things to do" military record.

Wayno's author (Michael Benge) rang a bell in the deep, cob webbed caverns of the Edsters mind. So little Ed, being the good little lawyer that he is, googlized this fair and unbiased authors name and lo and behold what did I come up with. Appartently Mr. Benge is one of the founders of Viet Nam Veterans Against Kerry. A quick review of their website reveals that Mr. Benge's thought processes revel those of our very own Dr. Freeze.

Seems as though Senator McCain called Mr. Benge's cofounder of the aforementioned website "... one of the most dispicable people I ever had the misfortune to encounter." Senator McCain considers Mr. Sampley a "fraud".... who preys on the hopes of servicemen for his own profit". Actually sounds like quite a good republican to me. Messers. Bush and Cheney must be so proud.

The mere fact of this smear campaign against the war record of John Kerry and the silent acquiesence of the Bush administration speaks volumes.

Eddie

 

[shamrock]

I really didn't know anything about the above connection. But I did jump in commenting earlier because as I said, I have personally seen with my own eyes how Vietnam veterans react regarding Senator Kerry, long before the attention and smear tactics of this presidential race started. Both in the VA HOSPITAL I resided in & at no fewer than probably a dozen events over the last decade, I have seen all veterans act overwhelmingly positive towards the Senator.

Again being that Vietnam was perhaps the most divisional period of our countries history regarding opinions does this mean every single veteran likes Senator Kerry, of course not. But I have personally witnessed more than not greet him as a friend. I can also guarantee no American politician, possibly even McCain himself has gone further in working with Vietnam & Cambodia trying to get MIA & POW REMAINS returned to their families. He was over there several times during the 80s & 90s working on this when 95% of the politicians in Washington could care less. This is why McCain considers Kerry a close friend. And although you will probably never see a Kerry/McCain ticket, you will never see McCain back stab or insult Kerry the way Bush and his boy Rove analyst attacked McCain. Political bias or not, McCain has way to much class.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

1st of all the most courageous act Kerry has done I can see, is after 3 scratches to escape Nam he would even go into VA hospital and visit wounded. If there are any resouces showing political affiliations after Nov I would wager around 70% of military active and retired vote conservative.

Per your quote Edward

"By the way. Whats wrong with the truth about Viet Nam. It was a bad war, like this one is, and Americans did commit atrocities. If I were Kerry, I wouldn't have backed off those words he said in the 70's. This scumbag in DC should be in jail."

Thats what I like. a forum clown who has stated would rather his children be deserters than soildiers and some Navy patrol boat captain (Kerry) who three purple hearts can be fixed with band aids and as in my past assesments which I'd be happy tp rehash as strickly bogus record on other decorations.

I think I can justly have the right to question Kerry since my time was spent in jungles of Viet Nam and Cambodia with elements that he says committed these atrocities.Considering also the fact his time in country was less than 4 months on a boat, and I was there over a year(voluntarily extended) since he received bandaid sctratches and I spent about time in hospital on 2 occasions.
The closest thing I ever saw to an atrocity committed by an American soilder was a Viet Cong cook coming down trail that was unarmed got shot with rest of his patoon in fire fight.
I did see villages of friendly get hit with short rds but also saw U.S. troops hit with same.
You could never fathom what occurs in war Edward and never will.While I am not naive to think atrocities did not occur I am here tell you they are the exception not the rule.

Soilders are just like people you meet every day-some assholes-some compassionate ect.
I've seen as many occasions of soilders not wanting to shoot at enemy in self defense than I have seen soilders looking for someone to fire up.

Evryone needs to step into a soilders shoes just once--and to be quite honest Edward I think you would surprise yourself at the courage you would have.

 

[shamrock]

hey dogs...as I have always said to every VETERAN I have ever met regardless of rank, service time, combat or not, opinions, beliefs, political thoughts or anything else.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND UNSELFISHNESS

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Nice non-response, Wayno.

Once again, you cite as support for your tenous position some psycho ultra right wing wacko group who the straightest shooter in the Senate calls "dispicable" and a "fraud".

Lets take your own words and put them into action, spindoctor. You said if we want the "lowdown on what happened in the bush in Viet Nam" why don't we ask someone whose been there. I'll take you up on that Mr. Republican.

First of all, I think we can safely rule out Adolph Bush and Hermann Cheney as I believe, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but somehow, someway, those two gentlemen do not have first hand experience in the "bush". The only experience they had during the Viet Nam war was for our illustrious president at some bar near a naval air base in Alabama (maybe) and for Mr. Cheney, I don't know, as he was too busy to go to Viet Nam.

I don't give a s*** if you were in the jungles of Viet Nam, Cambodia or the Amazon. Atrocities happen in war and Kerry spoke out against them. I guess you are advocating that when crimes are committed, as long as the good guys are doing them, we should shut our mouth. Although I do not agree with everything he stands for, you should be ashamed (as this thread is entitled) to attack his character especially when you consider the character of his oppenents whom you support. You are a scumbag and criminal just like your buddies in DC.

I would think that if you want to go to the horse's mouth why don't we find some links to the soldiers Kerry served with. I would think that if Kerry was merely scratched as you say AND not a hero but rather a fraud, then I would think such individuals would be the ones to talk too. Don't you, Mr. Linkmaster.

You see Doggie, I know what they will say as I saw them on a television program several weeks ago. And you want to know something further Wayne, I'll bet you know what they would say too. Since you are the master at posting links to all those fair and unbiased cites, why don't you do the whole board a big ole Kentucky favor and post a link to a cite wherein his comrades IN THE BUSH comment on his military service.

You won't because its the truth. All you do is spin for the right. You have absolutely no credibility. You support two cowards in DC and attack a legitimate war hero who risked his life, killed the enemy and choses not to talk about it today. Yes, a**hole, he did see atrocities and like most Americans came out against the war much the same way Americans today are coming out against this war.

Why does the truth bother you so much. As McCain would say about you, you are a fraud. Your president and vice presidents are also frauds.

Eddie

 

[SixFive]

Somehow, I missed this thread the first go-around.

I agree with djvs first post. Some atrocities did happen and were magnified for all the public to malign and loathe, but wtf do u think happened the the Americans who were captured out in the bush? I'm sure some of the soldiers did have an eye for an eye mentality, and it would be hard for me to blame them. These soldiers had seen and been exposed to countless civilian victims of torture, execution, and corpse defilement that often included women and children. American servicemen were tortured and mutilated (who's to say what u or I would do if we found our best buddy flayed or with his penis cut off and stuck in his mouth??). I think Senator McCain has written a book, and since most here like him, that should be a good source of info on his treatment as a POW.

Who here is putting down Kerry for serving in Vietnam?? About Kerry's service, I'm proud that he served his country. It's his activity afterwards and testimony to alleged activities by US servicemen that he had no first-hand knowledge of that I am troubled with. Like DTB said, Kerry wasn't in the bush so how would he know? If he was, he would have seen the atrocities purpotrated by the other side and these would have greatly outnumbered and troubled him far more.

If Bush was a draft-dodger, he at least was constructive with his time and learned to fly jets.

 

[shamrock]

not to be a wise ass or anything, but I believe gw training was on a obsolete fighter jet, considering Vietnam had no air force and the craft was replaced, there was 0 chance he would be of any service in Vietnam. Eventually because he refused to get a physical, he was eventually suspended. If he had gotten a physical he probably would have been trained on a more current jet, arguably this is why he avoided getting a physical. Make no mistake, gw was no 41!

 

[Chanman]

hmmmmm.

!). Great thread. Especially since it was posted by Chops, a Viet Namese American.

2). Thanx for your empirical input Shamrock. http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_bush_071304,00.html

3).

He fought and served in VietNam. Therefore he earned the right to criticize that fiasco. Until very recently the whole nation was pretty much in agreement that Vietnam was a mistake, that 58,000 American Boys like Kerry got killed in a place most called hell, fighting for all the wrong reasons. Why the change of heart?

WTF? I thought we had a Restraining Order on this guy?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

sorry to get back late but been without power for over day due to storm.
Shamrock Didn't mean to question your patriotism if it came off that way--Sorry.

Edward
"
You see Doggie, I know what they will say as I saw them on a television program several weeks ago. And you want to know something further Wayne, I'll bet you know what they would say too. Since you are the master at posting links to all those fair and unbiased cites, why don't you do the whole board a big ole Kentucky favor and post a link to a cite wherein his comrades IN THE BUSH comment on his military service".
Do you ever get tired of stepping in shit-how many do you want.
Hope this will suffice--of course I know you and your deserter/Jane Fonda commrades have more pertinent knowledge than those that were there.

http://www.swiftvets.com/Index2.htm
you can click on media for list of signers

AND---- per your quote
"As McCain would say about you, you are a fraud"
I take this rather personal and if anyone knows how to post an email I'll be MORE THAN HAPPY to scan my military record in full--while you Edward the coward will continuely hide behind your keyboard anonimously. You are the true epitome of a bonafide liberal. Talk the talk but never dare walk the walk.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Very nice. Very nice. You are a complete and total fraud. I'm glad you take it personally because you are the forum's biggest liar. You post bogus and biased links to garbage spun by the right. I repeat, you are a fraud and a very (as McCain would say) dispicable person.

You belong in some crap town like Bowling Green Kentucky you lowlife hillbilly. You could only function in some one horse bible belt toothless town like that. Who the hell spoke of anyones military record. Your transparent attempt to legitimize and add credibility to your statements by indicating that you served in the military is similar to those right wing veterans who support the coward in DC.

Speaking of me hiding behind my computer, you loser, what about your hero in DC who was hiding in some bar in Alabama during Viet Nam?????? Answer that loser. Was Bush smart????? Then I guess you were dumb for going huh. You are a fraud and a clown.

I'm not a big link guy a**hole but, maybe you would like to explain these links:

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Bronze_Star.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Personnel_Casualty_Report.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Presidential_Unit_Citation.pdf

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Recommendations_For_Next.pdf

January through Early March, 1969 ? Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta. Kerry's crew included engineman Eugene Thorson, later an Iowa cement mason; David Alston, then the crew's only African-American and today a minister in South Carolina; petty officer Del Sandusky of Illinois; rear gunner and quartermaster Michael Medeiros of California; and the late Tom Belodeau, who joined the crew fresh out of Chelmsford High School in Massachusetts. Others rotated in and out of the crew. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell."

And now you lying piece of dirt, here are the links to THOSE WHO ACTUALLY SERVED WITH KERRY, not the Bush scumballs who don't like what he said (oh yeah, the TRUTH) when he returned from Viet Nam:

Thorson says:
http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/22019554.html

Alston says:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics.../2004/02/04/kerrys_problem_with_black_voters/

Sandusky says:
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Sandusky_Interview,00.html

The above cite is especially interesting because it DOES NOT ENDORSE ANY CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT and further in that Kerrys' SHIPMATES state he saved their lives.

The following is an article from Boston Globe which I believe shows both the good and the bad concerning Kerrys record. You, and I know you will, will find the negative, take it out of context and use it to support your right wing agenda.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml

Once again you lowlife piece of crap, the foregoing are comments from those that served with Kerry not veterans who did not serve with Kerry but did not like his post war comments. As opposed to the clowns in your cite that said "I wasnt with Kerry but I imagine...... blah blah blah."

You are a fraud and I hope you take it personal because it is the truth. By the way, you are the epitome of a bonafide right wing wacko continous lying and spinning out of control.

My new motto on this board: Bush was in the bar while Kerry was in the bush. Maybe instead of going to southeast asia you should have bellied up with your cowardly hero in DC at the bar in Alabama. Loser.

And since you have posted lies, spin, and misstatements throughout your tenure at this forum, I am skeptical of your military record. Put that in the catagory of weapons of mass destruction et al. But don't hop off topic with your record. Personally I couldnt care if you sat next to Abbie Hoffman or were Sgt York. You are still a liar and a fraud.

Eddie

 

[Master Capper]

Why should he apologize? At least he served unlike certain others that hid!

 

[saint]

You are a complete and total fraud.

I'm glad you take it personally because you are the forum's biggest liar.

I repeat, you are a fraud and a very (as McCain would say) dispicable person.

You belong in some crap town like Bowling Green Kentucky you lowlife hillbilly.

You could only function in some one horse bible belt toothless town like that. You are a fraud and a clown.

I'm not a big link guy a**hole but, maybe you would like to explain these links:


Once again you lowlife piece of crap,You are a fraud and I hope you take it personal because it is the truth. By the way, you are the epitome of a bonafide right wing wacko continous lying and spinning out of control.


And since you have posted lies, spin, and misstatements throughout your tenure at this forum, I am skeptical of your military record.

You are still a liar and a fraud.

Eddie

Your true colors shining through. Your post above certainly epitomizes your signature as the "thinking member" here at MJs. It certainly shows the highest level of thinking you can attain.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Golly gee, Saint. You don't have to get so personal. However, after some introspection I find that you are right I hide behind a keyboard, I was physically and mentally abused, I'm a prick, I have a cheating ex-wife and have to pay a big alimony check and am inadequate in bed, I'm old and approaching death, I'm a friendless asshole and a dick and always put people down, and above all I blame Bush for all of the above.

You know, I'm ready to off myself. The only thing that keeps me from doing the same is I count the few blessings in my life. At least I'm not a dentist from an area of the country where teeth are at a premium and further that I don't have to look forward to 40 years of having my one hand in other peoples mouths with my other hand in the insurance companies pocket. You know its obvious from the content of your posts depicting your command of the english language that you were unable to get into medical and chiropractic school therefor the dental degree.

With the knowledge that there are people out there like you and Wayne, I know that I don't have it so bad.

Eddie

 

[ctownguy]

Saint, we all know that eddie is a mental patient that gets to use the computer a few hours a day. Just humor him, it might help with his therapy :142smilie :142lmao:

 

[twofingers]

As a vet of Vietnam, Kerry certainly had a right to be critical of America's involvement.

He did not have the right to tell horrible lies about his fellow soldiers, offer aid and comfort to the enemy, spread the enemies proganda, and extend the suffering of the POWs.

Two of the worst canidates for the presidency in the history of our country. These two make Nixon look like Lincoln in comparision.

 

[ocelot]

6-5:

Kerry did serve in the "bush". You are wrong...totally. He was not out offshore lounging on some carrier.

AND GW has NEVER had to work at a REAL job his entire life. He is as useless as tits on a bull.

 

[ctownguy]

I think you are describing blow job billie, aren't you.

 

[Master Capper]

Dogs that Bark,

While I respect your right to your opinion, I have yet to see you post any information on where Bush and Cheney were during the Vietnam war? Surely, these great WARHAWKS would of been first in line to go to Nam, why blast Kerry for actually going over to Nam and being a Patriot for the United States? While I am no fan of either Bush or Kerry it really bugs me when these guys attack Kerry for actually serving, but they never bring out the points that neither Bush nor Cheney served when they both had a opportunity! Although Kerry has a personality of dry toast surely he would be considered more of a PATRIOT using the new definition of the term as established by the Bush administration!

 

[SixFive]

6-5:

Kerry did serve in the "bush". You are wrong...totally. He was not out offshore lounging on some carrier.

Kerry was slogging through the "bush"? I thought he was an Naval Lt on a swiftboat in the Mekong Delta? Granted, lots of those guys lost their lives too, but I don't know why he would have been on land seeing civilian atrocities. Again, I'm not criticizing his service but questioning his appearance in 1971 telling about atrocities the US soldiers were committing.

 

[SixFive]

Very nice. Very nice. You are a complete and total fraud.

.

And since you have posted lies, spin, and misstatements throughout your tenure at this forum, I am skeptical of your military record. Put that in the catagory of weapons of mass destruction et al.
Eddie

First, be skeptical all u want, it's legit, I've seen the decorations and medals. I'm sure Wayne would be glad for you to see for yourself.

Eddie, I also noticed u didn't reference links from guys who served with Kerry like Bob Elder, Bill Shumadine, and Jim Zumwalt.