Heisman Trophy

[Trampled Underfoot]

Its looking like Palmer might be the way to go. As much as I hate USC I do think the trophy is going back to USC. With McGahee's performance over the weekend you cant help but think he is going to steal quite a few votes away from Dorsey (who is not even the best player on his team). Only other threat to Palmer would be Banks but I think Palmer has just been too hot down the stretch. Plus Leftwich and Johnson could take a few votes from Banks while Palmer runs away with the west vote. I dont make many prop bets but i'm going to on Palmer. Seeing some +200 right now gonna look for more.

Trampled

:director: VOTE USC

 

[Valuist]

I believe the voters casted their votes last week so whatever happened this past weekend is irrelevant. I do agree that Palmer will win; I think Banks should win but people have very short memories, and a guy gets punished because he hasn't played in 3 weeks. McGahee and Dorsey will get enough votes to cancel each other out. Johnson got almost 1/2 his yards against 3 teams and didn't do much against the Ohio States, Iowas and Michigans of the world.

 

[ZMAN]

valuist, agree banks should not be penalized for not playing last three weeks. however, look into the numbers more closely regarding l.johnson. he only played 2 qts. against those teams your talking about.in addition, rushed for 2015 yds. ninth player in div 1a to go over 2000. lead country in all-purpose yards, 2575.as for not putting up the numbers vs mich,iowa and osu, look again. psu abandoned the run trailing iowa,23-0. LJ averaged 3.8 ypc vs second ranked run def. he ran for 68 yds, caught 6 for 93 yds, scored twice. missed first qtr. vs michigan due to hamstring injury. averaged 4.6 ypc , caught 5 for 46, scored on 17 yd run, the first time he carried the ball. vs osu, psu had ball for 22.5 minutes. LJ scored only off. td of game., averaged 4.2 ypc against 4th best run def. had 98 of psu's 179 yards. trev alberts should do his ****ing homework before he shoots his mouth off with b.s.

 

[Valuist]

Took a look at Larry Johnson's numbers. The pro-LJ people point to the 2000 plus rush yards. But lets look a little deeper. It actually was 4 games (not 3 like I said earlier) where he got the bulk of his yards. 1142 yards in the games against Michigan State, Indiana, Northwestern and Illinois; certainly not the 4 best defenses in the Big 10. Take away those 4 games and he actually has less than 900 yards. There wasn't much parity in the Big 10; 4 very strong teams at the top but the bottom dwellers like NW, Indiana and Mich State were really terrible. As for the games against the strong teams, he did carry at least 15 times in each of those games so its not like he didn't get the opportunity to show what he could do. 4 yards per carry in those games is steady, but certainly not Heisman credentials.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Added a little more on Palmer at +260

Banks is the only one that scares me. Can only hope some voters have forgotten about him.

 

[pt1gard]

SINCE EVERYONE LIKES JUMPING ON lj

SINCE EVERYONE LIKES JUMPING ON lj

HE DID AVG 151.6 ALL PURPOSE YARDS IN HIS 3 "POOR" GAMES ... he sat out entire 2nd half vs mich st; 28 mins vs NW; and 4th qtr vs Illini ... he avg 8.03 ypc, eclipsing Roziers 7.8 in Heisman year, and try to tell my NB. wasnt bullying the Big 8 back then worse than Penn st supposedly played all pansies...

the great CP got his passing yards vs the flag football no D pac-10... quick name 2 good Ds in the league other than their own ... Beavs were so tuff they allowed bruins about a billion yds at reser ... when CP played his 2 tuffest defenses (Kst and WSU), USC lost and CP didnt get job done ...

Dorsey has won how many in a row and sat out many quarters himself? ...

banks might be most deserving and might get least votes

magahee might be best athlete

LJ, some NFL GMs say, will be first pick

throw darts, argue, who cares? they didnt even give arod MVP in AL ...

like william goldman said of Hollywood, "Nobody knows anything."

 

[Scott4USC]

Greg i disagree with your comment about the pac 10 D being flag football. You cannot compare defensive stats to other conferences. WHY??? Well here is why. Defenses in the Big 12 and Big 10 will have pretty good Defensive Pass Stats and rankings. WHY? Well teams in those two conferences are more run oriented teams and don't have great caliber QB's.

Pac 10 teams love to throw the ball and have excellent QB's in the pac 10. So if your facing high powered octane offenses, of course defensive stats in the pac 10 will be misleading. For example, Arizona State got creamed against Nebraska but they hve excellent stats saying their DB's did great job because nebraska is run oriented offense. Many other examples as well. If you face great QB's and great offenses and great offensive minded coaches, of course their will be high scoring games. Thats a no brainer. But does that mean they don't play defense in the pac 10???? Get real.

Look at the top QB's in the pac 10.

Palmer - awesome
Gessar- awesome
Boler- very good
Walter- very good (and will be awesome next year)
Picket- pretty good (look at his stats)
Fife- Good Qb (will be very good next year)
OSU QB- good (will be very good next year)

Most of these QB's could start on most teams in the country. Disagree????

So defenses facing these teams will be scored upon. Look at the NFL Rams last year they scored ton of pts even against great defenses. Look at Kansas City this year. So maybe the pac 10 defenses are good but just facing even better offenses. So of course their will be high scoring games and look at the national awards for defensive players. Pac 10 has their share of them!

Why is Banks most deserving? He played in Big 10 (down year for conference) and did not even face the other top team in conference. His toughest OOC game was IOWA ST. and guess what, they lost. Behing Palmer, he the the most deserving because he put Iowa on map and easily is their MVP. But lets see how well he does against a good/great defense for USC! Can't wait, and my money is on PALMER to outshine Banks!

LJ was held under 70 yard against the 3 toughest opponents. ENOUGH SAID!

Dorsey- If Heismon took into account lifetime achievments then he gets it, otherwise he be lucky to finish 3rd.

Magehee- awesome RB but he is also running behing the BEST offensive line in the nation. That helps quite a bit.

Palmer- Best stats of all contenders, played against the toughest schedule in the nation and performed to highest level against his 2 back to back rivalry games! He shredded the highly touted ND defense and has been class act his whole career!

Easy choice for me, give it to the guy who has put up the best stats, and earned those stats facing the toughest schedule POSSIBLE! No other contenders could say that.

Palmer "easily" is the most deserving, and if you disagree, please tell me why and who deserves it.

Oh yeah, i bet $900 on Palmer winning the Heismon at 3-1 odds!!!

 

[gardenweasel]

anybody BUT magahee(spelling)

anybody BUT magahee(spelling)

there are probably 2 other backs on the miami bench that could put up similar numbers with that passing game.....i shudder to think what numbers clarett puts up in a miami uniform....would have to be staggering...miami didn`t just start winning when magahee showed up....i have to say the most impressive back i saw in the second half of the season was quentin griffin...

 

[pt1gard]

Scott

Scott

you know full well Pac-10 is totally a passing league and always has been, so any QBs stats, like picketts are shaky ...

LJ had 151.6 yards whether passing running or whatever in those 3 games ... CP made some huge mistakes vs WSU or maybe theyd be in NC game and vs K St couldnt get it done either; prob didnt even need a QB in most of other games, their D carried games and he wasnt in pressure situations, when he was he was ordinary ...

The pac-10 was very weak this year, outside of WSU and USC none of the teams impressed me at all ... we all saw how bad ucla is and that they beat Beavs and UW on rd, thats about all needs to be said there

UR in love in with USC so cant see straight, hehe

to anyone else, scott and I are good pals and argue this matter daily on IMs, so no feud her

merry xmas,
gregg

 

[Scott4USC]

LOL, i liked how you told everyone we are buds. GOOD TOUCH!

Now back to the debate.

Carson Palmer did not blow the WSU game. He made 1 maybe 2 critical errors in that game. #1 he threw INT on first and goal and #2 he took that OT sack. But most trojan fans believe, including me, that Chow lost us the WSU game and Chow somewhat lost the KSU game. USC was killing WSU on the ground and chow went into a shoot out with WSU, especially after Polomolou got hurt on Defense. We needed to grind out the ball and hve ball control offense. As for KSU, you are TOTALLY wrong. USC recievers dropped at least 10 passes in that game. KSU is a top 5 team IMO and no way can you win with 10 dropped passes (5 by our freshman phenom) Is that Palmers fault? I don't think so. Even the winning drive Palmer was leading our senior reciever could not make the big catch and drive was over. Palmers fault? NO WAY!

Another thing, these 2 games your knocking Palmer for are against GREAT teams. KSU is one of the best teams in nation and WSU is top 10 team as well. Both were also away games.

I don't know why your so infatuated with Larry Johnson, the guy is an awesome running back against poor competition. STATS DON"T LIE and STATS ARE FACTS! Look them up.

This will eat you up Gregg. Larry Johnson averaged 8 yards per carry. EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE. But i have a question. With a running back who is averaging 8 yards a carry, how come Penn St. lost 3 games this year? LOL. I think you know why LJ is averaging 8 yards a carry. Thankyou Indiana, Northwestern, Michigan St., Louisiana Tech, Central Florida and prob few others who have dominating defenses. Those are world beater teams.

You keep dissing the pac 10. WHY? Pac 10 is def. the #1 or #2 conference in the nation. Look at all the great head coaches in pac 10, look at all the great QB's in the pac 10, we all beat each other up.

You say the pac 10 is weak, what conference is beter top to bottom? If there was a playoff, where would you put your money on if you had to bet which conference team would win the NC? I say USC def. is best team in nation and WSU maybe 6-10th best.

I think you need to reread my post above as to why there are so many high scoring games in the pac 10. Also, you diss a conference or player, but you have no substance to back it up. And on top of that, you don't say who is better or what conference is better.

I also forgot to tell you that Draft experts have Larry Johnson projected to be drafted #25 in the draft. You told me LJ would be top 2 draft pick.

 

[dawgball]

I would vote Banks. I feel like he has had the best season of the bunch.

Order:
Banks
Palmer
Dorsey
Johnson
McGahee

 

[z2000]

This info may help bettors win some money.

I think this may be pro-Palmer, but 10% of the votes are there for all to see. This may help with some wagers.

http://www.mandatemedia.com/heisman/

 

[ZMAN]

scott, you obviously have not watched larry johnson this year. the guy had a phenomenal year. anybody can listen to a f***ing dope like trev alberts. i watched palmer 5 or more times this year, and he was outstanding. both guys are big time worthy of award.palmers numbers were less impressive vs the better teams, as were johnsons. thats only logical. this has nothing to do w/conferences,schedules,etc. i suggest you watch some tape of johnsons games vs iowa,osu,michigan.

 

[parlayinn]

scott4usc, where did you get +300??

 

[Scott4USC]

Larry Johnson is an awesome player, wish he was a Trojan. BUT i do not think he is Heismon Trophy winner. If he rushed over 100 yards against the top 3 teams he played, then no question i would give him the trophy.

I bet $10 to win $80 a while back on palmer

I bet $300 to win $900 early this week

And $600 at 13/5 i think.

So my $900 bet was not all 3-1. WISH IT WAS

I was 70% sure Palmer wins trophy when i bet the $900, now i am around 80% sure! As long as the east coast voters keep palmer in their top 3 Palmer DEF. WILL WIN THE TROPHY.

It will be a real shame if Palmer does not win.

My big Bowl bet this year is Georgia -2.5 (bought 1/2) for $1500
I wish i got it at -1.5 when it opened and i missed out.

Another great bet is Iowa St. over Boise St. ML and +11pts But only if the weather is good.

 

[parlayinn]

where did you get 13/5 then? which book?

 

[pt1gard]

the sec and big 12 are better than pac-10

the sec and big 12 are better than pac-10

ur so in love with USC you see everything thru glasses of untruth and your version ... just like kobe debate, if he was so great why cant they win with him and not shaq ... as far as Carson palmer, the reason they didnt win is b/c he did choke in OT, took lamebrain sack and his pick inside ten yl, plus anyone who understands fball knows the cougs outplayed USC that day (+200 rushing +300 passing vs their vaunted D) and the game shouldnt have been close at end--tho I never expect you to agree with that


as far as KSU game, i bet that with U as U recall, as our third team in 3 team teaser and as I recall Palmer couldnt get them in end zone at end for whatever reason (18 of 47 that day), and whether they dropped all those balls is just another excuse for USC playing like crap that game and losing to one of the 2 truly decent, balanced teams they played all year ... USC is not #1 this year, my pal, and it kills you, they didnt come to play 60 minutes for all 12 games, like Buckeyes and Miami managed ... bottom line, they had a good year in a conference with plenty of crappy teams ... who are the power teams in this league? USC and WSU? after that its a crap conf... If UW is #3 (or maybe its the beavs who they beat) they are playing purdue who was 6-6 and are -3 and dropping ...

Line up all 10 teams in Pac-10 vs Big 12 and SEC and I'd take my chances ... You know damn well Oregon sux, they got blown by very avg. UW and beavs late in year, FIFE was so horrible they had to bench him ... I dont get veiled thinking b/c I dont care about any team or conf.

I know you bet Palmer and love him, but I dont think he is any more deserving than any of them ...

as far as LJ being #1 pick in entire draft, that is what I heard on TV, as you know, Im not a NFL GM, im a coach and writer, hehe ... and you seem to keep overlooking that LJ had 151.6!!! total yards in those games, but your scott4usc blood for CP precludes that fact, which you, my friend, can look up (if any USC RB could duplicate that vs Stanford or Zona, youd get hard)

LJ the 25th pick, I hardly think so .... and while we are at it, you mocked all the Penn ST RBs ... where are the USC QBs in the NFL? ... I will be surprised if Palmer is any good, he'll get knocked on his ass like Dorsey will and then we'll see how they pop up and play ... Its a cinch to play with a lead, in the 3 games CP trailed at half he only won once (at home trailing by 2 to Cal) ... thats not much leadership ... Palmer was the national joke poster child for underachievers previous to this year--as anyone can attest, i.e. his Duck meltdown in 2001

as far as other awards, I dont think the nation thinx LJ is as big a joke as U do ... this just in from Yahoo sports

Johnson runs away with awards
Penn State tailback Larry Johnson won the Maxwell Award as the nation's best all-around player, as well as the Doak Walker Award. Johnson beat out QBs Ken Dorsey and Brad Banks for the award. Earlier, Johnson won the Doak Walker Award as the nation's top running back over another Heisman finalist, Willis McGahee. In other awards news, Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz was named AP Coach of the Year, and the Hawkeyes' Brad Banks won the Davey O'Brien QB award, beating out finalists Dorsey and Carson Palmer.

take care, gregg

ps i cant believe we brought or spat public hehe

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Dont want to get in the middle of a good arguement but LJ is not a Top 10 pick as we speak. Earliest you would hear his name called right now is 15-20 while Palmer is most likely a Top 5 pick. That wont help Palmer for the Heisman but thought I would throw that out.

It appears that these are the top players that really stick out before the combines......

Leftwich QB Marshall
Rogers WR MichSt
Kennedy DT PennSt
Palmer QB USC
Williams WR Texas
Joseph DT MiamiFlor
Ragone QB Louisville

 

[pt1gard]

if ragu sauce

if ragu sauce

is picked in front of LJ then i will laff as hard as I did when Joe Montana was picked in 3rd round and Timm Rosenbach was picked in first

have a great weekend,
gregg

 

[the_fix_is_on]

Ptgard,
I agree. Any team that would pick Ragu over Larry Johnson would deserve their fate. If Johnson doesn't go 1-5, someone hasn't watched the same games I've watched. The draft experts that have him going 25th are either idiots or morons (I'm not sure which has the lower I.Q.)
My opinion: Larry Johnson wins the Heisy in a tight one.
Quarterback huggers cancel each other out. LJ is left standing at the end.