Oh, OH A late comer has folks sounding ignorant. Since someone thinks he has all answers lets wait to here them.
Hey Pujo: Since you called Bush a liar about WMD's...
- Thread starter CHARLESMANSON
- Start date
DJ, I certainly don't have all the answers. It just seems that everyone on this board tries to polarize the arguments into good guy-bad guy. The "X" party is better b/c of such and such. There are so many nuances to each of these huge issues, it's funny how it comes down to "Bush lied" or "Dems are weak".
Did Bush believe Iraq had WMDs...He probably did. Chalabi had a big part in that. But this is only a small part of the story. Whether he had active WMD at this point is really moot. The US did not want a wild card dictator using his oil money to restart programs and become a middle east hegemon. Also, with forces in Iraq, it enabled the US military to force project onto Iran and Saudi Arabia. Perhaps not to engage them militarily, but to administer reform in those countries by having troops on their borders. In Saudi Arabia's case this appears to have worked. The situation in Iran is admittedly more murky.
I think that WMD's was found to be the best justification to the US public when the reasons were far more complex. I don't think the support would have been there for removing a "potential future threat". The WMD argument made the threat more tangible making the US public back the war.
Do I think we made a mistake by going into Iraq? No. We had to do something. Sanctions were not working and with WTI at $63, Saddam would have had all the money he needed to stir things up in the greater middle east.
The point is, there are no easy decisions. US leadership thought that going into Iraq was the best of a number of bad ones. Were they wrong? It's debatable. I just think it's dumb when people think one side is absolutely right and one absolutely wrong. This is politics, there are no absolutes.
And I am a democrat.
Did Bush believe Iraq had WMDs...He probably did. Chalabi had a big part in that. But this is only a small part of the story. Whether he had active WMD at this point is really moot. The US did not want a wild card dictator using his oil money to restart programs and become a middle east hegemon. Also, with forces in Iraq, it enabled the US military to force project onto Iran and Saudi Arabia. Perhaps not to engage them militarily, but to administer reform in those countries by having troops on their borders. In Saudi Arabia's case this appears to have worked. The situation in Iran is admittedly more murky.
I think that WMD's was found to be the best justification to the US public when the reasons were far more complex. I don't think the support would have been there for removing a "potential future threat". The WMD argument made the threat more tangible making the US public back the war.
Do I think we made a mistake by going into Iraq? No. We had to do something. Sanctions were not working and with WTI at $63, Saddam would have had all the money he needed to stir things up in the greater middle east.
The point is, there are no easy decisions. US leadership thought that going into Iraq was the best of a number of bad ones. Were they wrong? It's debatable. I just think it's dumb when people think one side is absolutely right and one absolutely wrong. This is politics, there are no absolutes.
And I am a democrat.
Some thoughtful commentary there, Trentwalker. I think that over the past few years that constructive commentary has taken a back seat to posturing and appearing "right." Nobody can "admit" problems with a member of a political party because they will be proving the other side as being correct, etc. I myself am guilty of this with one of my last posts with Palehose and have been feeling kind of bad about it. The guy admits something, and I post it specifically to use later. This does not foster an environment of dealing positively with issues and trying to make anything better.
Truth be told, both sides are right and wrong a lot. Meeting in the middle would many times be best. Tough to do. At any rate, thanks for your perspective...it was well said.
Truth be told, both sides are right and wrong a lot. Meeting in the middle would many times be best. Tough to do. At any rate, thanks for your perspective...it was well said.
I figure we can afford to be nice today, since half of the administration will be arrested tomorrow...
:brows:
:brows:
BUSH HAD NO PLAN TO GET OUT OF THIS MESS ! He doesn't have a clue !
LOOK AT HIM NOW--His EYES ARE STARK STARING BLANK. BECAUSE DEEP DOWN INSIDE HE KNOWS HE PHUCKED UP. Pujo
I am not sure that he had no plan - I think he is using the same plan we had for exiting Viet Nam
LOOK AT HIM NOW--His EYES ARE STARK STARING BLANK. BECAUSE DEEP DOWN INSIDE HE KNOWS HE PHUCKED UP. Pujo
I am not sure that he had no plan - I think he is using the same plan we had for exiting Viet Nam
The plan is called staying the course. You pussies ever seen Patton? I doubt it, never mind. We are at war with Al Queda. Bush does not want to surrender. Neither do I or the troops. Gee, lets just surrnder to Al Queda. Come home losers and let Al Queda take over huh???? NICE LOGIC!!!!
Some asshole said Bush lied about WMD's....I pointed out that every damn democrat in history said the same goddamn thing and you liberals cannot even explain why.
You try to change the subject. You tell me I'm spewing old news. Clem I am sorry bro but you are a complete jackass. I'm not the one who brought up WMD's - PUJO DID and I challenged him. Then you accuse me of metioning my long tired list of WMD claimers from the left. YOU being a leftist...no wonder you hate to hear it all the time!! THE TRUTH HURTS HUH CLEM???? lol
you liberalas can suck my dick...ban me or whatever Jack these liberals are complete hypocrites and I could seriously give a shit if I get to argue with them anymore
Saddam exterminated over 400,000 innocent people.....Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Kennedy all said Saddam was a grave threat and had WMD's. Bush extracted the WMD's............Saddam and his sons who killed half a million people...........live with it. :clap:
Some asshole said Bush lied about WMD's....I pointed out that every damn democrat in history said the same goddamn thing and you liberals cannot even explain why.
You try to change the subject. You tell me I'm spewing old news. Clem I am sorry bro but you are a complete jackass. I'm not the one who brought up WMD's - PUJO DID and I challenged him. Then you accuse me of metioning my long tired list of WMD claimers from the left. YOU being a leftist...no wonder you hate to hear it all the time!! THE TRUTH HURTS HUH CLEM???? lol
you liberalas can suck my dick...ban me or whatever Jack these liberals are complete hypocrites and I could seriously give a shit if I get to argue with them anymore
Saddam exterminated over 400,000 innocent people.....Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Kennedy all said Saddam was a grave threat and had WMD's. Bush extracted the WMD's............Saddam and his sons who killed half a million people...........live with it. :clap:
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Crickets chirping is right Clem.............think about it!! BTW thanks for explaining to us why John Kerry and Bill Clinton each said Saddam had WMD's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:142lmao:
Everytime I show that long list of all the liberals that "lied" about WMD's....I hear crickets chirping too.
:mj14:
:142lmao:
Everytime I show that long list of all the liberals that "lied" about WMD's....I hear crickets chirping too.
:mj14:
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CHARLESMANSON said:
You said Bush extracted the WMD's???
When the **** did that happen? I missed it.
This is another Palehose comment for the ages.
Go ahead and edit it out dipshit. Like every other time you get caught without the facts.
