61 years ago today, in one of the most cowardly acts in History, 140,000 Japanese civilians were without warning murdered on the orders of President Truman. Not to be outdone, he duplicated the feat 3 days later. END
Hiroshima
- Thread starter danmurphy jr
- Start date
kosar..
you're wasting your time with people like dan...dan is one of these people who roots against the u.s., & roots for the u.s. enemies...it's rather pathetic.
it's estmated that by dropping the bomb when he did truman saved about 1/2 million allied soldiers lives....
and i'm glad truman did it....it may have saved my father's life....
you're wasting your time with people like dan...dan is one of these people who roots against the u.s., & roots for the u.s. enemies...it's rather pathetic.
it's estmated that by dropping the bomb when he did truman saved about 1/2 million allied soldiers lives....
and i'm glad truman did it....it may have saved my father's life....
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very disappointing.....dan is,many times,a sharp guy....actually,dead money makes some good points.....(even a broken clock gets it right twice a day....i kid)....
but,sometimes you guys are scarily anti-american...to the point that i wonder about your intentions....
dan,we will see this tragedy repeated,unfortunately(from my perspective...i`m sure not yours).....
when iran or an islamofascist organization gets a wmd.....be it on the end of a rocket or iin a suitcase....
their leaders admit as much....
i have to ask again...why are people that obviously hate this country still here?....
why are hyphonated americans more closely aligned to their country of origin?....my people were immigrants....that country means very little to me...
it offered me nno opportunity....it didn`t provide the tremendous advantages that i enjoy here....
i think smurph said it best..."we hit the birth lottery".....
everyone flocks to the u.s....for opportunity...education....freedom...
cable t.v.... :SIB
people aren`t flocking to the middle east...seriously...
think,guys...think how lucky we are........
but,sometimes you guys are scarily anti-american...to the point that i wonder about your intentions....
dan,we will see this tragedy repeated,unfortunately(from my perspective...i`m sure not yours).....
when iran or an islamofascist organization gets a wmd.....be it on the end of a rocket or iin a suitcase....
their leaders admit as much....
i have to ask again...why are people that obviously hate this country still here?....
why are hyphonated americans more closely aligned to their country of origin?....my people were immigrants....that country means very little to me...
it offered me nno opportunity....it didn`t provide the tremendous advantages that i enjoy here....
i think smurph said it best..."we hit the birth lottery".....
everyone flocks to the u.s....for opportunity...education....freedom...
cable t.v.... :SIB
people aren`t flocking to the middle east...seriously...
think,guys...think how lucky we are........
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danmurphy jr said:
Oh, my god... Would you rather have had the estimated thousands of American soldiers that would have died invading Japan. If you made that statement to my Grandpa who actually served in that war, he would punch you in the throat. What a friggin' joke.
Other Murphy, you won't get much support on this one. There could be some debate about whether FDR would have donw the same. Truman was eager for global respect - something Allied leaders gave FDR, but no so much to Truman. FDR was very close to the research team, but kept Truman a little out of loop. Supposedly, the scientists were shocked when Truman ordered the bombing - they thought the US would invite Japanese leaders to view a test bombing first - then allow them a chance for surrender before hitting an a ctual city. Based on the fact that Japan didn't surrender right after Hiroshima, I doubt they would have after viewing a test.
If you ever get a chance, Hiroshima is worth a visit. I think the bombinb was justified and saved many of our own lives. Like AR's dad - I likely would have lost Grandpa Murphy - as he was all over the Pacific theater. Still - it's an amazing place to visit. It's a beautiful city of over a million people. Right in the middle is the "A-Bomb Dome" - an old theater whose skeleton remained afetr the bomb. The museum that documents that day is very emotional. It doesn't matter what side your on, innocent dead children are innocent dead children.
Hirohito and Hitler are responsible for their people's deaths though. They started that war and refused to surrender - leaving their loyal citizens out to be slaughtered. We ended that war the best we could - by killing them instead of us.
If you ever get a chance, Hiroshima is worth a visit. I think the bombinb was justified and saved many of our own lives. Like AR's dad - I likely would have lost Grandpa Murphy - as he was all over the Pacific theater. Still - it's an amazing place to visit. It's a beautiful city of over a million people. Right in the middle is the "A-Bomb Dome" - an old theater whose skeleton remained afetr the bomb. The museum that documents that day is very emotional. It doesn't matter what side your on, innocent dead children are innocent dead children.
Hirohito and Hitler are responsible for their people's deaths though. They started that war and refused to surrender - leaving their loyal citizens out to be slaughtered. We ended that war the best we could - by killing them instead of us.
Dan- I actually agree with your views on the Israel/Lebanon stuff to an extent (I'm not extremely knowledgable on the subject so I'm avoiding the topic in here), but you're off base here. I wrote a paper on this in college and did a lot of research on the subject. Not only were hundreds of thousands of American lives saved by the use of the bomb, but millions of Japanese lives were saved, as well. It was well documented that the Japanese were willing to fight a certain type of warfare, and while it ultimately still ended an Allied victory, it would've been the very definition of "war of attrition." The Japanese would've fought until the very end, and the fight would've been taken to the cities. Without even looking at military lives saved on both ends by the quick end to the war, the number of civilian lives saved was staggering.
As far as the second bomb... no, it wasn't necessary, but Truman and the US had no idea what long-term ramifications would've come from Hiroshima when the second bomb dropped.
As far as the second bomb... no, it wasn't necessary, but Truman and the US had no idea what long-term ramifications would've come from Hiroshima when the second bomb dropped.
Good posts, smurph and AR. Like yourselves, I likely wouldn't be alive today without that ending, as my grandfather was a navy bomber pilot in the pacific theater during WW11 and would definitely be headed to any invasion. He was told as much beforehand.
That notwithstanding, whether a family member was there or not, or could be affected/killed, it would make little difference in my opinion that this saved 500k to 1 million allied lives. That fact stands on it's own merits.
One thing though. When somebody posts that Truman murdered all these innocent civilians, they are also saying that my grandfather did the same on any of his 175 + sorties, mostly over the Phillipines.
That doesn't fly, as it were.
That notwithstanding, whether a family member was there or not, or could be affected/killed, it would make little difference in my opinion that this saved 500k to 1 million allied lives. That fact stands on it's own merits.
One thing though. When somebody posts that Truman murdered all these innocent civilians, they are also saying that my grandfather did the same on any of his 175 + sorties, mostly over the Phillipines.
That doesn't fly, as it were.
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Here is danmurphy proving what a big tool he is.
the obvious response to this has already been said, but to reiterate, if the bombs had not been dropped, there would have been probably 300,000 or more Allied deaths during the invasion and probably quadruple that in Japanese dead old men, women, and children. Actually without the bomb, the war would have been extended many months. My grandfather was attached to the 4th Marine division, so I'm sure he wouldn't have made it either, kosar. I feel he was fortunate to make it through all the invasions he did in the fighting 4th: Roy Namur, Saipan, Tinian, and Iwo.
dan, you are a slap in the face to all Americans. I'm glad you have the right though to post like an idiot. You do because you're an American, not because you deserve it, but because you were fortunate to be born in this great country.
dan, you are a slap in the face to all Americans. I'm glad you have the right though to post like an idiot. You do because you're an American, not because you deserve it, but because you were fortunate to be born in this great country.
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Unfortunately, this discovery appeared during WW II, and after the many japanese attacks in the Pacific, it seemed an excellent opportunity for the U.S.A. to test their bomb on the scene of operations. On August 6, 1945, in a fraction of second, "Little Boy", a 4-ton A-bomb killed 70,000 people and destroyed 62,000 buildings, the 2/3d of Hiroshima city. Three days later, Nagasaki was also stroke and did 35,000 innocent victims. Without condition Japan capitulated. But the effects of this dirty war were not ended. End 1945, four months after the end of war, Japan recorded 140,000 more victims, most burned in their flesh, irradiated and contaminated by the radioactivity released by the bomb. Some have suffered from the bomb up today...
After these sad days, we learnt that the fallout generated by the explosion, not only released radioactivity and heat but it was also associated to intense but temporary perturbations of the electromagnetic spectrum. In the 1980s Sagan and Turok, learnt us that after a global nuclear war, it is more than probable that all wireless communications will be interrupted over a large area, and all unshielded computer devices will be affected and out of use until repair. A complete electronic and radio blackout will be observed for months due to the extreme ionization of the air and most electrons moving freely in the air due to Compton effect. Bad time for hams, and for all of us. Hopefully that always stayed at state of a simulation.
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For anyone to think that Iran and N Korea should have nukes
is a crazy thing to consider.
Set one of these off in the wrong place, and we all could suffer the consequeces for many many years.
Maybe no internet for a long time.
After these sad days, we learnt that the fallout generated by the explosion, not only released radioactivity and heat but it was also associated to intense but temporary perturbations of the electromagnetic spectrum. In the 1980s Sagan and Turok, learnt us that after a global nuclear war, it is more than probable that all wireless communications will be interrupted over a large area, and all unshielded computer devices will be affected and out of use until repair. A complete electronic and radio blackout will be observed for months due to the extreme ionization of the air and most electrons moving freely in the air due to Compton effect. Bad time for hams, and for all of us. Hopefully that always stayed at state of a simulation.
................................................................
For anyone to think that Iran and N Korea should have nukes
is a crazy thing to consider.
Set one of these off in the wrong place, and we all could suffer the consequeces for many many years.
Maybe no internet for a long time.
If we didn't develop the a-bomb as quickly as we did, the backup plan was the "bat bomb". If you haven't heard of this, it was an awesome idea and probably would have been effective. Almost wish the a-bomb took a little longer just for the sake of seeing what this would have done...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb
Nobody reasonable thinks they "should" have nukes - please don't confuse non-aggressive stances on that issue as being in favor of them being nuclear.Scott-Atlanta said:
The question is the extent we are willing to go to get them from achieving nukes. We are not effective when going pre-emptive. We get very little support at home or abroad. Unless they actually strike us first, our only reasonable options are diplomatic. If they ever are crazy enough to nuke us or a friend, then we have full authority to wipe them off the globe.
BTW, how do you feel about Pakistan being nuclear? Sould we be taking them out right now?
............................................smurphy said:
It is troubling to think that if Musaroff sp. was taken out of power, the ones coming into power may be very dangerous to the world.
Pakistan and India pretty much offset each other. They both act like roosters with nukes , but in the end will never do anything to assure mutal destruction. They are both smarter people than that.
Now Iran and N Korea thats a differant story. I would like not to think about having to annialate Iran after they would nuke Israel.
Its almost incomprehensible.
As far as the bat bombs all I can say is
Holy Batman !
Japan was lucky we only had those little guys back then and not the H Bomb 15 times more powerful. By us dropping those two bombs it's estimated it saved over another 500000 lives. Many that would have been Woman and Children. Lets not forget the military of Japan said no surrender EVER. Even if meant leaving the country of Japan in ashes. They believed every man woman and child should die for the cause. Our military only could estimate invading Japan could cause us 30000 to 40000 more casualties. WE did the RIGHT thing.
And how many were murdered in Pearl Harbor during their attack on us that got us started after their ass?
And the 70-some civilians who were executed on Wake Island when the Japs invaded there....
Japan got what they were asking for by plunging that side of the planet into war.
Had I been president at that time, they'd have gotten tested with every nuke I could build for the next ten years, the Missouri wouldn't have been anywhere near for those pukes to surrender, and Japan would have been turned into New Atlantis.
Then the next c0cksucker country would have thought twice about engaging us in war.
Japan got off light.
And the 70-some civilians who were executed on Wake Island when the Japs invaded there....
Japan got what they were asking for by plunging that side of the planet into war.
Had I been president at that time, they'd have gotten tested with every nuke I could build for the next ten years, the Missouri wouldn't have been anywhere near for those pukes to surrender, and Japan would have been turned into New Atlantis.
Then the next c0cksucker country would have thought twice about engaging us in war.
Japan got off light.
Perhaps we should have handed one of our bombs to China and let them take out a little revenge for Nanking. Japan raped and slaughtered nearly 400,000 people in one city in just 3 months. They thought of Chinese as subhuman. They were on the same course of destruction as the Nazis.
Marco-well over 2400 Americans died at Pearl Harbor, many in their beds, and close to 1200 alone on the USS Arizona, which of course serves as a memorial now. Japan got what it had coming for this cowardly unprovoked attack against America.
