Ho hum- Just another week in Iraq

[gardenweasel]

I guess I don't understand this Levi guys statement. How does threatening sanctions eliminate 'uncertainty?' And 'uncertainty' by whose definition? There was absolutely no uncertainty about Iraq and we were dead wrong about everything.

So we impose sanctions, Iran withdraws from the NPT, boots inspectors and is left alone to do as they please.

If our goal is that they are sanctioned and then decide to drop the program, then we are hopelessly naive.

So we can assume that sanctions won't work, because they won't. Now what? Try to get some decent intel on exact locations of their reactors and try to take them out simultaneously in surgical strikes? No way that will work. It would take a force of probably twice or three times what we have in Iraq to even have a shot at overwhelming their forces and searching that whole country for WMD and for reactors. Then we could have our third country in receivorship.

That evidence posted above isn't exactly a smoking gun, although the chances are pretty good that they are striving for nukes. Giving the choices of how to 'try' to eliminate their program, I have to wonder if the cure isn't worse than the disease.

you don`t believe that`s a "smoking gun"?..iran`s been concealing their nuclear program for the last 18 years....lol......everybody else in the world thinks so....

...lets just give up,then......no sanctions.....no anything.....let the middle east turn into a "nuke free zone"....

lol....that`s the extreme liberal position...to quit...to give up....it`s very european....

thank(insert your favorite deity) that most americans aren`t capitulators...as the last election indicates...

i still say,and i don`t understand why no one makes the point,that iraq had literally years leading up to the war to remove or dispose of any and all biological,chemical and/or nuclear technology they may have had.....thanks to the u.n. dragging their feet...for literally years...



they HAD CHEMICAL WEAPONS...THAT`S A FACT...they refused verification that they were destroyed..that was the problem......

where are they? ....did they disappear?...into thin air?...are they buried in the desert?....are they in lebanon?...syria?....

if they were destoyed,why not freely admit it and show verification?...save your ass,saddam....


why haven`t they been found?....maybe because they were taken out....prior to the war...it`s so obvious...so plausible,it`s painful...


i know you must understand how enormously high the stakes are ....

and btw.....regarding their reactor....it`s imminently accessible...even though it`s not the whole story,removing it would set them back a bit...


"""Does Iran currently have civilian nuclear facilities?

Yes. The main one, an $800 million Russian-built nuclear power plant at Bushehr, is scheduled to open in 2005 along the Persian Gulf in southwestern Iran. Russian officials say they will continue to build the reactor despite fears that Iran could divert expertise into a nuclear weapons program. Although the plant will eventually produce spent fuel rods that contain plutonium, experts say the substances that will be produced in the Bushehr rector are not ideal for making nuclear weapons. Furthermore, Bushehr will be subject to IAEA inspections. Russian officials have said they will require all spent fuel rods from Bushehr to be returned to Russia."""

we can count on russia....lol

i fully expect israel,hopefully before this monstrosity goes hot,to maybe do what they did with saddam and at least knock this particular piece of the puzzle out of the equation.....

kosar...you may like playing russian roulette with these crazy muslim despots and theocracies....most of us(and the israeli`s ) don`t....considering many of them are trying to remove us from existence....

a laisez faire attitude doesn`t cut it when the stakes are so high...

as a synopsis,let me list the reasons for keeping nukes out of the hands of the mullahs...

A)...threatens israeli, u.s. and european security...(see terrorist links to iran)...not to mention the security of arab allies like jordan...unlike iraq,the links between iran,hamas,hisballah,even bin laden are documented.... i`ll provide if asked...i hope you don`t ask.....lol..it`s extensive...anybody can pull it up on the net...they are considered the "foremost state sponsor of terrorism worldwide".....

B)harden arab positions in any future peace negotiations.....

C)..increase militancy and embolden hard-liners....

D)....destabilize the gulf area....

E)....encourage other countries, such as saudi arabia,syria,lebanon, and libya, to follow suit....

btw...how about the video of the terrorists....not iraqi citizens....terrorists..shooting down that commercial copter..full of contractors trying to help rebuild the country.....and then standing up the pilot...who had a broken leg....and executing him ....shouting,

ALLAH AKBAR!!!!...god is great,isn`t that what this means?

and some people on the left think the israelis are the bad guys...that`s utterly insane...

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

lol- Please. 'Dominating election.' Bush won Ohio by a few points.

Also, once again for the fiftieth time, the large majority of the worlds population is against the war in Iraq. Except for Israel, (and possibly the US depending on the day of the week) I don't believe there isn't a single country whose populus is over 50-50 in favor. That's not really a 'minority', no matter how you try to spin it.

and for the 50th time VIEW THE MAP__OPEN YOUR EYES
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

You take away DC LA and NY and what do you have left.
No secret about your "90%" domination.
Your key to your victory is increase welfare population--allow felons to vote-- pick another large electorate state to invade


and as far as those against war in Iraq--do the Iraq's count--sure was odd the # that risk their lives to get out and vote--while those in other countries set back in security of their homes because others did same for them at one time--and carry on about the sacrifices they are making.
Quite amazing how this freedom thing has caught on--Afgan-Iraq-Ukraine--Syria ect also amazing is those joining fight against terror Pakistan-Lybia-Yemen-Suadi--All in spite of efforts by terrorist AND liberals.

to be fair and balanced I'll try and give both views so both conservatives and liberals can enjoy.

Link to Algezeera report--note similiarity by liberals and NYT
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

and a from local Iraq paper--sheez looks like some optomistic views
http://www.azzaman.com/english/

---and for those wanting to read about lots of good things going on in Iraq and you got lots of time--you might find this intersting--

http://windsofchange.net/archives/005587.php

 

[djv]

It's not bad enough we went there under info shall we say not true. The truth was there but no one in this administration wanted to here it. It's like the high health cost and high energy prices. This administration doesn't give a chit about the middle class. We need to pick our spots well when it comes to war. Nam and Iraq show we don't learn very well. Just think Iraq used to export over a million barrels a day. Know they import over 750000 barrels a day. And we just keep pouring money we don't have down that stink hole. Good Job Mr President.

 

[kosar]

and for the 50th time VIEW THE MAP__OPEN YOUR EYES
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

You take away DC LA and NY and what do you have left.
No secret about your "90%" domination.
Your key to your victory is increase welfare population--allow felons to vote-- pick another large electorate state to invade


and as far as those against war in Iraq--do the Iraq's count--sure was odd the # that risk their lives to get out and vote--while those in other countries set back in security of their homes because others did same for them at one time--and carry on about the sacrifices they are making.
Quite amazing how this freedom thing has caught on--Afgan-Iraq-Ukraine--Syria ect also amazing is those joining fight against terror Pakistan-Lybia-Yemen-Suadi--All in spite of efforts by terrorist AND liberals.

That's like saying, 'if it wasn't for those 4 interceptions, I would've won that bet.' As hard as it is for you to believe or accept, people in DC, LA, Bostpn, etc, count for one vote just like those from Boise.

The county charts will almost always look like that. I'd be interested to see the chart from 1992. I'll bet there is red all over the place. Does that mean that Bush 41 'dominated', even though he lost the election?

In 2000, the charts looked like that. Does that mean Bush 43 'dominated?' Come on.

I hope that you're still posting (or that any of us are still alive) when we withdraw totally from Iraq. I'll be interested in your thoughts when all of our efforts and all of the lives lost and all of the billions(trillions?) are wasted within months as civil war breaks out and a dictatorship or theocracy is established and these people that you are so worried about are left with a similar, or worse situation than they had with Saddam.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

A vote is a vote--come on Matt You can take any large city or populated area. Look @ Fla---Counties leading in crime-welfare-ect vote about 80% democratic and pull the majority of your votes.
Maybe you think we would be better off with this segment of population running the country but I seriously doubt it,your MUCH smarter than that my friend.Lets make those on welfare CEO's of all small businesses--- put the crimanals in law enforcement--convert all property into slums. A votes a vote right? Would you let employees in your company vote on who does what job including you.Do you think they would be as successful as you at running company and how would you feel as one who built company with your knowlegde and assets--turning them over to the employees and working for them if that is how they voted?

 

[djv]

I only wish we put someone in office that knows what the hell there doing. I don't care what color or sex. Broke or Rich. Well broke might be better. At least they would not have been on the take. And Jesus really loves them.

 

[kosar]

A vote is a vote--come on Matt You can take any large city or populated area. Look @ Fla---Counties leading in crime-welfare-ect vote about 80% democratic and pull the majority of your votes.
Maybe you think we would be better off with this segment of population running the country but I seriously doubt it,your MUCH smarter than that my friend.Lets make those on welfare CEO's of all small businesses--- put the crimanals in law enforcement--convert all property into slums. A votes a vote right? Would you let employees in your company vote on who does what job including you.Do you think they would be as successful as you at running company and how would you feel as one who built company with your knowlegde and assets--turning them over to the employees and working for them if that is how they voted?

Not at all sure what you're saying. Are you saying that because poor people tend to vote dem, then if I vote dem, I am voting for them to 'run the country?' That a vote for a dem is a vote for criminals? That's some twisted logic there.

I don't want dumb hicks or bible thumpers running the country either but I don't think that if somebody votes reb that they are endorsing those groups.

And yes, a vote is a vote. To think otherwise is more elitist than any liberal rants that i've read. Your vote is no more important than Tyrone from Philly and mine is no more important than Wilson's, who has only been out of his county in West Virginia once in his 27 years.

So I guess, yes, if those terrible poor people or Asians or Jews or blacks think that a democratic candidate is better, and I agree for whatever reasons, then I have no problem coming down on their side.

By the same token, if I like a republican candidate for whatever reasons, I have no problem coming down on the side of white trash, hillbillies with four teeth, racists, bigots, gay haters, bible thumpers, mountain men and other similarly qualified voters.

One thing has nothing to do with another.

 

[Penguinfan]

So I guess, yes, if those terrible poor people or Asians or Jews or blacks think that a democratic candidate is better, and I agree for whatever reasons, then I have no problem coming down on their side.

By the same token, if I like a republican candidate for whatever reasons, I have no problem coming down on the side of white trash, hillbillies with four teeth, racists, bigots, gay haters, bible thumpers, mountain men and other similarly qualified voters.

One thing has nothing to do with another.

There's a ton more logic in that post than I think you even intended, too bad it will be lost on the majority.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Why do you keep referring to I am speaking of the poor.Did I not just go through that a few days ago. Farmers have tough times pending weather--some people work 2 jobs to make ends meet--or to put their children through school--while they may be finanicially in pinch and technically classified as poor I would call them model citizens.
You know who I'm talking about in YOUR 80% party so don't try an spin it.
If you don't take a drive through the only 10 counties in Fla that voted for Kerry at night by yourself and report back to us.

 

[StevieD]

I hear that we are so low on combat soldiers that we are now sending guys trained in construction to the front lines to fight. Stretched very thin by this administration that got us into this war for what? Oh yeah, WMD. They stopped looking for that too this week. As the lies continue to spew from the mouths of the administration and the Corporate Press America goes further and further into debt.

 

[kosar]

Why do you keep referring to I am speaking of the poor.Did I not just go through that a few days ago. Farmers have tough times pending weather--some people work 2 jobs to make ends meet--or to put their children through school--while they may be finanicially in pinch and technically classified as poor I would call them model citizens.
You know who I'm talking about in YOUR 80% party so don't try an spin it.
If you don't take a drive through the only 10 counties in Fla that voted for Kerry at night by yourself and report back to us.

Wayne,

When you mentioned welfare, I thought you might have meant poor. I guess not.

Yes, I know who you're talking about with your 80%. How did Asians vote in 2004, 2000, 1996, etc? Or Jewish people for about 6000 years? Same deal? Or not really?

Are you scared of your own shadow? Take a drive? I've lived(total of 5 years-Broward and Palm Beach-, mostly Ft. Lauderdale in Broward) in two of those counties. Broward and Palm Beach(Boca Raton). Actually, compared to the rest of the country, it is paradise. Never a problem, ever. I guess it just has to do with how one deals with somebody else who doesn't look exactly like themself when they're at the grocery store.


I currently live in Lee County(Ft Myers), and have lived here for 6 years, which I prefer to the east coast of FL.. I'm from the midwest(Ohio, Indiana and Illinois,mostly Indiana) and that's who comes to this coast. NJ and NY people go to the east coast(along with men in bikinis from montreal).

In most ways I prefer it here. It might shock you to know that it's a conservative county by a big margin(58-42, or around there).

 

[djv]

Just think what we could have fixed here at home with the now over 104 billion. Maybe S/S maybe a few bridges that are falling down. Maybe the border really protected. The list is endless.

 

[djv]

Make it 200 billion for last two years.
Just saw this week is real nasty. It's only Thursday and over 125 civilians dead. Boy this place is well on it's way to recovery. NOT.
Looks like we have changed nothing since invading. And it all was about lies.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"Just think what we could have fixed here at home with the now over 104 billion"

That wouldn't even cover one trade tower--What do you think 911 cost was to our economy not including property or lives.
What do you think the next terror assault would cost and the next.
---and if they set off nuke or dirty bomb in huge city 104 billion would even cover the interest.
Does the evidence of what occurs (1st unsuccessful trade attack)
when you do nothing ever enter the liberal mind?

 

[smurphy]

Does the evidence of what occurs (1st unsuccessful trade attack)
when you do nothing ever enter the liberal mind?

Exactly, that's why I figured Bush and Rice wouldn't have ignored all those memos about Al Qaeda being determined to attack the US.

Stop blaming Democrats for being soft on terrorism. It just doesn't add up.

And if your going to compare $ billions like that, then there's no point harping on social programs, because they are a mere drop in the bucket when compared to everything going into Iraq.

 

[djv]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. I don't remember any terror attack with folks from Iraq. There now in Iraq training and killing civilians and our men and woman. If some how you think that makes America safer. Not sure why.

 

[StevieD]

Why are we still fighting this war on their level. Our soldiers have the most advanced and powerful weapons of any army in the world. We paid for these. Bush has reduced our soldiers to a fight where we might as well be fighting in the jungle. If we think there are insurgents in the area we should blow the place to kingdom come. This PC war that Bush is fighting is doing nothing except getting our soldiers maimed and killed as we make more enimies. It seems to me if he is going to fight this war because he sees Iraq as a threat then he should fight to win. If he thought Saddam was the threat, well, Saddam is gone and so should we be except Bush created a terrorist breeding zone. Anyone seen bin Laden?