How did we get into this Financial crisis?
- Thread starter Equity Trader
- Start date
Price depends onlocation and size as most places.
You been a bit testy lately--are those creditors calling on you after real estate prices dropped --
O will let you refinace @ 4%.
I put up thread just for you--
http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359952
i hope some others have had fun trying to make sense of the 'remains' of their 401k/ira balances (not a fun job, butcha` gotta do it) and have concluded that obama and geithner are well on their way to having successfully completed the mission that bin laden set out to do on 9/11...that is,to devastate the american financial system...
/where`s spy?...somewhere high 5-ing his jihadi buddies,i suspect....
/where`s spy?...somewhere high 5-ing his jihadi buddies,i suspect....
Weas,
I actually agree with you on this.
But also Crooked peolpe on Wall strret have done there damage also.
You just have to wonder, when you read something like this... All this because of Obama ? ????? Nothing to do with the last 8 yrs... We did everything wrong as a Country leading up to & since 911... In every aspect. No leadership in the private sector or government, on the left or right . I don't think he should have picked geithner for ethical reasons... He may turn out to be as bad for our Country as bush/cheney BUT : how can you seriously post this at this point ? Maybe I missed your humor or your point. Are you serious ? If so, how can you be ?
--and obama's 1st statemet today on stem cell--
Today, with the Executive Order I am about to sign, we will bring the change that so many scientists and researchers; doctors and innovators; patients and loved ones have hoped for, and fought for, these past eight years: we will lift the ban on federal funding for promising embryonic stem cell research.
Has there been any speach O's had yet that didn't fall back on his excuse for failure--"the past 8 years."
I wish Gumby would get a sack-or put his wife or Biden in charge--his getto mentality of its not my fault/blaming someone else is getting old'
Never have I seen any pres whine about what others have done to stave off his own potential failures.
So far he's been nothing but a politician with excuses and a telepromter.
---and does he really think most are aware the Dems were in power the last since 07 when the shit hit the fan.
Would someone tell this tony robbins wanna be--there are some concerned more with free fall since he's been elected and the next 4 years vs last 8.
I'll be tickled pink if his 1st 4 years is remotely close to last admin or one prior--and we went through some pretty tough times then--but we had a leader not a someone trying blame others for their success or failure.
--He's following same path he did in his short career in senate--you can't vote present when your pres--
Ok --its a new day--lets see if we can search news and see if O and Geither have any new prospects of stopping the economies free fall-
Nope --but we do do have some news out on what he does best--social spending--as you read-remember O and Gibbs telling the press/world that less than 1 % of stimulus would be social spending.
<CITE class=vcard>By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer </CITE>? <ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-03-10T03:22:18-0700>14 mins ago</ABBR>
<ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-03-10T03:22:18-0700>Obama to unveil education plan, no new legislation
WASHINGTON ? President Barack Obama is promoting tighter standards for teachers and a reduced dropout rate for students as part of an education plan that, at least for now, lacks any new legislative component.
--------
Aides said Obama would not propose new spending during the speech, although he already has taken steps on education. His $787 billion economic stimulus package provides $41 billion in grants to local school districts. He also plans to send $79 billion in state fiscal relief to prevent cuts in state aid and another $21 billion for school modernization
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lets see--we have high school graduation rate of mid 50% for black and hispanics and solution is throwing more money at it like past 20 years with little result.
Wonder if lack of family values-or lack of family period -might be the problem--and not the facilties.
</ABBR>
<ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-03-10T03:22:18-0700></ABBR>
<!-- end .byline -->
Nope --but we do do have some news out on what he does best--social spending--as you read-remember O and Gibbs telling the press/world that less than 1 % of stimulus would be social spending.
<CITE class=vcard>By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer </CITE>? <ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-03-10T03:22:18-0700>14 mins ago</ABBR>
<ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-03-10T03:22:18-0700>Obama to unveil education plan, no new legislation
WASHINGTON ? President Barack Obama is promoting tighter standards for teachers and a reduced dropout rate for students as part of an education plan that, at least for now, lacks any new legislative component.
--------
Aides said Obama would not propose new spending during the speech, although he already has taken steps on education. His $787 billion economic stimulus package provides $41 billion in grants to local school districts. He also plans to send $79 billion in state fiscal relief to prevent cuts in state aid and another $21 billion for school modernization
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lets see--we have high school graduation rate of mid 50% for black and hispanics and solution is throwing more money at it like past 20 years with little result.
Wonder if lack of family values-or lack of family period -might be the problem--and not the facilties.
</ABBR>
<ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-03-10T03:22:18-0700></ABBR>
<!-- end .byline -->
Originally Posted by Terryray
some interesting history for us policy geeks...
major bills presented by Republicans:
.....
H.R. 2575, Secondary Mortgage Market Enterprises Regulatory Improvement Act
Introduced by Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA) on June 24, 2003
"The bill would have created a strong, independent regulator to oversee the companies? mission and their safety and soundness, and provided the regulator with the same authority as the bank regulators to establish risk and capital standards. It also gave the regulator authority to take corrective action including receivership authority."
...
H.R.2803 introduced on 21 July 2003 by Rep. Edward R Royce (R-CA,40).
Title: To establish the Office of Housing Finance Oversight in the Department of the Treasury to ensure the financial safety and soundness of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal home loan banks
...
S.1508, introduced 31 July 2003 by Sen Chuck Hagel (R-NE).
Title: A bill to address regulation of secondary mortgage market enterprises, and for other purposes.
....
H.R. 1461: 2005-2006 Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005 - Introduced by Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA)
To reform the regulation of certain housing-related Government-sponsored enterprises, and for other purposes.
...
McCain co-sponsored above bill in Senate as S. 190 in 2005, and said then he did it "to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole."
---------------------------------------------
On to the a few details:
on 2003 H.R. 2575 bill, NY Times reported:
"Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing."
.....
The big H.R. 1461 bill got so changed by Congress, it actually made matters worse, and was no reform at all. And not because of the poison pill. Barney don't mention that! But it is the one shining moment for Barney, as he did dutifully round up democratic votes for it and worked hard with Oxley.
Bush opposed it (as Barney said above "gave his efforts 'the one-finger salute.") because Bush wanted a stronger one passed, didn't wanna waste the resources on this one, passage of which could also forestall efforts for any strong one ("we already passed a bill to address that" you know those busy folks would say). Barney don't mention that part of the story, of course.
Bush's treasury secty urged him to compromise, Bush didn't.
but, of course, Bush didn't work real hard to pass one either -- it woulda required a major focused effort -- despite repeated strong words and warnings by him, Treasury, his econ advisors and Greenspan.
I'm sure he regrets that now!
....
And, yes, the only bill that got passed was Barney's. We saw how well that helped! It was the sort of weak, ineffectual bill Bush worried would get passed so folks could say "we did something", but as politician do, confuse that with doing something good.
way too little, way too late---long after it became obvious something had to be done, after years and years and years of numerous repeated warnings.
But good ol' Barney late as 2008, in clip here, saying Fannie & Freddie are "OK..some soundness there" in part due to his fine bill....2008! :mj07:
as I've said before, plenty of blame to go around.
But 80% of the strong warnings and words came from Republicans and thier brethren on blogs and Wall Street Journal pages, National Review, etc.
You could argue, I suppose, that since Republicans sensed the impending problem--and were in charge and passed nothing--they actually should stand more blame than the many democrats that fought against all the reform and pooh-poohed the warnings.
some interesting history for us policy geeks...
major bills presented by Republicans:
.....
H.R. 2575, Secondary Mortgage Market Enterprises Regulatory Improvement Act
Introduced by Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA) on June 24, 2003
"The bill would have created a strong, independent regulator to oversee the companies? mission and their safety and soundness, and provided the regulator with the same authority as the bank regulators to establish risk and capital standards. It also gave the regulator authority to take corrective action including receivership authority."
...
H.R.2803 introduced on 21 July 2003 by Rep. Edward R Royce (R-CA,40).
Title: To establish the Office of Housing Finance Oversight in the Department of the Treasury to ensure the financial safety and soundness of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal home loan banks
...
S.1508, introduced 31 July 2003 by Sen Chuck Hagel (R-NE).
Title: A bill to address regulation of secondary mortgage market enterprises, and for other purposes.
....
H.R. 1461: 2005-2006 Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005 - Introduced by Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA)
To reform the regulation of certain housing-related Government-sponsored enterprises, and for other purposes.
...
McCain co-sponsored above bill in Senate as S. 190 in 2005, and said then he did it "to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole."
---------------------------------------------
On to the a few details:
on 2003 H.R. 2575 bill, NY Times reported:
"Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing."
.....
The big H.R. 1461 bill got so changed by Congress, it actually made matters worse, and was no reform at all. And not because of the poison pill. Barney don't mention that! But it is the one shining moment for Barney, as he did dutifully round up democratic votes for it and worked hard with Oxley.
Bush opposed it (as Barney said above "gave his efforts 'the one-finger salute.") because Bush wanted a stronger one passed, didn't wanna waste the resources on this one, passage of which could also forestall efforts for any strong one ("we already passed a bill to address that" you know those busy folks would say). Barney don't mention that part of the story, of course.
Bush's treasury secty urged him to compromise, Bush didn't.
but, of course, Bush didn't work real hard to pass one either -- it woulda required a major focused effort -- despite repeated strong words and warnings by him, Treasury, his econ advisors and Greenspan.
I'm sure he regrets that now!
....
And, yes, the only bill that got passed was Barney's. We saw how well that helped! It was the sort of weak, ineffectual bill Bush worried would get passed so folks could say "we did something", but as politician do, confuse that with doing something good.
way too little, way too late---long after it became obvious something had to be done, after years and years and years of numerous repeated warnings.
But good ol' Barney late as 2008, in clip here, saying Fannie & Freddie are "OK..some soundness there" in part due to his fine bill....2008! :mj07:
as I've said before, plenty of blame to go around.
But 80% of the strong warnings and words came from Republicans and thier brethren on blogs and Wall Street Journal pages, National Review, etc.
You could argue, I suppose, that since Republicans sensed the impending problem--and were in charge and passed nothing--they actually should stand more blame than the many democrats that fought against all the reform and pooh-poohed the warnings.
on equity trader's 2 points that started this thread:
I don't think Glass-Steagall should be blamed for much in this banking crisis, I wrote about it last October.
and on that mark-to-market stuff, BaselineScenario folks don't think much blame should go there either.
I don't think Glass-Steagall should be blamed for much in this banking crisis, I wrote about it last October.
and on that mark-to-market stuff, BaselineScenario folks don't think much blame should go there either.
this covers it well
this covers it well
Ritholtz, from his book "Bailout Nation":
The decision to allow Lehman Brothers to go belly up has been roundly criticized by many people as a mistake that cost AIG dearly. That turns out to be an incorrect conclusion, a classic causation versus correlation error. It is much more accurate to observe that the same factors that drove Lehman into bankruptcy also drove AIG to the brink.
It began with rates so low that everyone in the nation decided they wanted a house (and the bigger, the better). This included many people who could not afford one. So these folk applied for mortgages from a new kind of lender, one that operated with little regulation and even less supervision. These lenders were able to give loans to these people ? bad credit risks, too little income, no equity ? due to their unique business model. They could ignore traditional lending standards because they did not plan on holding these mortgages very long; They could specialize in higher commission sub-prime loans because they were ?lend?to-securitize? originators. They made higher risk loans, then flipped them to Wall Street firms, who repackaged them into complex mortgage backed securities. These same investment banks had too little capital and used too much leverage, but that didn?t stop them from buying too much of this paper from each other. It didn?t matter much anyway, since it was rated triple AAA rated by S&P and Moody?s, so there wasn?t anything to worry about. Underlying all of these transactions was the assumption that home prices in the USA never went down. Oh, and, this entire series of events took place at a time when the dominant political philosophy was that it was impossible for this to go wrong . . . the self-regulating markets, you understand, would see to that.
What bad could possibly come of that?
Indeed . . .
this covers it well
Ritholtz, from his book "Bailout Nation":
The decision to allow Lehman Brothers to go belly up has been roundly criticized by many people as a mistake that cost AIG dearly. That turns out to be an incorrect conclusion, a classic causation versus correlation error. It is much more accurate to observe that the same factors that drove Lehman into bankruptcy also drove AIG to the brink.
It began with rates so low that everyone in the nation decided they wanted a house (and the bigger, the better). This included many people who could not afford one. So these folk applied for mortgages from a new kind of lender, one that operated with little regulation and even less supervision. These lenders were able to give loans to these people ? bad credit risks, too little income, no equity ? due to their unique business model. They could ignore traditional lending standards because they did not plan on holding these mortgages very long; They could specialize in higher commission sub-prime loans because they were ?lend?to-securitize? originators. They made higher risk loans, then flipped them to Wall Street firms, who repackaged them into complex mortgage backed securities. These same investment banks had too little capital and used too much leverage, but that didn?t stop them from buying too much of this paper from each other. It didn?t matter much anyway, since it was rated triple AAA rated by S&P and Moody?s, so there wasn?t anything to worry about. Underlying all of these transactions was the assumption that home prices in the USA never went down. Oh, and, this entire series of events took place at a time when the dominant political philosophy was that it was impossible for this to go wrong . . . the self-regulating markets, you understand, would see to that.
What bad could possibly come of that?
Indeed . . .
Just adding newly discovered fact to archives--
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/29/AR2009052903403.html?hpid=topnews
Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) authored the 1991 legislation, which was requested by Wall Street. (By Lauren Victoria Burke -- Associated Press)
By Binyamin Appelbaum and Neil Irwin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, May 30, 2009
On the day before Thanksgiving in 1991, the U.S. Senate voted to vastly expand the emergency powers of the Federal Reserve.
Almost no one noticed.
The critical language was contained in a single, somewhat inscrutable sentence, and the only public explanation was offered during a final debate that began with a reminder that senators had airplanes to catch. Yet, in removing a long-standing prohibition on loans that supported financial speculation, the provision effectively allowed the Fed for the first time to lend money to Wall Street during a crisis---
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/29/AR2009052903403.html?hpid=topnews
Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) authored the 1991 legislation, which was requested by Wall Street. (By Lauren Victoria Burke -- Associated Press)
By Binyamin Appelbaum and Neil Irwin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, May 30, 2009
On the day before Thanksgiving in 1991, the U.S. Senate voted to vastly expand the emergency powers of the Federal Reserve.
Almost no one noticed.
The critical language was contained in a single, somewhat inscrutable sentence, and the only public explanation was offered during a final debate that began with a reminder that senators had airplanes to catch. Yet, in removing a long-standing prohibition on loans that supported financial speculation, the provision effectively allowed the Fed for the first time to lend money to Wall Street during a crisis---
This mess goes back to Reagan thru Clinton thru Bush 43 ....
Deregulation + FORECLOSURE PHIL GRAMM + Mr Paulston equals a complete ass fuck
Why Barack hired Geithner is beyond me trying to explain
Deregulation + FORECLOSURE PHIL GRAMM + Mr Paulston equals a complete ass fuck
Why Barack hired Geithner is beyond me trying to explain
Just adding newly discovered fact to archives--
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/29/AR2009052903403.html?hpid=topnews
Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) authored the 1991 legislation, which was requested by Wall Street. (By Lauren Victoria Burke -- Associated Press)
By Binyamin Appelbaum and Neil Irwin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, May 30, 2009
On the day before Thanksgiving in 1991, the U.S. Senate voted to vastly expand the emergency powers of the Federal Reserve.
Almost no one noticed.
The critical language was contained in a single, somewhat inscrutable sentence, and the only public explanation was offered during a final debate that began with a reminder that senators had airplanes to catch. Yet, in removing a long-standing prohibition on loans that supported financial speculation, the provision effectively allowed the Fed for the first time to lend money to Wall Street during a crisis---
very big of you to give Dodd props for adding the language to bail out AIG which you've said repeatedly that you were in favor of. I was too
:toast:
Too easy to finger Dodd ...
Gramm is in this shit deep as he was with the Enron scandal along with that "lovely" wife ...
The DERIVATIVES bullshit is the kill shot ...
Barack has taken on 20 yrs of shit that started with Reagan ....
We are fucked and anyone blaming this on Barack is really clueless
Gramm is in this shit deep as he was with the Enron scandal along with that "lovely" wife ...
The DERIVATIVES bullshit is the kill shot ...
Barack has taken on 20 yrs of shit that started with Reagan ....
We are fucked and anyone blaming this on Barack is really clueless
I agree. Even though I was and am against the bailouts of all these financial companies, I give Wayne credit for being even-minded and praising a Democrat for a change.
Kudos, Wayne. :00hour
Kosar:
how are your boys looking?
Huge Univ of Iowa fan here my entire life and we
just nailed a stud LB out of Maryland who had OSU and Texas on his list and the top LB in the state
of Michigan .... and one of the top TEs in the country has it down to Iowa/ OSU ....
Iowa is stocked with talent this year .... great offv line that is one of the best in the country ... one of the best lb corps in the country with a rock solid secondary and Stanzi is a really solid qb and Hampton and Brinson are more than solid at rb
We will lose in Columbus ... Ia has one tough ass scheudule so ii Capt Kirk gets Ia to another New Years day game I will salute him big time
how are your boys looking?
Huge Univ of Iowa fan here my entire life and we
just nailed a stud LB out of Maryland who had OSU and Texas on his list and the top LB in the state
of Michigan .... and one of the top TEs in the country has it down to Iowa/ OSU ....
Iowa is stocked with talent this year .... great offv line that is one of the best in the country ... one of the best lb corps in the country with a rock solid secondary and Stanzi is a really solid qb and Hampton and Brinson are more than solid at rb
We will lose in Columbus ... Ia has one tough ass scheudule so ii Capt Kirk gets Ia to another New Years day game I will salute him big time
I agree. Even though I was and am against the bailouts of all these financial companies, I give Wayne credit for being even-minded and praising a Democrat for a change.
Kudos, Wayne. :00hour
Thank you Matt--Just re read this enire thread and it could have been MUCH--shorter thread.
As with most- there were only about 4 people that submitted facts with references and the rest were opinions (like ones above commenting on last fact added)
--and as in most cases all the facts/references came from same side--and opinion from the other.
