How ironic....

[big joe]

How can anyone, like StevieD, look at the first taste of freedom for these folks as negative. Sure, there is looting! They don't know what to do,,but, it has to be better than the oppression that many of them known.
It's obvious, if you are against Bush, everything will be seen as negative.
I just find it hard to believe how I can watch the same reports and feel proud of what our military and leadership has done to help this country have a chance at democracy,,and yet, our very own citizens are seeing it as wrong,,I'm never going to understand the biases, I guess.
Go USA and God Bless our troops for what has been accomplished!!

 

[djv]

Big joe I agree God Bless America Bring our troops home safe. Hate to see any loss of live for our military.
Point Im makeing is can what has gone on there for 100's of years stop. These folks have long memories. They are good at killing each other. But are we there for the history of the place. No Way. Were there to look for WMD. We seemed to know where they were when war started. Now there lost again. Were there for the Black Gold. And we now have some new place for a air base or maybe two. We have many reason to be there and Saddam was one. And if we never find him. I dont think it matters The other Three reason are in good shape.

 

[StevieD]

Where did I question the looting? Sounds like a party to me! :shrug:

 

[kosar]

Great title for this thread, JRoot.


It's funny how all the johnny-come-lately humanitarian sensitive people are coming out of the woodwork sharing the joy of liberation with the Iraqi citizens. That is your main concern and always has been, the welfare of Iraqi citizens. I realize that.

It's strange that people who consistently, not capriciously, show the same level of concern for people in the good ol' USA are branded as liberal freaks. What's up with that?

***Weak or non-existent rebuttal sure to come*** " How can you compare the horrible torture and brutality of Saddam's regime to our minor problems here at home"

Anybody have any interest in what's been going on in many parts of Africa for decades? How about the terrorist factory Saudi Arabia? Or the nice, cuddly regime in Kuwait? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Obviously, it made anybody with a pulse feel good seeing the celebrations over the last few days. We're in the honeymoon phase here, of course, but it made me happy nonetheless seeing at least a few days of reveling before the real fun starts.

Sure, be happy for the Iraqi's, but at least show some evidence of intellectual honesty. You didn't care in the least about the poor, repressed Iraqi's before our government told you to and you don't care about similar situations around the world now. The latter, of course, is subject to change depending on what marching orders we receive next from Rumsfeld.

 

[dr. freeze]

actually i bet you would be surprised at the number of Americans who contribute to worldwide causes Kosar....

you seem to assume that no one cares about anyone else in the world...well, we can rejoice that ONE country is free can't we?

it doesn't necessarily mean that we assume Africa, South America, the Far East, and Middle East are not still filled with countries that go through similar things that Hussein did to his people....we still all know this...but it is nice and heartwarming to see at least one regime freed for the moment at least

dont know why we always have to push negativity to the forefront and rain on the parade

 

[PRO190]

The average US citizen can go and MAKE FOREIGN POLICY on who we should help, SORRY Kosar NOT Possible , so you come in with your "hop on the Band wagon -Johnny come lately BS" the avg citizen does care but can only accomplish SO MUCH on their own effort so WE have to get on the USA WAGON!!!

I'll say it Again, if it were pessimist like you running the SHOW the Iraqi people would still be hanging by there elbows and getting their nads ZAPPED etc etc etc>>>>>>>>

 

[TheShrimp]

I'd say for starters, let's not confuse freedom with looting and hitting pictures of Saddam with your shoe.

A lot of that country now needs food, safety, electricity, medical supplies, and water. Not having basic needs is being anything but free.

Next, they need to put a guy or a group of people in there to run Iraq. These killings of the Imams in Najaf (or Basra??? I get mixed up) are a sure sign that power struggles will now begin and the history of violence between Shiites and Sunnis and Kurds is not going to disappear. Look at the assassination attempt two weeks after we plugged Hamid Karzi (sp?) into power in Afghanistan. If anyone thinks the Kurds are going to treat their new found power with dignity and wisdom is seriously mistaken.

I'm not going to shit on people who are clearly glad that Saddam is gone but to think that means Iraq now has freedom is crazy.

I'm certainly not saying things aren't going to get better. They probably are, but there's also a lot of patting ourselves on the back right now when all we've really brought into the cities of Iraq is anarchy.

 

[dr. freeze]

"anarchy" lmao....is that the talking point now?

always have a word of the day....looting is not nearly as bad as you peopel would make it out to be...they are looting the palaces....

we had the "Wild West" which lasted for decades....they Iraqis will have a time period which will last for most for weeks where the law may reside in ones own hands...

you people are ALWAYS trying to find a negativity....the state of the people as far as food and water is concerned is probably better than it was when Saddam was in control...

negative negative negative....just freed these people from a torturous regime and still you utopians are comparing the state of the Iraqi people to your Utopia in the sky....

 

[PRO190]

Some passing anarchy is better than consistent and lasting oppression, torture , murder, rape, plunder etc etc>>>>>>>>

 

[TheShrimp]

Pardon me, Freeze, for trying to pass this off like anarchy...


By Anthony Shadid
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, April 11, 2003; Page A01


BAGHDAD, April 10 -- On the banks of the Tigris River, in an overgrown grove of apple trees and date palms, they came in rickety cars, flatbed trucks and battered taxis today to the home of a man whose very name evoked the crimes of ousted president Saddam Hussein. And in hours, fearless and ecstatic, they had lugged away the symbols of his luxurious life in a country left deprived.

Out from a warehouse went the scuba gear, racing-car tires and eight-burner stove of Ali Hassan Majeed, Hussein's cousin who is blamed for gassing Kurds in a northern Iraqi village in 1988 and was nicknamed "Chemical Ali" by his detractors. Next came the furniture for his uncompleted house, a nearby four-story stone behemoth gilded in onyx with a stone mural of the Tigris at its entrance. There was lawn fertilizer and herbicides, a red toy car and handcrafted Indian tables. Scattered about were Kuwaiti records, looted after Iraq's 1990 invasion of its neighbor.

A day after Hussein's government fell, signaling an end to three decades of ruthless Baath Party rule, Baghdad descended into lawlessness. Scenes of mayhem were repeated across a city relieved, anxious and vengeful. Hospitals and embassies were looted, as were ministries, government offices, Baath Party headquarters and homes like Majeed's in the Dora neighborhood. Ambulances were hijacked, as were public buses that ran their routes until the very moment of the government's collapse. Cars barreled the wrong way down streets deserted by traffic policemen and the party militiamen who once scrutinized drivers with a steely gaze.

Emotions -- euphoria, desperation, vindictiveness and sometimes confusion -- surged to the surface. Hussein was gone and so was every vestige of the government and bureaucracy he once represented. In a country whose government tolerated no dissent, the word uttered by many today was fawda, Arabic for disorder and chaos.

Mohammed Abboud, piling a pickup truck 10 feet high with booty, declared: "It's anarchy!"

 

[ozball]

Hijacking ambulances, buses, looting hospitals, burning the Museum of Natural History down in Basra...just a little partying really...just the people taking what's rightfully theirs

ozball

 

[TheShrimp]

You're missing the point, Ozzie. That's what freedom is, don't you know?

 

[yyz]

Kosar is actually more correct than not.

People can sit here and protest, or shake their fist, or scream to the sky with blood in their eyes. It won't change the fact that we, as a concensus, don't give a shit about the rest of the world. Hell, most of us don't give a shit about the family next door!

It looks so nice to "care" about world issues, and take a side for the cause de jour, but who really gives a fuhk? Do you, in all honesty? "We" care long enough to cleanse our own sordid souls for a moment. We seek absolution for our fat lives with a well ocrhestrated hand wringing over some nameless people in a far away land. We praise or curse our leaders, as it suits our needs.

The fact remains, you will read the paper, watch the news, and type your little tirade. Then, you will go eat, or read the sports page, or turn on ESPN. You will not think about the "situation" again, until it suits you.

I can at least admit I don't really give a shit about this crisis, other than the fact that it will cost a lot of people their lives. Even that won't affect me too much, in all reallity. That might be sad commentary, but so be it. I, like most of you, live in my own small section of the world, and am oblivious to the happenings around me that have no direct or immediate effect on me or my lifestyle.

It doesn't make you any less of a person to not give a shit, IMO, any more than it makes you a great citizen to take arms or umbridge at the current event of the time.

 

[dr. freeze]

is a little ANARCHY really so aweful???

they are looting the government....i say LET THEM LOOT....

these people had family members raped, tortured, mutilated etc. in the places they are now looting....

if i were an Iraqi...i would be feeling a little sense of retribution...maybe some of them need that to heal their wounds

 

[dr. freeze]

YYZ then thats you....i konw lots of people who give $$ supporting missionaries and causes all over the world....

you negativists speak for yourselves...not for all of America please

 

[djv]

Anarchy might be strong but fuc/// up good it is for sure. Looting is not only problem. Had 4 maybe 5 buiding that would be used by bew government set fire to over night. No military police have arrived yet. that seems strange in it's self. The local police if there are any left need help.
Yup Bunch of happy folks everyone all happy happy for them. Rip-en and tearing up pitcures of the hated one. Pissing on it to and hitting it with there shoes. Big insult over there to hit a pitcure with bottom of shoe. So now they have that liberty to do these thing just like we do here in USA. All you cats that think thats nice they can do that in Iraq. You should think the same way for here. That who ever wished can do it here and be happy happy for them. Not be angry with them. It's there right.

 

[ozball]

Freeze,

as physicians, you and I would be seen as privileged in any society...and if riots like are happening in Iraq were to break out here or in your home town...guess who's house gets raided...lots of resentment against the privileged...

How would you feel about a little looting and anarchy then?

ozball

 

[djv]

Support with a little cash and sending armys to help are miles a part. Our problem of late seems to be we send our Armys to help. Those folks there will like us at least for a year. Then for some reason we can be the bad guys again. Just like now we did help Iraqi people. Dont matter to most of the Arab world. They still hate us and would just soon we disapear. We seem to help the wrong folks some times.

 

[Hoops]

looting is not nearly as bad as you peopel would make it out to be...they are looting the palaces....

Not saying I 'know', but on what basis are you saying that? Are you there? Even Rumsfield stated things are 'a bit chaotic' right now.

 

[Turfgrass]

It's like LA after they won the NBA title.

Well, I hope its not THAT bad.