HR People, Recruiters...
- Thread starter dogface
- Start date
Clear some things up. The company contacted me via Careerbuilder when I sent my resume on their posting.
I then had several phone calls with their local HR generalist, while submitting to their online aptitude tests. Then an interview with Sales Manager, then Divison VP. Was told several months ago that they would have answer within a few days. Then following up, the decided to hold off hiring based on the year end, and the way their market has dropped. (They admit a cost saving measure for them.) HR when tellin gme of the decision to hold off, asked if she could contact me if and when they repost. I ssaid sure, who the heck knows what will happen.
She did indeed e-mail back to see if I was interested. I interviewed the next day, with the HR, and the sales manager again. Really just a touching base to see if I had interest, nothing else was really discussed. That could have been a short conference call, IMHO.
So, unless I am missing something I don't believe a recruiter was involved. With last company they placed their own ads, and did their own prospecting, and this company also places all of their ads, as she was talking to me about her ad budget when discussing expenses, and how they are reimbursed, or company card.
Maybe I am missing something??? :shrug:
I did let them know they were 15% lower, and that even with an OK vehicle allowance, I am still closer to 20% down in total opportunity and actaul cash flow. She called back and outlined at 8:30 on Thursday night their benefit structure, how they handle PTO. (Accrued 15 days after one complete year, and that is used for personal days/sick/vacation... your choice, and 2 floating holidays, so basically 17 days to use, and then accrued from there.)
Management will be calling to discuss salary on Monday. Keep fingers crossed, something is better than nothing!:0corn I may be close!
dogface
I then had several phone calls with their local HR generalist, while submitting to their online aptitude tests. Then an interview with Sales Manager, then Divison VP. Was told several months ago that they would have answer within a few days. Then following up, the decided to hold off hiring based on the year end, and the way their market has dropped. (They admit a cost saving measure for them.) HR when tellin gme of the decision to hold off, asked if she could contact me if and when they repost. I ssaid sure, who the heck knows what will happen.
She did indeed e-mail back to see if I was interested. I interviewed the next day, with the HR, and the sales manager again. Really just a touching base to see if I had interest, nothing else was really discussed. That could have been a short conference call, IMHO.
So, unless I am missing something I don't believe a recruiter was involved. With last company they placed their own ads, and did their own prospecting, and this company also places all of their ads, as she was talking to me about her ad budget when discussing expenses, and how they are reimbursed, or company card.
Maybe I am missing something??? :shrug:
I did let them know they were 15% lower, and that even with an OK vehicle allowance, I am still closer to 20% down in total opportunity and actaul cash flow. She called back and outlined at 8:30 on Thursday night their benefit structure, how they handle PTO. (Accrued 15 days after one complete year, and that is used for personal days/sick/vacation... your choice, and 2 floating holidays, so basically 17 days to use, and then accrued from there.)
Management will be calling to discuss salary on Monday. Keep fingers crossed, something is better than nothing!:0corn I may be close!
dogface
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the "recruiter" here is their local HR generalist picking up recruiting duties. a large amount of companies have their own internal/in house recruiters.
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Sorry about that Marine, when I refer to a recruiter I'm referring to someone that actually calls themself a recruiter. If you would have said "HR" then I would have thought you were talking about the HR person. Most HR people I know don't call themselves recruiters.
You and I both know there's a BIG difference between someone who is a recruiter and someone who is HR.(even if it's an in house recruiter) Recruiters aren't worried as much with the money part of it, they just want to get people staffed thus making it easier to speak with them about money. HR cares a LOT about what someone is making because they're into cost control on the salary side thus making them a little harder to talk with about money.
You and I both know there's a BIG difference between someone who is a recruiter and someone who is HR.(even if it's an in house recruiter) Recruiters aren't worried as much with the money part of it, they just want to get people staffed thus making it easier to speak with them about money. HR cares a LOT about what someone is making because they're into cost control on the salary side thus making them a little harder to talk with about money.
oh i agree layinwood. I hate HR, HR hates me.
But I always just assume that guys like dogface (no offense dogface) just use the blanket term HR when dealing with people.
When my hiring managers start telling me to do HR stuff and referring to me as HR... I start asking them to do things that our competitors do, and referring to them by the competitor's name.
I spent about 30 minutes thursday night talking to a group of people that just couldn't quite grasp the concept that recruiters aren't going to lowball them in terms of salary. Kept telling them "I DONT CARE WHAT $$$$ YOU WANT, my job is to simply document that aspect. I DO NOT CARE" and they still kept arguing with me that I should and did care. great stuff i tell ya.
But I always just assume that guys like dogface (no offense dogface) just use the blanket term HR when dealing with people.
When my hiring managers start telling me to do HR stuff and referring to me as HR... I start asking them to do things that our competitors do, and referring to them by the competitor's name.
I spent about 30 minutes thursday night talking to a group of people that just couldn't quite grasp the concept that recruiters aren't going to lowball them in terms of salary. Kept telling them "I DONT CARE WHAT $$$$ YOU WANT, my job is to simply document that aspect. I DO NOT CARE" and they still kept arguing with me that I should and did care. great stuff i tell ya.
Of course they won't lowball you in terms of salary, that's ridiculous thinking. Recruiters get a cut/percentage of the total amount don't they? What's funny (and I'm sure you've heard stories about it because it happens) is when an individual goes and seeks a job (uses a recruiter) and then both the company and the individual try to cut out the middleman (the recruiter). I imagine sometimes their can be some legal ramifications when this is done.
kneifl
Wrong.
As I have discussed in previous threads... there are different kinds of recruiters. Those that are internal to a company, and those that are 3rd party/independent.
Example:
Recruiter A works for Company Z. Company Z pays this recruiter just like any other employee they have - weekly paycheck, benefits, vacation time, etc etc. When recruiter A finds someone that gets hired, they just move on to the next position to look for someone. There is no bonus, there is no wild party. Just like any other employee of the company, they get performance reviews, etc. If the recruiter just isnt effective at finding people, they get hired. If they are effective, they get to keep their job and get a raise.
In simpler terms, it's like the cashier at Burger King. They don't get any bonus for selling a whopper or supersizing you. They just keep working for their wages.
3rd party recruiters, at let's say ManPower, or Kelly Services. They get a salary from ManPower, but company Q (who doesn't want to have their own in house recruiting) tells Manpower - hey, we will give you XX% for everyone you find for us that we hire. That third party recruiter may (and probably does) get a bonus from Manpower for every 5 hires they make or something.
Independent recruiters - are on a straight commission basis. These recruiters are typically recruiting high level people into companies and only handle 2-4 searches at a time.
These guys are straight commission.
If anyone has questions about recruiting and how it works, I will be happy to answer them.
Kneifl in all my years of recruiting I've only had it happen to me one time. I can say I wish I had it happened more. The company had to pay me a lot more money than normal. My lawyer stuck it to them, I can almost guarantee they never do it again. It's pretty easy to track so I don't think it happens as much as you would think. 99% of my clients have been with me for 10+years and I know almost everyone that matters within the companies, I guess some recruiters that have no relationships with the companies can have it happen.
Oh yeah, not all recruiters get a %. We're talking about two types of recruiters, in house recruiters and outside. In house recruiters don't get a % of what people are paid.
I agree with most a job now days is good. You say you do not own a auto and they don,t furnish one. If you take job don,t buy. Lease one and work the tax deductions for some extra cash. And unless I missed that they up-ed there pay offer. You can always work the 3 to 6 months instead of waiting a year for increase. You both will know in 3/6 months how it,s going. And you still may find something you like better in that time anyway.
Good Luck
And SPNG lets get a hit.
Good Luck
And SPNG lets get a hit.
That's what I've heard layin. 99% of the time they're pretty good about things but their are a few bad apples out there. I'm glad you stuck it to them when they tried it with you.
Yep, I'm aware of the difference between the types of recruiters (in house and outside). I was just giving one example.
kneifl
Yep, I'm aware of the difference between the types of recruiters (in house and outside). I was just giving one example.
kneifl
Update:
So, I expressed my concerns, and I did not get much more.. but I got something. I am getting an extra $1k a month for the first 3 months, then a review in the second quarter for an adjustment to my salary. (They were in a pay freeze, then the hiring freeze, so although the got the hiring freeze lifted the discussed the could not raise the salary. Could be a line, but at least they made some concessions.)
So, this got sent to me today, and then I will decide over the weekend on whether or not to accept the offer. I am ok with the increase, but more importantly am pleased they didn't come back and just say NO!
Keep the thoughts coming, dogface may soon be ending his untimely and unexpcted early retirement!!:142smilie
dogface
PS: Thanks for all of you that did have words on my behalf, and offered their advice and help! Greatly appreciated!
So, I expressed my concerns, and I did not get much more.. but I got something. I am getting an extra $1k a month for the first 3 months, then a review in the second quarter for an adjustment to my salary. (They were in a pay freeze, then the hiring freeze, so although the got the hiring freeze lifted the discussed the could not raise the salary. Could be a line, but at least they made some concessions.)
So, this got sent to me today, and then I will decide over the weekend on whether or not to accept the offer. I am ok with the increase, but more importantly am pleased they didn't come back and just say NO!
Keep the thoughts coming, dogface may soon be ending his untimely and unexpcted early retirement!!:142smilie
dogface
PS: Thanks for all of you that did have words on my behalf, and offered their advice and help! Greatly appreciated!
dog, be careful there. The original offer came on the 19th and it sounds like you plan to wait until at least the 31st to accept. Not a glowing trait for a potential new hire (unless you have some other possible offer in the works?). They conceded a salary adjustment so -- as an employer -- it would tilt me a little if the candidate said, "let me think about it over the weekend." On a Tuesday.
I know it's not your perfect job scene, but you want them to think it is if you looking for extra cheese. You could accept today and if you change your mind over the weekend, so it goes. If you win the lottery you can cancel out of it on Monday like a hotel reservation. GL to you.
Thanks, it was provided to me as the individuals will be out of town. So they mentioned to take a look and let them know on Monday.
dogface
