I am not gonna cry anymore but

[LET'S EAT!!!]

thats truly one of those inconclusive plays. theres no way you can say definitely that he did or did not catch it. truthfully, i think it shorthopped into the glove just barely. but i would rather, for the integrity of the game, that it gone into extra innings and let it get decided there. last think you want is for this to become the focal point of what has been an awesome 18 innings of baseball so far in the alcs. but what sucks is that the 1st/3rd base umps should have had a larger role in it because theyre the only ones who can see it. obviously, the home plate ump cant see it.

gman- can we ever agree on anything?...lol...dont know what replay u were looking at but YES i can clearly say he caught that ball and u say u truthfully think it shorthopped into his glove??? i can tell u that i've TIVO'd the fvck out of this play and again i dont know what replay u were looking at but i can tell u CONCLUSIVELY he caught it and it NEVER touched the ground....no dirt kicked up no nothing...ball NEVER touch the ground...glove did but ball was at least an inch up in the web off the ground...im happy cuz i had chisox and caught a break but ur mistaken my friend

 

[LET'S EAT!!!]

You have to call him "out" because it was strike three!

The dropped ball is what the "arm to the side" meant.

arm to the side means the ball was not foul tipped and that it was swung through....dropped ball signal is pointing hand towards the ground

 

[skillrules]

Lets Eat is correct, the arm extended was the ump saying it was swung at with no contact of the ball. ESPN went back on previous swings and that is what he did

 

[yyz]

You guys are right about the arm.

Did you see the press conference? What a joke! It was like the Congressional hearings! The guy was so afraid to say the wrong thing! Plus, the "daddy" of all umpires intervened on half of the questions, like some New York lawyer!

Here's what I saw, as a fat guy sitting on his couch:

Strike three.....ball tossed to the mound.....Player heading back to the dugout suddenly turns and heads to first.

Now, what made him go to first? Is there something in the umpire's demeanor that said, "he didn't call me out yet"? Something that said, "he thinks that was a dropped third strike"?

Or.....Did he decide to run, and the umpire was like a deer in the headlights: "If he's running....it must have been a dropped third strike"?????/

What is the answer, Agent Mulder?

 

[bsucards]

There is no umpire manual for signals on the MLB website, interesting


9.02
(a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgment, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decisions. (s) If there is reasonable doubt that any umpire's decision may be in conflict with the rules, the manager may appeal the decision and ask that a correct ruling be made. Such appeal shall be made only to the umpire who made the protested decision. (n\b) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it. (c) The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing. Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail. Baserunners must be alert to the possibility that the base umpire on appeal from the plate umpire may reverse the call of a ball to the call of a strike, in which event the runner is in jeopardy of being out by the catcher's throw. Also, a catcher must be alert in a base stealing situation if a ball call is reversed to a strike by the base umpire upon appeal from the plate umpire. The ball is in play on appeal on a half swing. On a half swing, if the manager comes out to argue with first or third base umpire and if after being warned he persists in arguing, he can be ejected as he is now arguing over a called ball or strike. (d) No umpire may be replaced during a game unless he is injured or becomes ill.

 

[mjplus1]

Didn't the runner initially turn towards the dugout just a bit which by rule means he gave himself up? I thought he turned just slighlty towards the dugout which is no different then turning towards second when the ball is overthrown to first. Or am I just seeing things?

 

[yyz]

At the press conf, the umpires said, "The batter is not officially "out", until he is in the dugout".

 

[theGibber1]

Didn't the runner initially turn towards the dugout just a bit which by rule means he gave himself up? I thought he turned just slighlty towards the dugout which is no different then turning towards second when the ball is overthrown to first. Or am I just seeing things?

just about to bring this up.. my understanding was that if you made a move towards the dogout, U R OUT! That was hard to watch. :cursin:

 

[Fairy Dust]

As an X umpire. I was always taught on strike three to make the signal but not to verbally say anything until the play is over. For two reasons. 1) it is embarrassing to the hitter if they strike out and then you yell out "strike three". 2) On a questionable call, you have to take the extra second to replay what you saw in your mind. In this case it is the umps judgment that the ball was not cleanly caught, and he had to make a split second decision. He did not have the luxury of drinking a 12 pack and having someone on TV replay over and over and over again. The guy is human and it was his judgment. The 1st/3rd umpires had no way of seeing that either, bcuz it was bang bang and they were 100 ft away. Personally I had the angels last night on the ML. Was I happy? NO! But as someone pointed out yesterday "once the series is tied back up at 1-1, then we start over with a 5 game series." There are still 5 games left, and the right team will win it. Even the Angels coach said that one play did not make the difference. The angels should not have had themselves in the position that a blown call or a bloop hit could cost them the game. Just venting after reading all of these threads !!! GL tonight and for the rest of the post season.

 

[Fairy Dust]

Oh, just to be clear after reading what I wrote....I was not a professional ump. High school baseball/softball and Girls college Softball. Just didn't want to be misleading.

 

[grandpa]

As an Astro fan, I can advise that the best way to stay out of trouble like this is to SCORE MORE THAN ONE RUN IN THE GAME. That way , you aren't exposed to iffy judgment calls, and you don't force your pitching staff to toss a shutout, and play mistake-free baseball.

As a fan of a team that was shutout ML-high 17 times, including 9 times with Roger Clemens on the mound, you get to appreciate the good things that accompany scoring lots of runs, making these situations moot.

Since the Angels had scratched out one run over 9 full, there is no reason to assume they wouyld have ever scored the second run which would have been required to actually win the game.

 

[Taximike]

Although it does look like the ball was caught on replay, what is it that every other catcher, infielder, and outfielder does when they catch a ball on the fly that looks like it was close to being trapped.................. they hold they're glove in the air, EVEN IF THEY KNOW THEY CAUGHT THE BALL, giving the universal, "hey look umpire, i caught that ball, so lemme know if you're gonna make a dumbfvck call so i can throw to first base" wave of the glove. Josh Paul didnt do this, which is what you get when you have a third string catcher in the game in the bottom of the ninth.

 

[pt1gard]

gman2 i thought the exact same thing last night (about wrs insisiting they caught balls) but was too lazy to write it hehe