i hope the giants don't sign warner

[AR182]

i have not been that big of a fan of warner when he was going well with the rams. i always thought his receivers were making him look good, & felt that warner threw alot of his long passes up for grabs. now, i admit that i'm no nfl scout, but that was my opinion of his deep passes.

then i read an article by paul zimmerman the other day on the sports illustrated web site that states he believes the giants will be making a big mistake by signing warner.

here is an excerpt from that article:

"I won't go too far with this, but I can assure you Giants fans out there that this would be quite a serious mistake, and let's leave it at that. Of course you won't leave it at that. What am I, nuts or something? OK, here's what my spies on the Rams tell me: Warner's hand is not right, which is why he has trouble throwing sometimes, or even gripping the ball (remember his six fumbles against the Giants last year?). He did not take kindly to his benching. "We had a guy assigned to keep Kurt away from Marc Bulger on the sidelines during games," my spy told me. If you were the Giants, would you want to take on those problems?"

i also don't like that mrs. warner is very vocal defending her husband (blaming everybody but kurt) whenever something goes wrong. that won't play well in ny/nj. the fans & the media will eat him & her alive. they won't know what hit them.


finally, i see alot of posters here & at other foums constantly blasting the giants & eli over what took place on draft day. eli is also criticized as being a spoiled brat. well, eli is not the first draftee who openly challenged the draft & he won't be the last. imo, one day the nfl draft will eventually be declared as illegal.
only time will tell, whether ny over-paid for eli. but based on his college performance, & his genes, i think history will show that eli's nfl career will be the best of the qb's drafted this year.

 

[THE KOD]

AR

nice write up.

KOD

 

[AR182]

thanks, scott

 

[Vegas Dave]

About the long passes:

I've watched him throw his deep ball and frankly I don't mind it at all. Fact of the matter is, if you have a one-on-one matchup anywhere on the field with safety out of reach then throwing the ball up for grabs is a smart play. It's virtually a completion every time simply because the receivers knows where the ball is/will be and the DB doesn't right off the bat. Especially if the QB was to underthrow the ball on purpose in a one-on-one matchup (similar to Jake Delhomme to Steve Smith) then no DB can make any sort of play whatsoever, but that's another story.

About the Giants acquiring Warner:

Alot of what the Giants are doing does not seem to make sense but money definitely clarifies this murky picture. Giants draft Manning to be the man, Coughlin talks about starting him from day one, Collins contract is pricy, so he gets cut. Problem is, they didn't sign Manning before hand. Emily Manning now has all the leverage in her pocket. She's the 1st pick overall, there's no viable quarterback to play instead of her, and she can holdout for as much money as she wants. Now the Giants see how they see what kind of lout they are dealing with, and instead of giving into her needs and shelling out the cash that she wants, they are going to try to sell the fact that they are interested in Kurt Warner so that they don't have to pay Emily as much (I believe 4bubba iterated these same points in another thread).

Regardless of my emasculations of Eli, and the financial situation of the Giants, why would they want Kurt Warner?

Even if he's healthy, and he can play, the whole state of New York will have a temper-tantrum if Eli is not playing day 1. Warner will demand a decent salary, won't be happy on the bench, and unless this team does not lose a game in September, everyone will be calling for his head. How well will he mentor a punk that he's interested in benching? This is a no-win situation for the Giants and Kurt Warner and it makes no sense to sign him.

The Giants have already cracked up Eli to be the next Elway, so stop mucking around with moot options such as Kurt Warner, sign Eli for what he wants, and get him to focus on his game.

 

[4bubba]

VD

The trouble is, how much does Eli want?

He is going to want Peyton money right off the bat.

Is he worth 100 million for 7 years, even while he is learning?

If he is making 10+ million the first year plus a 10 million signing bonus, will the Giants sit him at all?

If they do sign him for that much, they cant pay Warner.

It seems warner is only there to get other teams to offer him a "better" deal, and the Giants to threaten Manning with a veteran QB.

 

[AR182]

i think that the giants will start a veteran for the first couple of games.

if at the end of those games, they are in the thick of things, they will keep the veteran as the starter.

the giants still feel that their talent is good enough to contend.

their weakness is in the offensive line.

because of the shaky line, i would like to see gannon become the giants qb.

imo, his mobility will be better suited for the giants then warner who will be a sitting target.

 

[Vegas Dave]

4bubba,

I understand your arguments, and they are logical, but this situation deters us away from logic.

All of these first round picks are not worth what they are asking for, but in reality they are paid as if they will all meet their lofty expectations. Was Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, or Akili Smith worth the money they were paid when drafted? In hindsight, they weren't worth 1/10 of what they were paid, but they ran off to the bank anyways.

The Giants have put all their eggs in one basket, and it's too later for them to turn around and say "we want to take some of these eggs out now". That's what happens when you call this guy John Elway, trade up for him, and then cut your veteran QB.

My simple point is this. Everyone knows Manning will get the green eventually, so why not stop messing around, diffuse the situation right away and sign the guy to make sure he's in camp from Day 1.

Instead of signing Warner to try to get Manning to sign for less, give Manning the money you'd give to Warner.

If this guy is asking for Peyton-type money already then the Giants have got themselves into a serious disaster, but I would highly doubt it if he signed for as much as Peyton's last deal.

Like I said before, it really makes you appreciate the guys like Phillip Rivers and Torry Holt a lot more compared to Terrell Owens and Eli Manning. Just think what Eli's teammates are thinking of him now, and what will they be thinking if he signs for more than Peyton.

 

[4bubba]

VD

I agree. Most of the arguements are made tounge-in-cheek this time of the year.

However, I am not sure that Manning has even submitted his contract demands. As I have said before, every agent is afraid to sell his client too cheaply. They want to wait to make sure they get every penny they can. This not only makes the current client happier, but helps them get more clients next year.
If the word gets out that a agent took less than they should have, they will lose next year.

That is why the team with the number one pick in the draft has a TREMENDOUS advantage of signing their player before the draft.
Four years ago, the Falcon's were smart to trade with the Chargers a month before the draft. They had a contractual agreement when Vick was picked.
The Giants will pay for not trading with the Chargers long before the draft. What they may have saved giving to the Chargers (and they gave a lot anyway) will go toward a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH higher contract to Manning. Instead of the Giants having leverage, they gave it to Manning.

 

[Vegas Dave]

For sure. I have to say I'm impressed with some of the points that you make 4bubba, it really sheds some light on thoughts that I have not dawned upon.

Just a few points to respond:

The Giants know they've messed up in a financial sense, but if Manning has the same work ethic as his brother, and proves that he was worth the #1 pick, then whatever he signs for will be forgotten beanie babies.

Not sure if you follow other sports as much, but even with the inflating contracts in the NFL it's not as much of a concern in that sports as it is in other sports such as the NHL; which looks like it will have to stop operations for merely that issue.

On another note, I believe the Giants waited so long to get the deal done because they believed that they may be able to trade down even further (possibly Cleveland) and still draft Rivers to complete the trade. Rivers was not projected to go so high, but he seemed to be such a hot commodity on draft day, and they had concerns that he may not drop.

And lastly, for Eli Manning, its just a waiting game. He has all the balls, eggs, or marbles (whatever analogy you would like to use) in his corner, and he'll get a nice lucrative contract.

I figure as an analyst of the sport it is better for me to analyze what he does on the field more so than what he does off the field. It's simple for us to say that guys like Eli, and Kellen are pretty big whiners for holding out and not signing for what they are offered, but if me or you was placed in that situation we may have similar premium demands as these players.

 

[4bubba]

As in your first part, no one has a lock on insight. Thats what these MJ forums are for; to share ideas and information and hopefully pick up an idea from someone else that was not thought of.
That is 100 times more important during the season. Remember back prior years. No matter how much we prepare for the season, by week 5 or 6 things start slipping. There never seems to be enough time (or we get lazy) to check out all the games in depth before we put the money down. Or maybe we quick-scan the sheet and lock in on one game. Thats when its time to step back and get other opinions and ideas.


Secondly, This is the time of the year for the bettors to act like the press and look for stories. Added to the fact that we are, for the most part, working stiffs. Its hard to feel sorry for someone that gets a million dollars each week to play a GAME for 6 months.

Like most here, I cant wait for football.