i know it`s early,but i think our leaders are letting the troops down..

[gardenweasel]

i know we are very early into this mess,but i am beginning to rethink my support for the president and the powers in charge.......

we are once again fighting a politically correct war.....hamstrung by the u.n. and international opinion....

i just can`t justify sending american, british and coalition forces into a foreign country the size of california to fight a guerilla war...these bastards are using hospitals as staging grounds to launch attacks...

if bush thought saddam and the iraqi`s were gonna roll over after "shock and awe",and doesn`t have any other fall back plan other than guerilla warfare,this is going to turn into a bloodbath for us...

i pray they wake up and realize,we cannot win fighting in this manner....the iraqi`s are using every possible ploy,most of which violate the geneva convention,and could give a shit about the rules of war....

i`m not a bloodthirsty s.o.b.,but,those are our boys over there....give them the tools(which we have in abundance)to win this war....we are hated internationally anyway....i`m more worried about the troops now....we can sort the recriminations out later...

we went in...the most humane thing is to get this s-it over with as quickly as possible....get that frickin cesspool al jezeera off the frickin` air...get rid of the infrastructure....disorient and traumatize the bastards....get the people heading the hell out of the cities....

i can`t believe we sent troops in there to fight this kind of antiseptic war....anybody that has immediate family over there must be pissed and disheartened...


i know i`ll catch some heat for this in here....but,we had to expect all the propaganda stuff...we sent `em in.....saddam IS a monster....let `em win....and get `em outta there...

 

[bubbas1]

What exactly do you think we are doing wrong over there?

I believe they are doing everything possible to minimize our losses. We just cant run in with guns a blazin. Everything has to be done in a certain order and the powers that be are the only ones that know what that order is.

Maybe I misunderstood what your post was trying to say but it sounded like we should just kill everyone and sort it out later.

I dont think they ever believed that this would be a cake walk or that the iraqis would fight anywhere close to being fair. Our military is adapting very well to all the different situations.
I know that this is very frustrating for everyone involved but I believe that this war will come to a head in the next day or so and the US will unleash everything the have at the iraqis. There is no doubt what the final outcome will be. I just hope that our losses are minimal. No losses on our side would be the greatest but this is a war and that just isnt going to happen.

 

[gardenweasel]

bubbas

bubbas

i understand what you are saying....but we left al jezeera up for about 5 or 6 days.....all you have to do is hear one of their reporters at a military press conference and you know they are spewing propaganda and lies....we have the wherewithal to take them out....if saddam puts troops and tanks in a hospital,what do you do?....

people were questioning why there were so many refugees in the gulf war.....and next to none so far.....because we used more air power and artillery to clear them out.... the people in baghdad have no reason to leave.......television,telephones,infrastructure intact...to be fair,i don`t think saddam`s letting them leave....so we`ll be going into the city,won`t be able to bomb,and saddam will in essence use the iraqi people as shields.....and many,many coalition troops will die fighting street by street against soldiers dressed like civilians......i obvious don`t know any more than the average joe,but i hope our leaders planned for this eventuality...

i`m more worried about the troops,honestly,than world opinion or the iraqi`s safety...maybe that`s wrong....that`s how i feel...

 

[PRO190]

GW::

We are getting are Infantry, ArtiLL, and Mech offensive positions situated , then ART will Unleash to further concentrate the Rep guard and THEN the Gloves Come Off!!!!!!They will Bomb and Strafe the Rep guard into fragmented garbage then as the guard highttails it to the city for protection the Nasty crap of rooting them out will start;;That is if that Bastid SODOMY doesn't start tossing chemicals::::The rules of Engagement have already changed due to those Fayid deceptive Bastids::Our backs will be protected now:::

If it gets real bad with the Chems I think the MOABS will start falling from the sky:::

 

[gardenweasel]

i hope you`re right,pro

i hope you`re right,pro

no,i pray you are right.....we have to do what`s necessary...it is war....these s.o.b.`s are gonna be popping out of windows...from behind doors.....suicide bombers....every s.o.b.in that city will have the potential to kill our soldiers....and we will have no way of knowing who is who....

 

[Phanatic]

Excellent Post GW .. I agree wholeheartedly.

:clap:

 

[djv]

Hard to believe a while backwhen I was saying these things I almost got killed in here. Nice to see a bunch of the guys are seeing it the right way. This was not about if we good win a war. What the hell he has no air cover. Who controls the air wins the war. But it dont end there. I''ll say it over and over. It goes at least 1 year maybe 5 after the big guns go silent. Terror will continue. That is why I said we wanted the UN in on this deal. Not to help us win a war. We need no help. But troops from all over the world can hang around for next few years. They can get blown to shit when ever one of these guys gets a hard on and deside to kill few of our boys haveing lunch. It's not about freeing people either. When your adminastration states all he had to do to avoid all this was turn over his WMD and he could stay. Chit that tells me no one to worried about who he would have killed next. Just as long as we got those WMD's. You know Bush, Colin and Frank are right. They been killing each other off for 1000 years. So we think we know how to make them stop. How long has Israel been fighting with the Palestinians. Good Luck with this group.

 

[Blazer]

Ill

Ill

garden- Dude, we gotta long way to go. We are just setting our pieces and knocking out the little towns, beating up street gangs. The war starts in Bagdad.

There are 5 million people in Bagdad.

Imagine Chicago, Ill is Bagdad, Iraq (without St. Louis)....so far we have taken out Champaign, Springfield, and Davenport. We are currently battling in Peoria.

The battle would be Chicago. It will take a month to claim Chicago.

If this was baseball we would be in the second inning. They would have gotten one man on base in the first. We scored two runs.

This thing is far from over.

 

[gardenweasel]

thanks,phanatic

thanks,phanatic

i understand ,blazer...i hope you are right......just don`t want our boys used as political pawns....we aren`t gonna win the p.r. war with so many countries against us(if you can,check out a french newspaper)....the best way to fight the p.r. war is to win quickly....this is looking very reminiscent to viet nam....not that this will turn into another nam....god forbid......

 

[ferdville]

I think that any of us who were around for the Viet Nam fiasco feel like Gardenweasel. In most fights, the guy that is willing to fight dirty, to not play by the rules, has a big advantage. That is what is happening here now. I hope that most of you guys are correct when saying that we are just getting our pieces in order. Eventually, we are going to be forced to fire into a mosque, a hospital or a day care center if they fire first - and they will. I believe that in the general rules of war, wherever those are found, sanctuaries lose their status once they are used in a military fashion.

 

[djv]

This does not look like Nam to me. Yes they are attackeing are rear guard because we moved to fast. Thats about done now. Now they are hideing in buldings. We can blow them out of these if we need to. At least you can see them. In Nam you didn't see them most the time. And many time when you did you were to late. They were down in caves under your feet. They would pop up and shoot your ass then dissaper. These guys in Iraq may walk up to you and blow them selfs up and you. In Nam the men did it had there kids do it. In some case even Woman did it. They loved spiking the ground in Nam. When you walked over them they poped and killed you. Just plain wood spikes made from marsh trees. The one thing that could end up being like Nam here is we stay to long.

 

[ssd]

Guys:
Please don't liken this to Nam yet. We're 5 days in, we've advanced 300 miles. I understand the real fighting hasn't started yet. But, combined we've had less than 50 casualties. In Vietnam, there were 37,000+ deaths and 97,000 wounded.
We have air superiority. And finally, thanks to the Brits, we have Basra. And the people there are doing what the administration said they would do. now, we take out the tv and start sending more of our own messages out. If the citizens rise up and flush the troops out of their urban hiding spots, we would be so lucky. I hate the fact that it is looking like we're going to have to play search and destroy. Let's hope they surrender before that happens. Don't get pulled in by all the negative media. For the first two days, i was listening and watching all I could. Limit your exposeure. Christ, if you look at the NY Times front page, you'd think we're losing this conflict. They will spin anything to put a bad light on the current admin because it is Republican.
Keep your fingers crossed and keep praying for our troops. God bless them.

 

[gardenweasel]

the brits are some bad mou fous

the brits are some bad mou fous

i know i`m happy as a freakin` clam that they are there with us.......british bulldog,you ought to be proud of your boys.....tough as nails...

 

[neverteaseit]

I wouldn't say our leaders our letting our troops down. Bush is basically hands off here, he is allowing the war command to make the decisions on the battlefield. I think central command made a very very bad mistake that nearly cost them.

I will make a point for basra. Our military command left the brits high and dry in basra. They thought the town was secure and sped past leaving the brits to take up the rear. this was a grave mistake imo. Not that the brits are not doing a superb job of handling the situation but we should have never blazed a path to baghdad without cleaning the southern part of Iraq out first. This has hampered our supply lines to a certain extent. And I have to believe that sadaam's communication to the southern part of Iraq has been severly crippled. He could have countered with an offense to the north of basra and to the south of an najaf pinning our forces down and really turning this into a blood bath. basra is the second largest city in Iraq. liberating basra within the first few days of the war would have been a massive jolt for our campaign maybe saving many lifes also. I am somewhat confused by the tactics being used and hope that there is more to this picture than meets the eye. I have put my trust into military leadership before and have been fortunate. I hope all involved here are also that way.

BTW gardenweasel this will not be vietnam. Once one person is gone this campaign will end quickly. What happens after the war is where is gets a little bit foggy. extremist and so on may be a pain in the ass. but that is further down the road.

And to the BRITS and AUSSIES in southern Iraq. SALUTE!!!!

 

[hellah10]

Re: Ill

Re: Ill

If this was baseball we would be in the second inning. They would have gotten one man on base in the first. We scored two runs.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dr. freeze]

and we have the UNIT on the mound and are going up against Rick Ankiel and the St. Louis minor leaguers