i`m voting for hillary in 2008

IntenseOperator

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Those damn slick Republicans are always telling you how big government can improve your life. :mj07:

Hillary ain't going nowhere. It's nice to have goals. It's nice to dream. Then there's reality.

Her closet is FULL!

On another note....

Those Clintons burned so many bridges over these past RECENT years, they have NO base on either side of the fence.

Mr Willie that you all love so and admire, is one of her biggest downfalls.

This thread will definitely need to be pulled up later. :mj07:

No matter, the cross hairs have to focus on something. Might as well be her.
 

dawgball

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gw--I will graciously point out that Martin Luther King and John Kennedy were assasinated, and I will assume (without deeply knowing the stories behind the shooters) that they weren't left wingers pulling the trigger.
 

kosar

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IntenseOperator said:
Those Clintons burned so many bridges over these past RECENT years, they have NO base on either side of the fence.

I'd be interested in hearing how these bridges were burned? And which bridges?

As far as 'base', Bubba would win an election today and Hillary has a HUGE base. Not sure if the country will accept a woman president overall, though. Also not sure if she's the right woman to begin with.
 

ocelot

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kosar and dawg, both excellent posts.

Hillary does have a LARGE base - at least as large as all those who have voted against W in the last 2 elections. What an illogical statement IO.

And as dawg stated: Not likely that killers of 2 Kennedys and MLK would be considered left-wing.
 

kosar

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Well, assuming Oswald was the lone gunman/conspirator, etc, he was a Communist. But I highly doubt he pulled that off alone, or that it was even his idea.

Yeah, I don't think James Earl Ray was a lefty.
 

dawgball

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I don't know about you guys, but I've always been told that you should never tell a woman she has a large base.
 

smurphy

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dawgball said:
I don't know about you guys, but I've always been told that you should never tell a woman she has a large base.
:mj07: i was thinking the exact same thing.

...kinda reminds me when my friends and i were playing craps once, and this slightly bigger than average woman was rolling - and winning money for everyone - so my firend without thinking called her out loud "the table's cash cow". the fun and winning suddenly stopped.
 

IntenseOperator

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From what I understand (of course I'm probably wrong on these matters of the Left) the Clintons did little to support the Democratic candidate for the Presidency after they cleaned out the White House. Any support they did provide was a little too late. Mr Gore would most likely agree with me on this. A developing schism in the party was well on it's way. Those that wanted to move on, and those that were living in the glorious memory of cigar licker (like many here). I know it's hard to believe for many of you living this wet dream, but the Clintons are hated by many in their own party. Especially those that gave their blood,sweat, and tears from the beginning. It was a tight circle that had high hopes (and wet dreams) for the future. Billy shiet all over the expectations of his presidency in the eyes of many of these "kids". He never fulfilled the dream all had when they donated their lives to his becoming President.

If that dumb biatch had a base worth anything, she wouldn't be flipping around like a carp right now. So much for her base.

Maybe if she next became the senator for Quebec, she may have enough Liberal support to win here. :mj07:

Again, of course, I could be all wrong on what I speak.

Back to your wet dream.

Hope she is not made a martyr.

This will be more enjoyable than watching the last election returns come in. :mj07:
 

IntenseOperator

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Of course we shall be seeing all those beautiful poll numbers soon enough showing that MONSTER base of support she has.

Again, too bad for your wet dream those dopes don't vote, as usual. :mj07:
 

kosar

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I/O,

You're wrong on two key things.

1. Clinton very much wanted to help Gore in 2000 and was snubbed. The Supreme Court, Florida and everything else aside, this cost Gore the election. It was a huge misstep by Gore.

2. I agree that Hillary is changing position on some key issues, but it's not to get back any of her original(and continued) base. It's to try to start to get to enough of the moderate right voters(and centrists like myself and GW) for the 2008 election.

It might seem crazy to Hillary haters, just like it always was to Bill haters, but they have/had a huge base and Hillary's trying to make it grow. (insert cigar joke here)
 

IntenseOperator

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Thanks Kosar :)

I'll try to pay a bit more attention to this whole thing now.

That puke Dotel ended my interest in baseball :cursin:

I'm pretty sure Gore is not a big fan of Bill. I'm probably wrong.

I know Mr Stephanowhatever isn't or that other blond female that started with Bill from the start. They had a Frontline (I think) hour on the whole original Clinton crew.
 

kosar

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lol- Dotel is horrid!

Yes, some of Clinton's staff has come down against him. The ones you mentioned and Dick Morris, who was his advisor forever. That's not burning bridges though. That really doesn't, and won't, matter in the long run for Hillary. Just as it wouldn't matter to Bill if there was an election today.

You will see the same thing with W's staff in 2009. It always happens, for whatever reasons, but it's inconsequential.

On the other point, Hillary knows that she will not lose much, if any, of her core base by sliding right on a few key issues. She just won't. She has a very large contingent that would support her if she said that if she's elected in 2008 that she would propose to make us a province of Canada. She has nothing to lose and everything to gain. I'm not sure I want her as president, but she's very smart and a good politician and I wouldn't underestimate her.

And whatever you think of Bill, it's hard to deny that he also is very smart and was a brilliant politician with 8 years of experience as Prez. Not a bad consultant to have as a husband.
 

AR182

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i thought i would stick my .02 into this debate.

although hillary may get the dem. nomination, i don't think at this point she could win the election.

i say this because in the history of keeping records on these type of things nobody has ever won the election with as high as a negativity rating as hillary now has.....of course that could change.

but if her negativity rating stays the same...she will not be our next president.

also the dems.need to elect somebody from a red state...like bayh.........not another northeastern liberal.

i don'tr know if everybody is familar with joe klein...although i don't always agree with him, i like his writing.....anyway here is his take on hillary in 08.....


Hillary in 2008? No Way!

Why the former First Lady should stay in the Senate

Sunday, May. 08, 2005

I was having a fascinating conversation with a Middle East expert about the intricacies of Israel's disengagement from Gaza when I noticed the fellow growing impatient. "Enough of this," he said. "What about Hillary?" Welcome to my life. In airports, on checkout lines, at the doctor's office: "What about Hillary?" (Everywhere except in Washington, where everyone "knows" she's running.) I shrug, I try to avoid the question, I say it's too early?and it is. But you want to know too, right? So here it is. I like Senator Clinton. She has a wicked, ironic sense of humor (in private) and a great raucous belly laugh. She is smart and solid; she inspires tremendous loyalty among those who work for her. She is not quite as creative a policy thinker as her husband, but she easily masters difficult issues?her newfound grasp of military matters has impressed colleagues of both parties on the Armed Services Committee?and she is not even vaguely the left-wing harridan portrayed by the Precambrian right. I also think that a Clinton presidential candidacy in 2008 would be a disaster on many levels.

It would doubtless be a circus, a revisitation of the carnival ugliness that infested public life in the 1990s. Already there are blogs, websites and fund-raising campaigns dedicated to denigrating her. According to the New York Observer last week, these sites aren't getting much traffic?yet. But they will. I remember several conversations with Senator Clinton after her health-care plan was killed 10 years ago, and she was clearly pained?nonplussed by the quality of anger, the sheer hatred, directed against her. That experience would be a walk in the park compared to the vitriol if she ran for President. And while I'd love to see someone confront, and defeat, the free-range haters on the right, the last thing we need is a campaign that would polarize the nation even more. Indeed, we could use the exact opposite?a candidate who would inspire America's centrist majority to rise up against the extreme special interests in both parties.

Senator Clinton's supporters will say she is that candidate. And it is true that Clinton has far more leeway to run as a moderate than almost any other Democrat. Her repositioning on social issues has been overrated?she will have to do more than merely "respect" those who oppose abortion; she will have to propose creative compromises.

But Clinton is a judicious hawk on foreign policy and has learned her lessons on domestic-policy overreach. No less an expert than Newt Gingrich says, "Hillary has become one of the very few people who know what to do about health care." Still, she has some very real political limitations. She has a clenched, wary public presence, which won't work well in an electorate that prizes aw-shucks informality; she isn't a particularly warm or eloquent speaker, especially in front of large audiences. Any woman running for President will face a toughness conundrum: she will constantly have to prove her strength and be careful about showing her emotions. She won't have the luxury of, say, Bill Clinton's public sogginess. It will take a brilliant politician to create a credible feminine presidential style. So far, Senator Clinton hasn't shown the ease or creativity necessary to break the ultimate glass ceiling.

And then there is her husband, a one-man supermarket tabloid. A few weeks ago, the New York Post ran a photo of Bill Clinton leaving a local restaurant with an attractive woman, and the political-elite gossip hounds went berserk. Prominent Democrats?friends of the Clintons?were wringing their hands. "Do we really want to go through all that again?" one asked me. I don't know?should the sins of the husband be visited upon the wife? Absent any evidence, the former President should be considered guilty until proved really guilty. But there is another problem: What role would the big guy play in a Hillary Clinton Administration? Would he reform health care? Does anyone believe that a man with such a huge personality would have a less active role in her Administration than she had in his?

"You mean she can't run just because her husband was President?" a Hillary supporter yelled at me. "That is the most incredibly sexist thing I've ever heard." Yes and no. My guess is that Hillary Clinton would roll into Iowa with an incredible, Howard Dean-like head of steam in January 2008, and then the folks?yes, even the Democratic base?would give her a very close look and conclude that a Hillary presidency would be slightly dodgy. The Clinton line in 1992 was, Buy one, get one free. We've already had that co-presidency?for its full, constitutional eight years. What's more, I suspect there would be innate and appropriate populist resistance to this slouch toward monarchial democracy. There is something fundamentally un-American?and very European?about the Clintons and the Bushes trading the office every eight years, with stale, familiar corps of retainers, supporters and enemies. Bill Clinton was a good President. Hillary Clinton is a good Senator. But enough already. (And that goes for you too, Jeb.)
 

IntenseOperator

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kosar said:
I'm not sure I want her as president, but she's very smart and a good politician and I wouldn't underestimate her.

And whatever you think of Bill, it's hard to deny that he also is very smart and was a brilliant politician with 8 years of experience as Prez. Not a bad consultant to have as a husband.

I would NEVER underestimate either of them. They are phenomenol politicians. "Politicians" used as a curse word. lol

They could make millions just going on a speaking tours on politics.

She can also call in some IOU's from back in the day.

Good or bad.....
right now, at a time of war, this country will not be comfortable with a female at the helm.
 

gardenweasel

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dawg...i will graciously point out that conspiracy theories aside,nobody knows for sure except james earl ray and lee harvey oswald who was behind these assassinations.....or if anybody else was involved...

i think you were intimating that "rabid conservatives" may have been complicit in these acts..maybe i got it wrong...


if you`ve uncovered the "conservative conspiracy" behind these murders,i strongly encourage you to proceed to the proper authorities and do your civic duty...

btw....tell me hill isn`t a lightning rod....i put up an innocent little tongue in cheek thread about the new hill,and how i like her metamorphosis into a middle of the roader,and faster than you can say"whizzinater",you get 35 hits......

you gotta say she`s got juice....
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Don't think she'll get the nomintation for several reasons--in fact would say its 50/50 that she'll even run and on---

Which major issues has she flip-flopped exactly?

They say a picture is worth a thousands words and I am sure if she runs--the Rebs can't wait to replay cut of her scowling while all others were cheering--both sides--during GW's speech after 911.
Then you got her sacking the white house when she left--travel gate--misplacing legal papers--and just a few other headlines they bring up--

TAKES 40 ROOMS TO VACATION WITH HILLARY

HILLARY CLINTON'S SCANDAL LAWYER DENIES TIES TO PELLICANO; BUT THE PELICAN ONLY SAYS 'NO COMMENT'

HILLARY LEAVES JET PASSENGERS IN HOLDING PATTERN

HILLARY CLINTON RECOVERS LONG-LOST MEMORY
Cure cost only $8 million

HILLARY'S PRIVATE EYE
IN TROUBLE AGAIN

then a few things from her political past--not counting all the times She could not recall--when under oath--missing files ect

1960S - After becoming involved in politics, Wellesley graduate Hillary Rodham orders her senior thesis sealed from public view

1974 - Impeachment was evolved. . . to cope with both the inadequacy of the criminal standards and the impotence of the courts to deal with the conduct of great public figures. It would be anomalous if the framers, having barred criminal sanctions from the impeachment remedy. . . intended to restrict the grounds for impeachment to conduct that was criminal" - Hillary Rodham, Staff Attorney, House Judiciary Committee

1978 - Two months after commencing the Whitewater scam, Hillary Clinton invests $1,000 in cattle futures. Within a few days she has a $5,000 profit. Before bailing out she earns nearly $100,000 on her investment. Many years later, several economists will calculate that the chances of earning such returns legally were one in 250 million.

1980s - Hillary Clinton makes a $44,000 profit on a $2,000 investment in a cellular phone franchise deal that involves taking advantage of the FCC's preference for locals, minorities and women. The franchise is almost immediately flipped to the cellular giant, McCaw. . . Hillary Clinton quietly lobbies on behalf of the Contras and against groups and individuals opposing them.

1981 - Hillary Clinton writes Jim McDougal: "If Reagonomics works at all, Whitewater could become the Western Hemisphere's Mecca."

1985 - Mrs. Clinton is put on a $2,000 a month retainer by Madison Guaranty.. McDougal will later write in his book that the payments were in lieu of his earlier system of passing money to Bill Clinton. Ms. Clinton will later claim not to have received any retainer nor to have been deeply involved with Madison. Subsequent records show, however, that she represented Madison before the state securities department. After the revelation, she says, "For goodness sakes, you can't be a lawyer if you don't represent banks."

1993 - Hillary Clinton and David Watkins move to oust the White House travel office in favor of World Wide Travel, Clinton's source of $1 million in fly-now-pay-later campaign trips. The White House fires seven long-term employees for alleged mismanagement and kickbacks. The director, Billy Dale, charged with embezzlement, will be acquitted in less than two hours by the jury.

1993 - Less than three hours after Foster's body is found, his office is secretly searched by Clinton operatives, including Mrs. Clinton's chief of staff. Another search occurs two days later. Meanwhile, US Park Police and FBI agents are not allowed to search the office on grounds of "executive privilege."
Foster's suicide note is withheld from investigators for some 30 hours. The note is in 27 pieces with one other piece missing.

1994 - John Huang quits the Lippo Group -- with a golden parachute of around $800,000 -- and goes to work for the Commerce Department. Some believe the move is instigated by Hillary Clinton. Commerce Secretary Ron Brown orders a top secret clearance for Huang. While at Commerce, Huang visits the White House about 70 times, is briefed 37 times by the CIA, views about 500 intelligence reports, and makes 281 calls to Lippo banks.

1996 - Hillary Clinton's attempts to conceal the fact that she had $120,000 of editorial help in preparing her book-like substance. . . Hillary Clinton tells New Zealand television that she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary. At the time of Mrs. Clinton's birth, Hillary was an unknown beekeeper.

1997 - Hillary Clinton goes for her daily dose of photographic self-aggrandizement at the pediatrics ward of the Georgetown University Medical Center. She is to be pictured reading to the kids. The problem: sick children don't look that cute, especially those who are bald from cancer treatments or fitted out with tubes and such. The solution: replace the sick children with well versions belonging to the hospital staff. It works beautifully.

2002 - CARL LIMBACHER, NEWSMAX - In a surprise revelation during a Memorial Day campaign swing through upstate New York, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton announced that she used to be a duck hunter. . . The New York senator's long-secret hunting days conjured up memories of other unlikely assertions she's offered over the years, such as:

- The claim that she once tried to enlist in the Army but was turned down because she was too old.

- Her 2000 senatorial campaign metamorphosis into a Jewish New York Yankees fan.

- Her 1996 announcement that at age 49, she and President Clinton were thinking of adopting another child.

2000 - THE RAY REPORT - It is, in the independent counsel's judgment beyond peradventure, that as a matter of historical fact, Mrs. Clinton's input into the process was a significant - if not the significant - factor influencing the pace of events in the travel office firings and the ultimate decision to fire the employees. Accordingly, the independent counsel concludes that Mr. Clinton's sworn testimony that she had no input into Watkins's decision or role in the travel office firings is factually inaccurate.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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WHY HILLARY CLINTON IS IMPORTANT

1. Hillary Clinton is not a figure out of the past nor a has-been. She and Al Gore are currently the most popular candidates for president among Democrats. For all the money and effort that Lieberman, Kerry, Gephardt and the others have put into the race, they still lag HRC by 13 points or more and Gore by 33 points or more. What this means is that HRC remains a significant dark horse candidate regardless of what she says now. So who she is and what she does matters. Especially since Republicans are salivating at the thought of her running.

2. The Review's recent coverage of HRC has been slight compared to the archaic media. In fact, the article in question was 398 words long, only 97 more words than in the complaining letters. In contrast, the NY Times has written six articles totaling 5,700 words in the past week, the LA Times sent two reporters and two researchers to the Big Apple to cover the story, the Washington Post gave a detailed timeline of book sales, and NPR gave an extraordinary four minutes to a discussion of HRC's opus.

We thus have a long way to go before our coverage becomes obsessive. Further, our dossier on the Clintons has been more than matched by our archives on the Bushes, which has received more than a quarter of a million hits in the last three years.

3. The myth that the Clinton story is about sex makes about much sense as the Bush story about WMDs in Iraq. Even the impeachment story wasn't about sex but about presidential lying to prevent a fair court case for Paula Jones. The Clinton machine story was one of a never-ending list of scandals that included successful convictions of drug trafficking, racketeering, extortion, bribery, tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement, fraud, conspiracy, fraudulent loans, illegal gifts, illegal campaign contributions, money laundering, perjury, and obstruction of justice. The Clintons were basically mobbed-up politicians from one of the most corrupt states in the union and acted that way.

4. The sex angle is important primarily as a window onto the values and principles of participants. As I wrote in 1994 in 'Shadows of Hope:'

"There is sometimes a dizzying ad hoc quality to Clinton's policies. Perhaps this should be expected of a president who may be the first to have cited Machiavelli as a defense. Clinton often seems a political Don Juan whose serial affairs with economic and social programs share only the transitory passion he exhibits on their behalf." Besides if a politician lies that easily to his wife, why should I believe he'll tell me the truth?

5. It perhaps helps to know something rarely reported about the scandal that gave all the others their name. Whitewater was basically a resort land scam fifty miles from the nearest grocery store. A local TV reporter exposing it would have probably have won an Emmy. More than half of the purchasers, many of them retirees, would lose their plots thanks to the sleazy form of financing used. Two months after commencing the Whitewater deal, Hillary Clinton invested $1,000 in cattle futures. Before bailing out she earned nearly $100,000 on her investment. Many years later, several economists would calculate that the chances of earning such returns legally were one in 250 million.

5. The real Clinton story has always been available to any journalist curious enough to look into it. Several months before the 1992 convention, the Review published a list - the first in the country - of more than two dozen individuals and institutions whose connections with Clinton raised question about his candidacy. Some of this information, incidentally, came to us from liberal student activists at the University or Arkansas. Each of these connections would later figure in what became known as the Clinton scandals. It is wiser to learn and act on such information before rather than after a nominating convention.

6. The massive coverage of Hillary Clinton's book has generally ignored HRC's repeated lack of forthrightness on a variety of matters. For example, in a statement answering questions from a House investigating committee, Hillary Clinton said "I don't recall" or its equivalent 50 times. Her statement was only 42 paragraphs long.

4. In fiercely defending Clinton, liberals dissed integrity, their own political heritage, women, and set themselves up for losing the 2000 election. Missing from all the discussion of that election are some important results from the exit polling:

- 68% of voters thought Clinton would go down in history more for his scandals than for his leadership.

- 44% said that the scandals were somewhat to very important.

- 57% thought the country to be on the wrong moral track.

4. The Clinton years were disastrous for the Democratic Party, again something party members refuse to admit. At every level - from Senate to statehouse - the Democrats lost more seats during their incumbency than at any time since Grover Cleveland.

5. The Clinton administration was the warm-up band for the Bush administration. During that period, the country drastically lowered its expectations of public decency, integrity, civil liberties, and social democracy. The failure of liberals to stand up against Clinton's crypto-Republican policies foreshadowed the unwillingness of liberals to stand up against Bush in his anti-constitutional and manically belligerent acts. By the end of the Clinton years, liberal America had lost the capacity and the will to defend itself.

6. It is not the Review, but the Democratic Party that needs to put the Clintons behind them. As long as Hillary Clinton remains the best idea that Democrats have for a president, both the party and the country will remain in critical danger.
 
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